Lag then Quick Acceleration from electric to gas?

[Oxford_Powerboost]

I am glad someone brought this issue up. I have noticed it turning left and right out of my neighborhood onto a busy road. There have been more than a few times that I have thought I was going to get hit for sure. I have tried to be more careful and look for bigger gaps in traffic.

It was my assumption that the lag had something to do with the angle of my tires/traction control. If the truck were to give me all it has, the computer believes that I am prone to spinning out, so it won't give me full power until the wheels are straight again. Sound crazy, I know, but I have not noticed it at a stop light going straight. Almost everyone here is talking about turning.

I don’t really note an issue, but I’m not sure if that’s because of a difference in operation or a difference in expectation. But here’s my hunch, and you can reproduce this I think in a straight line if it’s really normal operation that I think is occurring…

My theory is that people with this issue are catching the trans between 1st and 3rd gear at the same time they are asking for engine power. It seems a natural tendency to kinda roll a bit into a turn and then goose it if trying to get out in front of folks. This would mean you got up to 6-7 mph, triggering the 1-3 shift in electric mode, and then asked for a bunch more power suddenly. Now, the hybrid system has to crank the engine, stabilize fuel trims, and let the engine work. Meanwhile the transmission has to complete the 1-3 shift, reconnect the clutch that disconnects the engine from the electric motor, lock the torque converter up, and allow you to apply power to it. My theory is that you don’t notice it in a straight line because you’re more likely to just mash the throttle from a stop, commanding the engine on either immediately, or at only a few mph, thus just in first gear. If you do accelerate in a straight line electric to about 8mph and then goose it, I think you’ll find the bit of lag. With that said, it’s never been what I would call dangerous, it’s a half second to a full second for me. If I’m really doing something where a half second matters, I would’ve intentionally lighted off the engine before making the maneuver.

With that said, I do find traction control’s operation dangerously laggy, so it very well could be that, but you would see the tc light blinking

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[Aron]

Is there a way to lock it in sport mode I am so frustrated by the jump from EV to gas 1,2,3rd... it is a real huck-a-buck as my wife calls it.

As I recall, if you're in Tow mode, it doesn't engage the EV motor at all. Not quite "sport" mode, but it may achieve what you're looking for.

 

[Gros Ventre]

From my experience, the issue is that the engine controller must sense the sudden and large change in the gas pedal, then it has to start the engine, then it must power up the engine from starting idle. This takes a measurable amoung of time and lubricating oil takes time to travel down the oil galleries. My words above about a spun bearing are important, the sudden dropping of large load on the engine, if it has been in electric mode for awhile, can mean a dry crankshaft bearing at the far end of the oil gallery. If the oil film in the bearing is penetrated because of large load and contact occurs between the connecting rod and the crankshaft, you'll spin a bearing. This then will starve a bearing of oil.

 

[Oxford_Powerboost]

From my experience, the issue is that the engine controller must sense the sudden and large change in the gas pedal, then it has to start the engine, then it must power up the engine from starting idle. This takes a measurable amoung of time and lubricating oil takes time to travel down the oil galleries. My words above about a spun bearing are important, the sudden dropping of large load on the engine, if it has been in electric mode for awhile, can mean a dry crankshaft bearing at the far end of the oil gallery. If the oil film in the bearing is penetrated because of large load and contact occurs between the connecting rod and the crankshaft, you'll spin a bearing. This then will starve a bearing of oil.

I’m quite sure Ford thought of this. I have no qualms about riding electric and then hammering the gas as long as it is fully warmed up. Hybrids are not new.

 

[Just Me]

In the few times I have experienced this it had nothing to do with traction control issues. Taking off straight or turning it has happened. Taking off easily and then letting off the pedal, either because of a turn or slow traffic is when I have noticed it. Push the pedal to continue and doesn’t respond for a second or two. It’s like the truck turned off and wouldn’t respond to the gas pedal. It’s not something you prepare for and my reaction is to give it more gas or pump the pedal until it responds. I think it might be in the motor transition to/from gas to electric during that driving scenario. It hasn’t happened but a few times but that’s dangerous no matter how infrequently it happens.

 

[Gros Ventre]

The only way for Ford to have thought of this would be to put in an electric oil pump to maintain pressure in the oil system when in electric mode...

 

[Snakebitten]

Monitor your oil pressure pid.
Unlike the regular Ecoboost with start/stop, the Powerboost reports oil pressure of between 14-15psi during EV mode.

I don't know if I believe it, of course, because I'm unaware of a method of maintaining it. But oddly enough it doesn't just drop to a specific value and sit completely static, rather it fluctuates just a little.

Comparatively, while the ICE is running the pid reports similarly to the regular 3.5 Ecoboost with a range ~30psi under low load and ~65psi with load. Marginally higher by about 5-10psi than my 2018.

Regardless of whether it is fake pressure values, which would be odd, I doubt that Ford ignored the possibility of the crank journals and bearings from running dry during the brief EV periods. Hybrids have been around for a very long time, as someone else pointed out.

