Continuing 2kw PowerOnBoard issues.

[The Roadless Traveler]

LOL, tell us you haven't used the 7.2kW system much without saying those specific words. Mine will happily output 7.55kW of sustained output for hours.

There is zero comparison grounds from the powerboost's system and the dual alternator 2.0 system. Nothing about them are even remotely comparable.

I wish I had the 7.2kW system! But the Tremor isn't offered with a powerboost option, so no 7.2kW for me unfortunately.

Ford's reported reasoning for not offering a Tremor with Powerboost was kind of lame - “The (PowerBoost) hybrid is our horsepower and torque leader, but the 3.5L is our towing leader. For this customer we wanted to achieve a strong towing performance… the 3.5L (EcoBoost) is the sweet spot for that.”

But when you look at the towing charts, Tremor (3.5L Eco)has a maximum loaded trailer weight tow capacity of 11,000 lbs while the equivalent F150 Powerboost (Hybrid 3.5L V6 with 3.73 axle ratio) has a higher capacity at 12,300 with max trailer tow package. So go figure.

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[HammaMan]

I wish I had the 7.2kW system! But the Tremor isn't offered with a powerboost option, so no 7.2kW for me unfortunately.

Ford's reported reasoning for not offering a Tremor with Powerboost was kind of lame - “The (PowerBoost) hybrid is our horsepower and torque leader, but the 3.5L is our towing leader. For this customer we wanted to achieve a strong towing performance… the 3.5L (EcoBoost) is the sweet spot for that.”

But when you look at the towing charts, Tremor (3.5L Eco)has a maximum loaded trailer weight tow capacity of 11,000 lbs while the equivalent F150 Powerboost (Hybrid 3.5L V6 with 3.73 axle ratio) has a higher capacity at 12,300 with max trailer tow package. So go figure.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense. The only thing the max tow adds to the powerboost is the bolt sheering axles and the little hitch reinforcement bars.

Probably due to an issue with the vac's brushes. I have a 15a compound slider saw it runs on battery. It's the same thing that happens with AFI breakers.

 

[The Roadless Traveler]

Yeah, it doesn't make sense. The only thing the max tow adds to the powerboost is the bolt sheering axles and the little hitch reinforcement bars.


Probably due to an issue with the vac's brushes. I have a 15a compound slider saw it runs on battery. It's the same thing that happens with AFI breakers.

Has that bolt sheering problem finally been addressed? No problems so far....but my camper is only 5k lbs....if that's even related to the sheering problem.

 

[Snakebitten]

There are some appliances that don't play nicely with the 7.2KW generator. I haven't a clue why.

You can go trade your $$$ truck in, in disgust, and buy another truck, AND a Honda generator.

Or, you can buy a different brand hot plate/vacuum cleaner and enjoy your Powerboost.

 

[The Roadless Traveler]

Search for the post where the fella with the ProPower 2KW added his own additional inverter. I'm not saying anyone else should follow his methods, but he was bound and determined to leverage that truck for good healthy 120V electricity.

Is this the post you're referring to?

 

[Countryeemann1]

So, wanted to post an update since it's been almost 2 months.

Ford sent the pictures of the waveforms to their "expert tech" who saw no problems with the most messed up sine wave I've ever seen (I spent most of my career in power generation and electrical/electronics). Yes, their expert has deemed that's a correct sine wave and reading up to 300 Hz while not being able to run certain components is normal.

What in the actual hell...

I am absolutely speechless. First Ford... absolutely last Ford.

 

[The Roadless Traveler]

So, wanted to post an update since it's been almost 2 months.

Ford sent the pictures of the waveforms to their "expert tech" who saw no problems with the most messed up sine wave I've ever seen (I spent most of my career in power generation and electrical/electronics). Yes, their expert has deemed that's a correct sine wave and reading up to 300 Hz while not being able to run certain components is normal.

What in the actual hell...

I am absolutely speechless. First Ford... absolutely last Ford.

Wow. That is just insane.

Probably time to start filing complaints with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Once they receive enough complaints, they may open an investigation.

I just recently purchased a plug-in soft start system called ActiveStart. The plan was to plug it into my 2kW pro power outlet and plug my RV’s shore power line to the ActiveStart and have it supplement the soft start I added to my RV’s air conditioner. But it couldn’t even operate correctly because it kept giving a “Frequency Unstable Error” when plugged into ProPower. Possibly the worst inverter I’ve ever used, including ones I’ve purchased from Walmart.

 

[Countryeemann1]

Wow. That is just insane.

Probably time to start filing complaints with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Once they receive enough complaints, they may open an investigation.

I just recently purchased a plug-in soft start system called ActiveStart. The plan was to plug it into my 2kW pro power outlet and plug my RV’s shore power line to the ActiveStart and have it supplement the soft start I added to my RV’s air conditioner. But it couldn’t even operate correctly because it kept giving a “Frequency Unstable Error” when plugged into ProPower. Possibly the worst inverter I’ve ever used, including ones I’ve purchased from Walmart.

