Starting Engine from a Stop

[fordtruckman2003]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. The 5.0 Coyote's oil pump is directly driven by the crankshaft, when the crankshaft stops turning during an auto start stop event the oil pressure drops to 0 until the restart commences. What extra lines would maintain oil pressure during a start stop event in an ICE engine?

Sorry, meant what is in place to keep oil from draining from top of engine with ASS. Not under pressure, but oil is where it needs to be. I assumed PB has similar system in place for starting the ICE at any time.

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[Gros Ventre]

I'd like to reiterate that my point is sudden high power from all stop. Engines have been designed for starting cold for a century. They go to idle power (normally). The autostop-start feature does not go to high power (normally). The residual oil in the bearings is just fine for that. If you want to go from all stop to a pedal to the metal start... it'd be a good idea to start the engine a few seconds before you punch it. This gives the engine a chance to put pressure on the bearing.

 

[nomarhits400]

You made a point, then argued against your point.

I’m not saying for or against it, I’m just posting something people may not know.

Unless you are accelerating at a walking pace, accelerating from a stop sign with 45+ mph limits, EV mode lasts a few feet at most from a dig.

So this is inherently subjective- but except in rare cases when I start on an incline, I can almost always get the truck's mass moving to 10-15 mph before I indeed have to initiate more throttle that triggers the ICE. This is almost without exception significantly more than "a few feet"- although I definitely would concede that in colder weather (less than 35 F say) I often don't even idle in electric until the engine/transmission is warmed up (several miles of driving).

 

[Snakebitten]

As long as I am smooth and linear with the throttle, from a dead stop, I can get the Powerboost to behave very much like an Ecoboost.
It starts ICE immediately and doesn't skip 2nd gear on the way to 3rd.

I remember early on (3 years ago) in Powerboost ownership how "clunky" the starts were. The whole indecisiveness of EV/ICE.
But both the continuous software development (6 or 7 PCM/ABS updates) and the learned technique of the pilot's right boot..... And it's very much a different truck today.

The Ecoboost drivability has always prospered from smooooooth driving. But the EV capable Ecoboost, even more so. I rather enjoy the deliberate efforts to driving it. I think it comes from being a primarily daily motorcyclist for nearly 50 years.

 

[PB2021]

It would be interesting to hear from anyone that has tested the static oil pressure by mounting a traditional gauge on PB to see the reading during EV only mode. In all the reading about this drivetrain I’ve found nothing that speaks to residual pressure one way or the other. Nothing in the mechanics of the engine would suggest differences to account for the display of “apparent” residual pressure. Absent any actual pressure you have to wonder why engineers decided there was a need to represent pressure when none exists. All that said it strikes me that this is an area ripe for a quality aftermarket bolt on solution. Retained pressure under stop start conditions would be great for the engine but in particular for the turbos.

 

[Snakebitten]

Trust me when I say if there was ANYTHING remotely suggesting that the 3.5 Ecoboost in the Powerboost was different from the 3.5 Ecoboost in the non-Powerboost, I would absolutely be willing to experiment/test for the reserve oil pressure, as you put it.

As mentioned previously, I'm amazed at the decision to go through the effort to imply that there is 15psi when the ICE is off. Especially for as long as 19 minutes in generator mode.

Having said all that, it would be the most delicious helping of crow ever, to find I'm dead wrong and that Ford hid from the 18,000 page Factory Service manual, the method they chose to keep the oil pressurized.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Trust me when I say if there was ANYTHING remotely suggesting that the 3.5 Ecoboost in the Powerboost was different from the 3.5 Ecoboost in the non-Powerboost, I would absolutely be willing to experiment/test for the reserve oil pressure, as you put it.

As mentioned previously, I'm amazed at the decision to go through the effort to imply that there is 15psi when the ICE is off. Especially for as long as 19 minutes in generator mode.

Having said all that, it would be the most delicious helping of crow ever, to find I'm dead wrong and that Ford hid from the 18,000 page Factory Service manual, the method they chose to keep the oil pressurized.

My Powerboost oil pressure drops to zero when in ICE off mode.

 

[Samson16]

I think the stresses on the PB ICE are significantly reduced by the electric motor providing instant torque at all the right moments. Brakes will last longer too I’ll wager. PB owners should have a sport mode day to remind us of just how powerful our trucks are

 

[Snakebitten]

My Powerboost oil pressure drops to zero when in ICE off mode.

Are you saying that your oil pressure gauge doesn't show sustained greater-than-0?

The oil pressure PID supports the visual gauge

 

[Gros Ventre]

Are you saying that your oil pressure gauge doesn't show sustained greater-than-0?

The oil pressure PID supports the visual gauge

Like I said, it goes to zero. Recall that this is a switched output. The switch is either on or off. It is not a pressure gauge of some kind.

 

[Snakebitten]

Like I said, it goes to zero. Recall that this is a switched output. The switch is either on or off. It is not a pressure gauge of some kind.

Yes, I'm aware that the gauge is a dummy. The pressure switch is a 7lb yes/no switch. But why would your Powerboost dash gauge read differently than other Powerboost dash gauge?

 

[scott011422]

It may not be too hard to probe the sensor. See it the key off reading is the same as ice of ev on.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Yes, I'm aware that the gauge is a dummy. The pressure switch is a 7lb yes/no switch. But why would your Powerboost dash gauge read differently than other Powerboost dash gauge?

No idea. Awhile ago, I think it was you, raised that point about a few PSI engine off... So I went and looked. My dash is a somewhat different layout than yours.

 

[Snakebitten]

It may not be too hard to probe the sensor. See it the key off reading is the same as ice of ev on.

Key off is 0 psi

The oil pressure sensor on the Powerboost/Ecoboost is the same since 2017.
It's not a pressure reading sensor, but rather a on/off yes/no open/close sensor set for 7psi

The gauge on the dash is as fake embedded animation. And that's true for the Gen13 as well.

What we have never been able to discover is what drives the oil pressure PID. Most consider it a calculated value, similar to exhaust temperature PID. There's no physical probe to measure exhaust temperature. There's no physical sensor to measure oil pressure. But the PCM absolutely reports both values.

 

[Gros Ventre]

The oil pressure sensor on the Powerboost/Ecoboost is the same since 2017.
It's not a pressure reading sensor, but rather a on/off yes/no open/close sensor set for 7psi

The gauge on the dash is as fake embedded animation. And that's true for the Gen13 as well.

What we have never been able to discover is what drives the oil pressure PID. Most consider it a calculated value, similar to exhaust temperature PID. There's no physical probe to measure exhaust temperature. There's no physical sensor to measure oil pressure. But the PCM absolutely reports both values.

It would be easy to include a solid state pressure sensor somewhere in the engine and just not make it's output available except to the software. Same for the temperature issue. The temperature can be inferred from the mixture sent into the cylinder since the peak temperature is a direct function of the chemistry.

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