Powerboost Overheated while Towing

[Polo08816]

It's important to recognize that if you're on the turbo's continuously, that heat rejected from the intercooler is fed directly into the inlet of the engine's radiator. This automatically raises engine coolant temperature.

Yes, that's why cooling is complicated. It's even more complicated in cars that have even more heat exchangers. One example off the top of my mind are modern BMW M cars or even the C8 Corvette. When you have heat exchangers that are not all plumbed in series, it becomes harder and harder to predict what the exact effect an aftermarket heat exchanger would provide.

Also, the temperature readouts on the dash could potentially be the output of one particular probe. I would imagine when an OEM is developing a car, they actually have probes at multiple places in the entire system to understand the temperatures and flow rates in multiple segments.

Sponsored

 

[Samson16]

The 80 in 10r80 means something important.
The 140 in 10R140 means the same thing.

Basically Torque limit

1400 ftlbs VS 800 ftlbs

Makes sense then that our 10R80 heats up more quickly than the 10R140.

 

[HammaMan]

I'm not convinced the 7.3s are flying up (and down) grades faster than F150s because of power output. I surmise they are more comfortable going up and down those grades because they will handle the same load better as far as sway goes and have better braking capability on the downhill due to the much larger and robust braking system.

Larger displacement engines have better engine braking. Turbos are great at making power on smaller displacement ala 3.5, but the 7.3 has more than double the displacement with an equal increase in its engine braking performance. Diesels have even better engine braking in the 150-200hp range with dedicated engine brakes, and electric powertrains have even better engine braking than the diesels able to brake at 400hp (while refilling the tank so to speak). It's why I'm continually championing a PHEV PB with proper cooling. It could, even with the little 70kW motor, provide 105hp of regen braking, on top of the 3.5's. Energy that's not wasted as heat, but literally recapturing that potential energy for later use.

The vehicles come from the factory for mindless drivers. For mindless driving they give you clear outlines on how to be mindless, drive 55mph. If you want more from it, you need to become an operator and understand what's going on and how to change the variables you're in command of. Factory logic of the 150 is to be quiet, not deliver optimal conditions. 10 speeds are better transmissions than the 4, 5, and 6 speeds they replaced. They need to be operated properly though as they don't yet have intelligence behind them for grades or other environmental conditions. Vehicles follow their programming logic, it's up to the person behind the wheel to bring the brain. It's like the morons on highways you see speeding up and slowing down with rolling elevation changes. Slight hill, their speed bleeds off because they haven't moved the throttle for the last 10 miles. Crest it and wow they've suddenly sped up 20mph as they come back down.

When the torque converter is locked, transmission heat is reduced. If you're letting the transmission hunt for gears as you change power demands or grades undulate, you're setting the conditions for maximum heat. A 5 speed or 6 speed whose ratios didn't allow for conditions to be met for a gear change isn't better for that, it's limited. Switch to manual mode If there's grade warnings and other signs warning of slow vehicles, etc... take over gear control and set conditions such that you're climbing at 4k RPM +/- 500 depending on the grade. Plenty of gears on hand to adjust for your speed and conditions. Not you specifically polo, just as general rules.

This with its 430hp and 10spd trans, does in fact take more brains to operate,

Than this 280hp 4spd

 

[Polo08816]

Larger displacement engines have better engine braking. Turbos are great at making power on smaller displacement ala 3.5, but the 7.3 has more than double the displacement with an equal increase in its engine braking performance. Diesels have even better engine braking in the 150-200hp range with dedicated engine brakes, and electric powertrains have even better engine braking than the diesels able to brake at 400hp (while refilling the tank so to speak). It's why I'm continually championing a PHEV PB with proper cooling. It could, even with the little 70kW motor, provide 105hp of regen braking, on top of the 3.5's. Energy that's not wasted as heat, but literally recapturing that potential energy for later use.

The vehicles come from the factory for mindless drivers. For mindless driving they give you clear outlines on how to be mindless, drive 55mph. If you want more from it, you need to become an operator and understand what's going on and how to change the variables you're in command of. Factory logic of the 150 is to be quiet, not deliver optimal conditions. 10 speeds are better transmissions than the 4, 5, and 6 speeds they replaced. They need to be operated properly though as they don't yet have intelligence behind them for grades or other environmental conditions. Vehicles follow their programming logic, it's up to the person behind the wheel to bring the brain. It's like the morons on highways you see speeding up and slowing down with rolling elevation changes. Slight hill, their speed bleeds off because they haven't moved the throttle for the last 10 miles. Crest it and wow they've suddenly sped up 20mph as they come back down.

When the torque converter is locked, transmission heat is reduced. If you're letting the transmission hunt for gears as you change power demands or grades undulate, you're setting the conditions for maximum heat. A 5 speed or 6 speed whose ratios didn't allow for conditions to be met for a gear change isn't better for that, it's limited. Switch to manual mode If there's grade warnings and other signs warning of slow vehicles, etc... take over gear control and set conditions such that you're climbing at 4k RPM +/- 500 depending on the grade. Plenty of gears on hand to adjust for your speed and conditions. Not you specifically polo, just as general rules.

