Towing thoughts/questions

[mark180]

I was very interested in this truck and the range is going to kill the deal for me when towing. We have a 2-horse trailer that weighs ~3500 lbs empty. My wife has a Model Y Tesla with very close to the same ranges they are talking about with the F150. When towing the trailer, the range drops to less than 100 miles, and that would be if you took it to zero charge left, which nobody would want to do.

Pulling even a smaller trailer, let alone a 10,000 lb one will decrease the mileage enormously. So unless you want to spend a lot of time charging, and can figure out all your charging stations on your destination route, I would strongly recommend not purchasing this for any type of towing unless it is very close range. Pulling a camper to the mountains and back is not doable especially since there won't be any charging stations.

If you're not planning on towing anything, I think this would be a great truck to have.

Just as an FYI, the power at the charging stations is very dependent on how many other cars are charging. For example, a 250kw charging station, they advertise how fast it will charge your car; however, that 250kw is split between all the other charging cars so unless you're the only one there, don't expect to charge as fast as advertised.

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[Kev12345]

the only viable towing ev I see in the foreseeable future is the tri-motor 500 mile cybertruck. but even Tesla doesn't have pull thru superchargers built for trailer towing.

 

[vandy1981]

Just as an FYI, the power at the charging stations is very dependent on how many other cars are charging. For example, a 250kw charging station, they advertise how fast it will charge your car; however, that 250kw is split between all the other charging cars so unless you're the only one there, don't expect to charge as fast as advertised.

This is true for Tesla Superchargers but may not be true for other charging networks. Additionally, it is rare to see more than one vehicle at a time at EA stations in my part of the country. I suspect this will change rapidly as EVs become more mainstream or if Tesla-to-CCS1 adapters become widely available.

I’m also pessimistic about trailering range with the F150L but I don’t think we can be sure that the MY data will be directly applicable given differences in tuning and aerodynamics of the vehicles.

I’m looking forward to the first Rivian R1T trailering tests as I think they will be more applicable to the F150L than the MY/MX/E-Tron.

 

[vandy1981]

the only viable towing ev I see in the foreseeable future is the tri-motor 500 mile cybertruck. but even Tesla doesn't have pull thru superchargers built for trailer towing.

These specs are even more theoretical than for the F150L.

It’s probable that the first wave of electric trucks will be terrible long-haul towing vehicles, but it remains to be seen whether the CT will actually be in the first wave before it gets into consumer hands

 

[adoublee]

Truthfully, we have tested so many vehicles that I don't remember which ones don't activate, and it's not something we really document for our consortium members. It's more like anecdotal information as we are driving to the test track. Do you all think this is important and something I should be including in our reports? Not that you will be seeing the reports, but still.

I'm not sure it is even legal for brake lights to not engage at some level of deceleration in a modern vehicle, but if it is not a law it should be IMO.

 

[TRP]

Just as an FYI, the power at the charging stations is very dependent on how many other cars are charging. For example, a 250kw charging station, they advertise how fast it will charge your car; however, that 250kw is split between all the other charging cars so unless you're the only one there, don't expect to charge as fast as advertised.

I have not seen this in the EA stations I have used. Is this a Tesla thing?




Posted this before I saw that vandy posted also

 

[Kev12345]

These specs are even more theoretical than for the F150L.

It’s probable that the first wave of electric trucks will be terrible long-haul towing vehicles, but it remains to be seen whether the CT will actually be in the first wave before it gets into consumer hands

I agree we probably won't see any CT's on the road until 2023 but Tesla does not embellish range/power specs. it'll go 500 miles. when we'll see it is the ultimate question.

 

[adoublee]

I agree we probably won't see any CT's on the road until 2023 but Tesla does not embellish range/power specs. it'll go 500 miles. when we'll see it is the ultimate question.

Is it EPA that embellishes Teslas range?

https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/

 

[mark180]

I have not seen this in the EA stations I have used. Is this a Tesla thing?




Posted this before I saw that vandy posted also

We've just noticed, the more cars that are charging, the slower it charges. I'm not sure exactly what the distribution is. For example, we were charging at a 250kw yesterday and it charged around 80kw when less than 80%. There were 6 other cars plugged in at the time and the kw fluctuated greatly. Not sure if other cars were active or inactive charging. I've yet to see any of the charging stations charge to their advertised KW

 

[vandy1981]

Is it EPA that embellishes Teslas range?

https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/

Ford and Porsche are the only ones on that list that underpromise and overdeliver.

Tesla is many great things, but their M.O. is to overpromise and underdeliver for range, MSRP and delivery date.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if they deliver on the CT as promised.

 

[mark180]

These specs are even more theoretical than for the F150L.

It’s probable that the first wave of electric trucks will be terrible long-haul towing vehicles, but it remains to be seen whether the CT will actually be in the first wave before it gets into consumer hands

I don't think we're going to see any viable EV's in regards to towing until we start seeing 300kwh battery packs.

 

[Kev12345]

I don't think we're going to see any viable EV's in regards to towing until we start seeing 300kwh battery packs.

You’re probably correct. 2040 it is!

 

[Kev12345]

Is it EPA that embellishes Teslas range?

https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/

I guess so. they still have longer ranges than any of their competitors.

 

[EaglesPDX]

they advertise how fast it will charge your car; however, that 250kw is split between all the other charging cars so unless you're the only one there, don't expect to charge as fast as advertised.

With Tesla every two chargers share a circuit so 250kW would be 125 kWh (500 miles an hour of charging) if two cars with equal power draw where to start charging.

EA's do not share circuit so each charger is good for rated charging, typically 3 x 150kW and 1 x 350kW in four charger stations.

On towing, I plan to tow a 5k boat 100 miles each way. The 300 mile range, I expect to get 100 miles driving 55 mph. I have chargers roughly midway if that proves optimistic. I think 60% tow duration is reasonable.

On tow days, charging to 100% and running down to below 10% would be acceptable.

 

[rtw819]

Truthfully, we have tested so many vehicles that I don't remember which ones don't activate, and it's not something we really document for our consortium members. It's more like anecdotal information as we are driving to the test track. Do you all think this is important and something I should be including in our reports? Not that you will be seeing the reports, but still.

I suppose it might depend on what your reports are pertaining to? If the reports are primarily battery/charging/range focused (and not generalized about the vehicle features/capabilities/etc.), probably not?

Either way, generally speaking, it would be interesting to see which manufacturers/vehicles use something like an accelerometer or other method for appropriately applied braking indications with regen.

Sorry for going slightly off topic here for a moment, but in reading this stuff about regen I recalled somewhere on another forum years ago where there was a posting about regenerative braking indication requirements and I thought the source was pretty bizarre, so I saved it. Of all things, it was outlined in a document coming out of the United Nations International Regulations for passenger auto braking under Regulation 13-H, sections 5.2.22.x and 5.2.23.x of the code. Since this regulation/guidance is from the UN (though maybe just used in the EU?), it is difficult to say if (or how) it applies or might be adopted by the various manufacturers around the world.

For whatever it's worth I've included a link to the latest (2018) revision I was able to find here: R013hr4e.pdf (unece.org) and snagged some of the text:

Emergency Braking / ABS:

Interesting, no? I have to wonder how much the regen is affected (increased?) while towing, factoring in trailer brakes.

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