You can't get there from here.

[F-150 Prius]

Unfortunately if you make a post or comment that may appear slightly negative to some of those on here regarding the Lightning or any EV they get all worked up.

They just need to settle down a bit in my opinion we are all Ford owners here there is nothing wrong with having a different opinions or thoughts on the Lightning or other EVs.

By Internet standards in my experience, this is an enjoyable civil forum and the content of the posts is focused on the topic and worth reading. There's always miscommunication and ambiguity in the written word, and yes, you have to expect a degree of bias in the nature of an owners' forum. : )

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[F-150 Prius]

If you have a 300 mile range car, assume it’s closer to 200-230 on highway and then draw a circle at 180. Your life is amazing inside that circle if you end up at home most nights.

That's how we use the Model X … my "circle" is how far we can comfortably travel with no drama and one 30 minute stop to charge and stretch the legs. That means about 250 miles starting with about 90% charge running down to about 10% with a known Supercharger at that distance (ish) then charge till the rate of charge falls below about 100kW or we have at least 20% estimated charge remaining at the intended destination. Then I drive as fast as possible, once I'm half way to the destination, the estimate will have ticked down and stabilized, then I maintain that estimated SoC the rest of the way.
So we have a circle of about 350 miles with one stop and that's as much time as I want to spend behind the wheel in one day anyway. We've also gone dozens (a hundred?) weekends without charging, just charging overnight wherever we stay.
I started my first year with the Tesla on the basis of "make no compromises to suit the car" and that worked fine, but also meant the Tesla stayed home on the weekends, especially Labor Day, etc., when the Superchargers are overcrowded (and so are the roads.)
Of course the F-150 Hybrid is now the vehicle of choice (for just about everything except parking in the city where door dings are something I want to avoid.) So my one day "circle" is pretty much infinite, but I've done about 1200 miles in a day and that's a long damn day, but it certainly gets you across the map and "buys" an extra day of playing at whatever destination we have in mind (usually Colorado or Montana in the winter … can't get there in a Tesla … : )

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

My (potentially unpopular) opinion:

The other thing to keep in mind is every vehicle is not designed for every person.

The F-150 Lightning will be perfect for (I'd imagine) >95% of truck owners. The remaining 5%, sorry, you're just going to have to wait or find another option. Or, better yet, most families have more than 1 vehicle, my second vehicle can handle any trip that the Lightning currently can't (due to infrastructure gaps).

Just because a vehicle doesn't suit a very specific route or need you want doesn't mean it's inferior, or lacking. I wouldn't go on the Nissan Leaf forums and get upset because it won't do X, Y, or Z. I just won't purchase the Leaf, instead I'd buy a vehicle that suits my needs. Same thing goes for those concerned about towing range. We don't know the official numbers, but if the towing range on the F-150 Lightning doesn't suit your needs, no problem, move along to a vehicle that will.

That being said, I'm heavily debating the SR vs ER battery. For me the SR battery will handle my commute and needs <95% of trips. I'm debating whether the $7k (or for me needing to upgrade from the Pro to an XLT with ER...so roughly $20k) upgrade worth it for me to accommodate those extra few trips? Or do I just keep an ICE in my family until my next Electric Truck purchase? When analyzed that way, it seems like a pretty simple personal choice.

I was heavily favoring the XLT ER, but the more I analyze my actual needs I might be better off with the Pro SR (with Tax Breaks...$12,500 total for my state) and sell that in 5 years and get a new one with better range and tech. The only thing I think I'll be missing is the 80a charger, which I can buy separate, and the cosmetic light bar across the front (which I might even be able to upgrade aftermarket).

 

[ChasingCoral]

I don't see anything suggesting the CCS network is anywhere near the size of Tesla or adding pedestals at a faster rate (across the USA or the globally.)
https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locate-charger/

https://na.chargepoint.com/charge_point

Looks like about 1500 DC Fast charging.

Tesla says 25,000 globally and some sites say about 10,000 in the USA.
https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

The demand on EA's CCS is very light, but it's also a fraction of the size of Tesla's Supercharger network … when Ford, Rivian, GM and others arrive to market in 2022-2025, the estimate is the charging network will be below 40% of demand.

I'd like to think that VW, Ford, GM, Rivian and others all see the imperative to have the network ready to make the ownership experience favorable, otherwise the early adopters will complain and that will deter buyers for years.

You are only including EA stations.
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ng-connector-compatible-with-more-us-stations

Both CHAdeMO and CCS have more stations (locations) than Tesla superchargers stations. However, Tesla has more chargers (more chargers per location) than either but less if you combine CHAdeMO and CCS chargers.

