You can't get there from here.

[Redskins5]

I think F-150 Prius has hit the nail on the head, I chose to go with the F-150 Hybrid for most of the exact reasons he has stated. If I just wanted the truck for day to day driving around my town and daily activities then I would look at the lightning. But the abilities of the lightning and the availability of charging stations just are not where they need to be yet for me for long hauls which I do just sometimes on a whim decide to get up and go.

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[ChasingCoral]

I think F-150 Prius has hit the nail on the head, I chose to go with the F-150 Hybrid for most of the exact reasons he has stated. If I just wanted the truck for day to day driving around my town and daily activities then I would look at the lightning. But the abilities of the lightning and the availability of charging stations just are not where they need to be yet for me for long hauls which I do just sometimes on a whim decide to get up and go.

Don't forget: the charging network you see now is the worst it will ever be. New charging stations are going online each week. EA alone plans to double its charger network by 2025. Major corridors like I-80 are next on their list as you'll see in the video below. I wouldn't be surprised to see the I-80 gap solved before Lightnings are delivered.
https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/149#images

 

[F-150 Prius]

Right,

Don't forget: New charging stations are going online each week.

Right. I wrote "things will improve a lot in the next 12-24 months" which is optimistic (we were told the same thing every year since 2012) but 2021 is not like 2019. Car makers have gone from "EVs are 1% of the market" to "EVs are do or die."

I'd like to think Ford will learn from the good and bad of the Mach-e (how to support EVs) and the Bronco (how to roll out a new model) and the arrival of the Lightning will be a great experience.

 

[UNCGrad]

Thanks, yes, I didn't intend my post to be argumentative or critical of the Lightning or opine on who should or should not buy the Lightning.

I think you brought up many good points and that is why I have not even considered an EV. I travel very frequently for my hobby of hunting dog competitions. I am in the boonies much of the time. I can have a hard time finding a top tier gas station much less a charging station. Until the charging stations are much more prevelant all over including rural locations, it's a no go for me.

 

[EaglesPDX]

In what vehicle and at what rate of charge?

Using my 283 mile range (9% battery degradation after 2+ years) Tesla using EA chargers. But a 250 mile rated Ford F150EV could do it also.

Yes cold weather and bad weather will use more energy and require more or longer charging stops but the bottom line is there is a route from SLC to DEN that is covered by fast DC chargers.

And EA is doubling its chargers and EVgo is adding another 1,200 so situation is improving.

 

[EaglesPDX]

I think the example (inevitable if driving across the country in that region) illustrates the sparse network presence.

Only in that area while others which are the more heavily traveled routes have good coverage and the system keeps growing.

To the original point of SLC to DEN in F150EV, doable now with good charger coverage on the I70 route if that was a real constraint.

 

[F-150 Prius]

Only in that area while others which are the more heavily traveled routes have good coverage and the system keeps growing.

To the original point of SLC to DEN in F150EV, doable now with good charger coverage on the I70 route if that was a real constraint.

Maybe "doable" but not something reasonable to do other than as a one-time inconvenience (which is how I've driven a Tesla.)
I've covered 20K in the last two ski seasons between California, Montana, Utah, Wyoming and Colorado in winter (electrically "flying over" Nevada, Nebraska, South Dakota, Iowa) … and the combination of EA and Tesla Supercharger networks is utterly inadequate.
Charge times are hours too slow and there's already excessive demand on charging locations either side of long stretches of desert or mountain planes and passes.
Wait times can be infuriating, and even once you're plugged in, forget 250kW (even at optimal, a Tesla absorbs 250kW for a matter of a few minutes then drops to "normal" 100-120kW so the time-saving for road trips is near zero.)

Studies of the demand for EV charging networks predict that EA and Tesla will have 40% of the network needed to meet demands by 2025 in California (the rest of the USA has a tiny fraction of the network required.)


The ICCT.org says California has 40% of the stations necessary for 2025.
https://www.capgemini.com/ says California is currently budgeting $7.5B but will need $50B to meet demand.

All that said, I'm speaking from the experience of an early adopter and someone willing to live a certain lifestyle to accommodate an EV … to an extent. But once the far better machine came along, the F-150 Hybrid, the Tesla became the obsolete technology taking up space in the garage and wasting time instead of working.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Maybe "doable" but not something reasonable to do other than as a one-time inconvenience (which is how I've driven a Tesla.)

As doable on I70 with a Ford F150EV using EA as it would be in a Tesla on I70.

In both cases, a day in the life trip with charging as needed based on speed and weather.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I think you brought up many good points and that is why I have not even considered an EV. I travel very frequently for my hobby of hunting dog competitions. I am in the boonies much of the time. I can have a hard time finding a top tier gas station much less a charging station. Until the charging stations are much more prevelant all over including rural locations, it's a no go for me.