Yes, sounds like exactly the same problem. We also looked at a new truck on the Ford lot and it appeared to have the same issue.

It appears as though Ford has a large batch of these inverters with problems and is refusing to even acknowledge it. We're paying for a legal service and I think we're going to contact them. Starting to sound like grounds for a class action lawsuit.

Just amazes me that this is such an obvious problem and Ford is refusing to even acknowledge it.

 

[HammaMan]

Hate to hear continued issues with these 2.0s --- for the additional $ of this system, combined with its other features, I strongly suggest those wanting the 2.0 to just get the PB as a motor option. The 2.4kW base inverter will provide max sustained output / pure sinewave, and works in hybrid mode.

 

[Countryeemann1]

So.... wanted to post another update. After looking at the waveforms again and seeing how the thing wouldn't even budge the compressor on our little RV air conditioner, I assumed those little direction changes in the waveform wouldn't allow an AC motor to run or would, at a minimum, dramatically reduce the torque/power (mid waveform the voltage goes the wrong direction and the motor will briefly attempt to stop and change direction). So, I decided to try a circular saw. Normally you can feel the starting torque on any good circ saw. When I plugged it into the truck's inverter, no torque kick and I could keep the blade from moving with JUST THE TIP OF MY FINGER. As expected, zero torque. I'm assuming the dealer is checking the voltage (good) and possibly plugging something in to see if simply turns on and then calling it good. They probably did this at the factory also.

This whole experience has been sooooo frustrating. The (hopefully) good news is that I have another appointment at Ford this week. I'm going to show them the waveforms, hold a saw blade with my bare hands while the saw is turned on and ask that they replace this inverter.

For those of you with this package, there are obviously good ones and bad ones out there. Some of them are fine but apparently a lot of them are like ours. The last time I was at Ford I tested one on the lot and it was also faulty.

Anyhow, if they don't replace it this time, 10000% headed to legal counsel.

 

[The Roadless Traveler]

So.... wanted to post another update. After looking at the waveforms again and seeing how the thing wouldn't even budge the compressor on our little RV air conditioner, I assumed those little direction changes in the waveform wouldn't allow any synchronous AC motor to run or would, at a minimum, dramatically reduce the torque/power (mid waveform the voltage goes the wrong direction and the motor will briefly attempt to stop and change direction). So, I decided to try a circular saw. Normally you can feel the starting torque on any good circ saw. When I plugged it into the truck's inverter, no torque kick and I could keep the blade from moving with JUST THE TIP OF MY FINGER. As expected, zero torque. I'm assuming the dealer is checking the voltage (good) and possibly plugging something in to see if simply turns on and then calling it good. They probably did this at the factory also.

This whole experience has been sooooo frustrating. The (hopefully) good news is that I have another appointment at Ford this week. I'm going to show them the waveforms, hold a saw blade with my bare hands while the saw is turned on and ask that they replace this inverter.

For those of you with this package, there are obviously good ones and bad ones out there. Some of them are fine but apparently a lot of them are like ours. The last time I was at Ford I tested one on the lot and it was also faulty.

Anyhow, if they don't replace it this time, 10000% headed to legal counsel.

many of us are watching for your updates. Extremely helpful. any videos of your issue? Is it that the output voltage decreases so significantly that there’s not enough there to provide torque for the compressor and circular saw?

while my 2kW ProPower inverter can keep my RVs air conditioner’s compressor on (only need 1.1kW for that and I reduced surge by installing a micro-air easy start on the air conditioner), I have to keep my shore power setting on my RVs inverter-charger (IC) at low amps. Any higher and propowers voltage fluctuates/decreases enough that the IC has no clue what’s going on, freaks out, and trips itself rather than passing through any excess amps to charge the RVs batteries as should be the case. Ironically, my RV’s IC is also 2kW and can pull from the battery bank to run the AC with no problems. But when pulling from ProPower…..what a mess. Crazy that the 2kW ProPower is so unreliable that it is subpar to a measly 600ah 12V battery bank and the IC working together. Really disappointing. Whoever designed Ford’s 2kW ProPower needs to step up and justify some not so good performance issues. But that’ll never happen. Even just a small bit of info could go a long way here.

I’m fairly certain that the only way to get Ford’s attention on this will be a class action lawsuit, and finding the right firm willing to take Ford to task over this subtle and complex, but very important (and for ford, very profitable) issue will help. If you move forward with legal action, particularly a class action, keep us posted. I know a lot of people on this forum are watching and might even sign on.

 

[Countryeemann1]

many of us are watching for your updates. Extremely helpful. any videos of your issue? Is it that the output voltage decreases so significantly that there’s not enough there to provide torque for the compressor and circular saw?

while my 2kW ProPower inverter can keep my RVs air conditioner’s compressor on (only need 1.1kW for that and I reduced surge by installing a micro-air easy start on the air conditioner), I have to keep my shore power setting on my RVs inverter-charger (IC) at low amps. Any higher and propowers voltage fluctuates/decreases enough that the IC has no clue what’s going on, freaks out, and trips itself rather than passing through any excess amps to charge the RVs batteries as should be the case. Ironically, my RV’s IC is also 2kW and can pull from the battery bank to run the AC with no problems. But when pulling from ProPower…..what a mess. Crazy that the 2kW ProPower is so unreliable that it is subpar to a measly 600ah 12V battery bank and the IC working together. Really disappointing. Whoever designed Ford’s 2kW ProPower needs to step up and justify some not so good performance issues. But that’ll never happen. Even just a small bit of info could go a long way here.