I'm just happy that Ford uses a method for starting the ICE other than a traditional bendix/flywheel starter! The belt assisted starter was pretty clever, as well as the clutch assisted method at the transmission.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Ford Escape Hybrids have been known to spin bearings specifically because of going to high power from electric ops. My PowerBoost shows an oil pressure of zero during electric ops.

 

[22Platinum]

It was my assumption that the lag had something to do with the angle of my tires/traction control. If the truck were to give me all it has, the computer believes that I am prone to spinning out, so it won't give me full power until the wheels are straight again. Sound crazy, I know, but I have not noticed it at a stop light going straight. Almost everyone here is talking about turning.

I just sold a 2018 Honda Accord that had 254hp routed through a 10 speed, all ICE, with an open diff.

And it had the exact same programming: if the wheel was turned and you mashed the gas it would have lit that inside wheel, so instead it gave you very little throttle; once the wheel was straightened you got all your throttle back.

Or with lighter throttle it would do the reverse, hoping to prevent OP's complaint, which caused you to instinctively lift, causing the huck-a-buck.

And in fact, if you floored it for half a second and released for half a second, and continued doing that, on the third flooring the accelerator pedal ignored you entirely and went to idle until you lifted for a few seconds.

 

[05RubiconLJ]

When it comes to the PB, Ford undoubtedly has systems in place that reduce the likelihood of your breaking something. I only landed on the reduced power/response theory being tied to traction control or even some sort of gyroscopic sensor based on the way my Tacoma dealt with traction loss. That truck would reduce power and throttle response until traction was regained (as long as all the nanny's were enabled). I am not saying that is the issue, as the more I read about the exchange of power between the hybrid drive and engine, the more that makes a ton of sense to me.

If reduced power and acceleration while turning is due to this exchange of power dynamic, theoretically, the system has enough data coming in from the cameras, GPS, and computer systems, that Ford could deactivate hybrid mode when turning. That is to say, if the blinker is on, the truck is stopped, and the GPS shows a turn is immanent (intersection, stop light, stop sign, ect), the truck remains on engine power until the turn is completed.

 

[Severdog]

I just sold a 2018 Honda Accord that had 254hp routed through a 10 speed, all ICE, with an open diff.

Heh. I just sold the exact same car to move to the F150. 2018 Accord Sport 2.0. Could do 37mpg in eco and light up the tires in sport mode. Just no place to put lumber and dogs.

 

[Mhubbardva1]

Hello, Mike!
Send us a private message with your VIN and the name and location of your local Ford dealer.
I’d be happy to see what I can do to assist. Thanks!

I have exactly the same issues with my 2021 lariat powerboost. Now my brake pedal is slow to respond or you have to step on it to engage the brakes. 16,000 miles.

 

[JJ_Tex]

I don’t really note an issue, but I’m not sure if that’s because of a difference in operation or a difference in expectation. But here’s my hunch, and you can reproduce this I think in a straight line if it’s really normal operation that I think is occurring…

If what they are describing is the same that happened to mine (4 times in 5k miles) it certainly is not a difference in expectation. Sure there are some minor oddities when driving the hybrid, but this is way different and a frightening 1-2 seconds.

Here is what mine does:
1. Stopped at a light (I cant remember if only turning, or if it has done it when going straight)
2. Light turns green and I hit the gas
3. Truck starts to move forward at ~5mph like normal
4. Give it more gas to accelerate, no response still going along at 5mph when everyone is accelerating to ~20mph.
5. Spend 1-2 seconds praying your truck will not die and respond before the person behind you plows into you.
6. Truck comes to life and acts normal like nothing ever happened. The last time I was trying to pinpoint the issue and saw traction control came on for a few seconds as the truck was accelerating.

If mine does it again, I'm going to try to pay really close attention during step 5 to figure out if the engine is on and not responding, or if the lag is attributed to the engine being off. Either way it is not normal and while infrequent it will make you change underwear in the right situation.

 

[Snakebitten]

Ford Escape Hybrids have been known to spin bearings specifically because of going to high power from electric ops. My PowerBoost shows an oil pressure of zero during electric ops.

Your oil pressure gauge doesn't have that little space above zero pressure? Admittedly the gauge cluster doesn't have a numerical value for that position, but the ODB is reporting between 14.8 & 15.4 psi at that gauge spot.

 

[Gros Ventre]

K, I'll get out my magnifying glass and look more closely... If you're seeing something that says a pressure is present, then either they put in an air bladder oil source or a small electric oil pump that kicks in when the engine stops. I put just such an oil pump into the Escape Hybrid I've owned since new in 2006. It kicks in when engine oil pressure drops below 15#. Purpose is simply to keep oil pressure on the bearings. I had had a jump from engine off to high power blending in with traffic... Heard a thump. Based on my experience in Navy Submarine Force engineering, I took a hint and put that in. The Escape Hybrid is still going strong.

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