This with its 430hp and 10spd trans, does in fact take more brains to operate,

Than this 280hp 4spd

Valid argument. There's far more potential for a hybrid powertrain in an HD application.

Like you said, if you have a powerful enough electric traction motor that can supply 150-300hp and a large enough battery that can sustain full output for 30-60 minutes, there's the potential to combine a big block NA V8 with that hybrid system to replace a diesel powertrain.

I think the engine and exhaust braking of an HD pickup can exceed 150-200hp.

 

[Samson16]

Won't 4500rpm sustained heat up the tranny?

 

[Samson16]

there's the potential to combine a big block NA V8 with that hybrid system to replace a diesel powertrain.

There you go. Godzilla Powerboost HD! When a high output diesel just isn't enough lol

 

[Polo08816]

Won't 4500rpm sustained heat up the tranny?

Not really - compared to an unlocked torque converter.

 

[HammaMan]

Won't 4500rpm sustained heat up the tranny?

It's not the revs creating the heat, it's the unlock of the torque converter. The higher water flow > additional heat of a locked up trans. When you see drag cars turning their converters all sorts of pretty colors, that's several hundreds of degrees generated in a few seconds.

 

[Samson16]

The higher water flow

The 10R80 has a typical transmission fluid cooler inside the radiator and an additional air cooled radiator for the ATF? Are they both liquid cooled? Is there just one and it's external and air cooled? I plead ignorance unfortunately. Perhaps I should stop posting and read up a bit lol.

 

[HammaMan]

The 10R80 has a typical transmission fluid cooler inside the radiator and an additional air cooled radiator for the ATF? Are they both liquid cooled? Is there just one and it's external and air cooled? I plead ignorance unfortunately. Perhaps I should stop posting and read up a bit lol.

Depends on the trim. Most of them only have a plate water/oil heat exchanger fed by the coolant. Raptor and police XL can divert hot oil to the front air/oil radiator for significantly better cooling. Under load the trans will always be slightly warmer than the coolant flowing through it. Plate heat exchangers are very good at heat transfer, but if the coolant is hot, the trans is hot.

In warmer climates you can just pipe the trans oil right to a front mount. The trans doesn't like cold fluid though and winter performance would suck. I haven't found anyone making a temp controlled adapter (basically just a passive thermostat) else I'd suggest it. Essentially fluid would stay in trans until 150 degrees or so before it'd start flowing to a front mount. That's pretty much how the raptor / police unit do it.

 

[Samson16]

Depends on the trim. Most of them only have a plate water/oil heat exchanger fed by the coolant. Raptor and police XL can divert hot oil to the front air/oil radiator for significantly better cooling. Under load the trans will always be slightly warmer than the coolant flowing through it. Plate heat exchangers are very good at heat transfer, but if the coolant is hot, the trans is hot.

In warmer climates you can just pipe the trans oil right to a front mount. The trans doesn't like cold fluid though and winter performance would suck. I haven't found anyone making a temp controlled adapter (basically just a passive thermostat) else I'd suggest it. Essentially fluid would stay in trans until 150 degrees or so before it'd start flowing to a front mount. That's pretty much how the raptor / police unit do it.

Thank you. My student brain heard "meh, could have been better but it's adequate."

Then as I'm doing a little research I come across this lol

 

[HammaMan]

For my needs and known future needs, I just don't like the trans temps. I'm fine with engine temp spikes up to 240 not wanting to down shift, it's just that ends up in the trans due to no direct air cooler. That should have been a given w/ the tow package IMO. Would have cost ford less than $100 for it.

Given raptor and XL-P -- they knew what was up. I'm fine with the heat of a TT motor, just don't want it in the trans cooking that fluid.

 

[Samson16]

Is there space to add one that's thermostat controlled since the police and Raptor have them?

 

[HammaMan]

Is there space to add one that's thermostat controlled since the police and Raptor have them?

You'd replace / remove the water going to the trans as well as its heat exchanger. Haven't found a direct bolt-on t-stat box with hoses yet. Oil rads come in all shapes and sizes so that wouldn't be hard to source. Need to a do a little metal fab for brackets which is pretty easy with what I consider average tools.

This is a PB and that HV rad is where the raptor aux trans goes- room below it for a trans cooler.

 

[Polo08816]

You'd replace / remove the water going to the trans as well as its heat exchanger. Haven't found a direct bolt-on t-stat box with hoses yet. Oil rads come in all shapes and sizes so that wouldn't be hard to source. Need to a do a little metal fab for brackets which is pretty easy with what I consider average tools.

This is a PB and that HV rad is where the raptor aux trans goes- room below it for a trans cooler.

Yeah, I would imagine a retrofit is going to be more complicated on a PB versus a non-PB 3.5EB.

Sponsored