You are asking the appropriate questions. You could use something like PlugShare to see if you could actually make it work but there are definitely some use cases that are not appropriate for a BEV.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Wait times can be infuriating,

Fortunately, I've never had to wait for a DC fast charger with my Mustang Mach E and I've heard of very few folks that have. The CCS charging network is now larger than the Tesla SuperCharger network and growing faster.

 

[TRP]

Never had to wait for DCFC. In fact, most times I've been the only car there

 

[F-150 Prius]

Fortunately, I've never had to wait for a DC fast charger with my Mustang Mach E and I've heard of very few folks that have. The CCS charging network is now larger than the Tesla SuperCharger network and growing faster.

I don't see anything suggesting the CCS network is anywhere near the size of Tesla or adding pedestals at a faster rate (across the USA or the globally.)
https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/

https://na.chargepoint.com/charge_point

Looks like about 1500 DC Fast charging.

Tesla says 25,000 globally and some sites say about 10,000 in the USA.
https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

The demand on EA's CCS is very light, but it's also a fraction of the size of Tesla's Supercharger network … when Ford, Rivian, GM and others arrive to market in 2022-2025, the estimate is the charging network will be below 40% of demand.

I'd like to think that VW, Ford, GM, Rivian and others all see the imperative to have the network ready to make the ownership experience favorable, otherwise the early adopters will complain and that will deter buyers for years.

 

[astricklin]

I don't see anything suggesting the CCS network is anywhere near the size of Tesla or adding pedestals at a faster rate (across the USA or the globally.)
https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/

https://na.chargepoint.com/charge_point

Looks like about 1500 DC Fast charging.

Tesla says 25,000 globally and some sites say about 10,000 in the USA.
https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

The demand on EA's CCS is very light, but it's also a fraction of the size of Tesla's Supercharger network … when Ford, Rivian, GM and others arrive to market in 2022-2025, the estimate is the charging network will be below 40% of demand.

I'd like to think that VW, Ford, GM, Rivian and others all see the imperative to have the network ready to make the ownership experience favorable, otherwise the early adopters will complain and that will deter buyers for years.

I feel like even more imperative than just sheer number of stations is making sure the stations are working. On top of this making sure that they connect to the vehicle and charge at the maximum rate without errors.
Then having a plug and charge solution that works across all networks.
To me the biggest complaints that I have seen from people who have used both Tesla and EA networks is that the Tesla stations just work. Drive up, plug in, charge. It's easy and there's no issues. This is not the case often times at EA stations.

 

[F-150 Prius]

I feel like even more imperative than just sheer number of stations is making sure the stations are working. On top of this making sure that they connect to the vehicle and charge at the maximum rate without errors.
Then having a plug and charge solution that works across all networks.
To me the biggest complaints that I have seen from people who have used both Tesla and EA networks is that the Tesla stations just work. Drive up, plug in, charge. It's easy and there's no issues. This is not the case often times at EA stations.

True. The Apple "it just works" appeal of Tesla (especially if you have the lifetime free option, which I have on my Model X) is a slam dunk compared to futzing around with Chargepoint or the other "networks".
But – big BUT – Ford and other car vendors have solved this by working a deal with the charging vendors. So it really is just plug-in-and-charge. If the vehicle has the latest hardware, it's possible for the charging station to recognize the vehicle and then there's no payment step, making it equal to the Tesla arrangement.
Another "but" is what you mention about operational equipment. It's become common to find some Tesla pedestals don't deliver the full 150 or 250kW and some just don't work or are physically broken (the pins can wear out or be abused.) Of course if there's more than 4 people at an 8 pedestal location, someone has to "share" power between their pedestal and another "paired" pedestat, so while the car might be willing to drink down 100kW+, the system offers up maybe 50 or 70kW.
It's also common to get to an EA station that malfunctions with one car and works with another … obviously frustrating and tedious but also an end of the road for a road trip if you don't have enough range to get to another location.
I've been there in the Tesla … arriving at a location just before a desert crossing (Winnemucca to Elko, Nevada, about 120 miles which, at 80 mph, eats up all of an 80% charge in a Model 3 Performance) only to find three out of four stations occupied, the vacant one was broken and there were two other people waiting. Fortunately the delay was only 30 minutes or so, but in freezing weather, well, it was not a great start to a 1000 mile trip … : )
I think these "early days" problems go away over the next five years, but not as soon as the next two years as the first electric trucks arrive by the tens of thousands … and people with trucks tend to want to load up and go somewhere … it's going to be a shock to the system.

 

[Brian Head Yankee]

You might be shocked to learn that private companies see the need and are jumping in now. Any of us can jump in and install charge stations.

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