 

[ChasingCoral]

From what I have seen with the mach-e, plug and charge isn't working very well with the EA network. I'm sure it will get better but at least right now, I don't think I would rely on it and it seems that using the EA app is a much better experience. Also, I know with EA, you can pay a monthly fee to get a lower fee for charging. Currently there is no way to attach your charging network membership to your Ford account so you have to pay full price if using plug and charge.
For a lot of people, the charging network advantages (perceived or real) that Tesla has are a major selling point for the brand.

I think you are behind on your Mach E videos. P&C is very reliable now. The nice thing is you have the option of either P&C or the native app for the charger.

 

[sotek2345]

My (potentially unpopular) opinion:

The other thing to keep in mind is every vehicle is not designed for every person.

The F-150 Lightning will be perfect for (I'd imagine) >95% of truck owners. The remaining 5%, sorry, you're just going to have to wait or find another option. Or, better yet, most families have more than 1 vehicle, my second vehicle can handle any trip that the Lightning currently can't (due to infrastructure gaps).

Just because a vehicle doesn't suit a very specific route or need you want doesn't mean it's inferior, or lacking. I wouldn't go on the Nissan Leaf forums and get upset because it won't do X, Y, or Z. I just won't purchase the Leaf, instead I'd buy a vehicle that suits my needs. Same thing goes for those concerned about towing range. We don't know the official numbers, but if the towing range on the F-150 Lightning doesn't suit your needs, no problem, move along to a vehicle that will.

That being said, I'm heavily debating the SR vs ER battery. For me the SR battery will handle my commute and needs <95% of trips. I'm debating whether the $7k (or for me needing to upgrade from the Pro to an XLT with ER...so roughly $20k) upgrade worth it for me to accommodate those extra few trips? Or do I just keep an ICE in my family until my next Electric Truck purchase? When analyzed that way, it seems like a pretty simple personal choice.

I was heavily favoring the XLT ER, but the more I analyze my actual needs I might be better off with the Pro SR (with Tax Breaks...$12,500 total for my state) and sell that in 5 years and get a new one with better range and tech. The only thing I think I'll be missing is the 80a charger, which I can buy separate, and the cosmetic light bar across the front (which I might even be able to upgrade aftermarket).

The ER does get a ~140HP bump over the SR as well - that is not insubstantial if you car about performance.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

The ER does get a ~140HP bump over the SR as well - that is not insubstantial if you car about performance.

I've originally argued that exact same sentiment in a different thread.

However isn't some of that, if not most, also offset by the additional weight of the Battery Packs (which also lowers the payload quantity on the ER). The motors are the same too, same torque.

If the performance difference is 0-60 in 0.3sec faster, I'm not sure that's worth $20k.

Could be wrong, but that is what I've read.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I've originally argued that exact same sentiment in a different thread.

However isn't some of that, if not most, also offset by the additional weight of the Battery Packs (which also lowers the payload quantity on the ER). The motors are the same too, same torque.

If the performance difference is 0-60 in 0.3sec faster, I'm not sure that's worth $20k.

Could be wrong, but that is what I've read.

Not eve sure where you read it. Fastest non-GT Mach E is the E4X (AWD, ER) at 4.8 seconds. E4 is 5.2. It actually reverses in the RWD as the single motor can't handle the full electrical power available in the ER, so E is 5.8 sec and EX is slowest at 6.1.

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/...uct/2021/mach-e/Mustang-Mach-E-Tech-Specs.pdf

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

Not eve sure where you read it. Fastest non-GT Mach E is the E4X (AWD, ER) at 4.8 seconds. E4 is 5.2. It actually reverses in the RWD as the single motor can't handle the full electrical power available in the ER, so E is 5.8 sec and EX is slowest at 6.1.

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North America/US/product/2021/mach-e/Mustang-Mach-E-Tech-Specs.pdf

Thank you!

I read the extra battery pack weight offsets some of the additional HP. The 0.3sec I just made up as a theoretical point, as there is no data available anywhere on that. Again, is it worth an additional $20k? Maybe for some, but if you're already thinking about the Pro then it probably isn't worth spending 50% more.

Interesting, hopefully Ford releases more information soon so we can compare Apples to Apples.

 

[JPro]

I've originally argued that exact same sentiment in a different thread.

However isn't some of that, if not most, also offset by the additional weight of the Battery Packs (which also lowers the payload quantity on the ER). The motors are the same too, same torque.

If the performance difference is 0-60 in 0.3sec faster, I'm not sure that's worth $20k.

Could be wrong, but that is what I've read.