I’m fairly certain that the only way to get Ford’s attention on this will be a class action lawsuit, and finding the right firm willing to take Ford to task over this subtle and complex, but very important (and for ford, very profitable) issue will help. If you move forward with legal action, particularly a class action, keep us posted. I know a lot of people on this forum are watching and might even sign on.

Appreciate the info and response. The voltage value itself isn't really the problem (as far as high or low), it's how it's presented. When the waveform (voltage) changes direction when it isn't supposed to, it just causes all kinds of problems and destroys the torque/power. I would love to see what your waveform looks like as yours actually starts your compressor. FYI, I picked up a cheap oscilloscope on Amazon for $25.

I can't help but wonder if Ford is trying to bury this. I supplied the waveform pics to a rep who had one of their "expert techs" look at them and they "didn't see a problem". There are only 2 options based on that response... either their expert is an idiot or they're trying to bury this issue.

We'll see what happens on this next appointment but, as you said, sounds like there's fertile ground for a class action lawsuit. That being said, hope it doesn't come to that.

So frustrating as this was THE reason I purchased this truck.

 

[The Roadless Traveler]

Appreciate the info and response. The voltage value itself isn't really the problem (as far as high or low), it's how it's presented. When the waveform (voltage) changes direction when it isn't supposed to, it just causes all kinds of problems. I would love to see what your waveform looks like as yours actually starts your compressor. FYI, I picked up a cheap oscilloscope on Amazon for $25.

I can't help but wonder if Ford is trying to bury this. I supplied the waveform pics to a rep who had one of their "expert techs" look at them and they "didn't see a problem". There are only 2 options based on that response... either their expert is an idiot or they're trying to bury this issue.

We'll see what happens on this next appointment but, as you said, sounds like there's fertile ground for a class action lawsuit. That being said, hope it doesn't come to that.

So frustrating as this was THE reason I purchased this truck.

oscilloscope was next toy on my list. Recently bought a splitter so I could measure surge to see the before/after with the soft start. On that note, I also recently bought an “Active Start” pluggable softstart (rather than hard wired) which provides a lot of great info about the power source and loads. But the one I bought couldn’t even kick in when plugged into ProPower because it would instead give a “Frequency Unstable ERROR”. Upon calling the folks at Active Start, they mentioned that they were aware of the issues with 2kW ProPower inverters would be releasing a new active start model specific for lower wattage (<= 2kW) inverters. I haven’t tried it yet but will as soon as it’s available. But in the meantime, I’ll see about an oscilloscope and will share the wave form once I have it.

 

[Countryeemann1]

oscilloscope was next toy on my list. Recently bought a splitter so I could measure surge to see the before/after with the soft start. On that note, I also recently bought an “Active Start” pluggable softstart (rather than hard wired) which provides a lot of great info about the power source and loads. But the one I bought couldn’t even kick in when plugged into ProPower because it would instead give a “Frequency Unstable ERROR”. Upon calling the folks at Active Start, they mentioned that they were aware of the issues with 2kW ProPower inverters would be releasing a new active start model specific for lower wattage (<= 2kW) inverters. I haven’t tried it yet but will as soon as it’s available. But in the meantime, I’ll see about an oscilloscope and will share the wave form once I have it.

Yeah, the frequency issues are totally expected. When the waveform does more direction changes than a normal 60 Hz sine wave, those are detected as a higher frequency. The output of my inverter typically reads 160 to 190 Hz. This is so ridiculous... lol.

 

[Polo08816]

I wish I had the 7.2kW system! But the Tremor isn't offered with a powerboost option, so no 7.2kW for me unfortunately.

Ford's reported reasoning for not offering a Tremor with Powerboost was kind of lame - “The (PowerBoost) hybrid is our horsepower and torque leader, but the 3.5L is our towing leader. For this customer we wanted to achieve a strong towing performance… the 3.5L (EcoBoost) is the sweet spot for that.”

But when you look at the towing charts, Tremor (3.5L Eco)has a maximum loaded trailer weight tow capacity of 11,000 lbs while the equivalent F150 Powerboost (Hybrid 3.5L V6 with 3.73 axle ratio) has a higher capacity at 12,300 with max trailer tow package. So go figure.

I'm not necessarily a fan of the PowerBoost powertrain, but the 3.73 rear end ratio is nice. I wish the non Powerboost 3.5EB powertrain were able to be optioned with the 3.73 rear end. I also wish the PowerBoost had the 36 gallon fuel tank - at least for the 6.5 foot bed.

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