I can't remember what interview I heard it on but a Ford Engineer said the Pro SR would be about 5.0 0-60 vs 4.5 for the ER versions. That would not be worth a 20K bump for me anyway, but we will see as more information is released.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

I can't remember what interview I heard it on but a Ford Engineer said the Pro SR would be about 5.0 0-60 vs 4.5 for the ER versions. That would not be worth a 20K bump for me anyway, but we will see as more information is released.

I thought I'd heard that too, but couldn't directly quote it. Yes, 0.5 is longer than the 0.3 I guessed at but is 0.5sec for 0-60 worth $20k? No. For those that it does matter to, they probably weren't in the market for an XLT anyway.

 

[F-150 Prius]

You are only including EA stations.
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ng-connector-compatible-with-more-us-stations

Both CHAdeMO and CCS have more stations (locations) than Tesla superchargers stations. However, Tesla has more chargers (more chargers per location) than either but less if you combine CHAdeMO and CCS chargers.

If you scroll down one more paragraph, this explains how one pedestal has both chademo and ccs … is there a count that combines all the DC Fast pedestals ("outlets") to get a correct head count of available charging points?
There's still the problem that even if the pedestal offers 250kW or 350kW, the vehicles absorb those peaks for only a few minutes, meaning the total charge time from say 30% to 80% is 30+ minutes … and as EV Pickups arrive with 180kWh+ batteries … those charge times will not be shorter … all you need is two people to arrive before you and you're waiting their 30 minute charge before you start your 30 minute charge and there's no alternative to go to a different nearby location (they've got to be at least 30 minutes apart … and could well be occupied when you get there …)
p.s. I'm optimistic that the CCS count is now starting to reach a viable number … as noted in the article you chose, there's still the logistical problem that EA doesn't have road trip routes so much as just putting two pedestals in a supermarket parking lot scattered around cities.

 

[TRP]

p.s. I'm optimistic that the CCS count is now starting to reach a viable number … as noted in the article you chose, there's still the logistical problem that EA doesn't have road trip routes so much as just putting two pedestals in a supermarket parking lot scattered around cities.

I'd argue the opposite about the road trip routes, in my experience. I travel between MD and Eastern TN frequently, more than I'd like honestly. Knoxville to Baltimore. Every charge stop I make is an EA station. None of them are more than a mile off the interstate. Very convenient and all have dining options within walking distance.

Also, I've never had to wait for someone to finish charging before I could start my session. Most times I'm the only car there. There's gonna have to be a whole lot more EVs on the road before that becomes an issue I think

 

[F-150 Prius]

I'd argue the opposite about the road trip routes, in my experience. I travel between MD and Eastern TN frequently, more than I'd like honestly. Knoxville to Baltimore. Every charge stop I make is an EA station. None of them are more than a mile off the interstate. Very convenient and all have dining options within walking distance.

Also, I've never had to wait for someone to finish charging before I could start my session. Most times I'm the only car there. There's gonna have to be a whole lot more EVs on the road before that becomes an issue I think

My comments are pretty much 100% Tesla experience. I often see EA's distinctive whilte/green pedestals nearby (and they're usually empty …) I'm hoping that my next steps are a Rivian to replace one of our Teslas and a Lightning in '22 as my daily driver – neither of those decisions require EA to put in a charging network, but it would be marvelous to drive long distance in an EV without the rigamarole of Tesla today.
The route I chose for this "can't get there from here" is a path I know well and I've taken in both dead of winter in a blizzard and midday summer at 100 degrees in a Tesla Model 3. It can be done. It's kind of a fun adventure and a challenge to make the impossible possible, but after the second or third trip from Montana to Colorado or California to Illinois, the novelty is over and you just want to cover the miles without the hours of charging or slowing to 55 mph to converse power to make it to the next Supercharger.
My "worst" experience was driving west through Minnesota and South Dakota on I-80 with a strong headwind. The Tesla was using double its usual Wh/mi to keep up with traffic. I was "drafting" behind semi's doing 70 mph while the traffic streamed past us. I was struggling to get 100 miles between Superchargers. It was pathetic. And that was just a headwind (and a place where it's common to be on those plains and have those westerlies in your face.) It was that trip which set the decision to quit the Tesla and get a hybrid. Fortunately, Mr Ford obliged.

 

[TRP]

I def agree that there are holes in the midwest and western states that need to be plugged. Hopefully they make good use of the infrastructure money to build the charging world out more and in places that need it.

Tesla has the lions share of EVs on the road and their own proprietary charging network. That's why they are busy, only game in town.

I was pleasantly surprised how easy it has been to road trip the Mach E using only EA charge stations. I've, so far, not used ChargePoint, EVGo, Blink, or any other network but it's nice to have options.

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