Possible to charge from outlet?

[Brad Hills]

Do I dare ask this? Has anyone thought of a way to charge the lithium battery while parked in the garage? ?

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[blkZ28spt]

No.

 

[Snakebitten]

It's tiny by Hybrid standards. If you could charge it, what would you gain? Just curious.

 

[Brad Hills]

It's tiny by Hybrid standards. If you could charge it, what would you gain? Just curious.

Just for fun.

 

[Snakebitten]

Good answer!

 

[F-150 Prius]

thought? yes
possible? no … at least not easily and nowhere near worth the cost of the work involved to make it happen … but … if someone wanted to add 10 kWh or 30 or 50 kWh and a plug-in circuit even at L1 or L2 (simple J1772 connector, maybe 10 to 80 miles added per hour … round numbers) then I think the humble F-150 Hybrid becomes a game-changer … not to fail to acknowledge the F-150 Hybrid is already a monumental game changer – but Ford could not bring a game-changer PHEV to upstage the Lightning … so we get a nobbled neddy – a race horse on a rope.
The F-150 Hybrid "battery" is more of a buffer more than a battery … this a one mile buffer to allow the engine to avoid various inefficient situations. The motor is a simple 7.5 kW … it could have been 75kW … it could have been enough to drive the whole vehicle. That's already in the Lincoln Aviator. The F-150 is not like a "plug-in hybrid" designed to go 20+ miles without ever starting the engine in the first place. The F-150 battery is 1.5 kWh … about the same as the 12V battery powering the starter motor of any normal truck. compared to a 100 kWh battery neatly packed in the floor of a much smaller Tesla, Ford has chosen a laughably small capacity … and I suspect (accuse) them of making the Hybrid as weak as possible to "take a dive in the third" so the Lightning can sparkle and shine. The complexity of the F-150 Hybrid battery suggests it was designed to be much larger (30 or 50 times the capacity) and the complexity of the Hybrid engine (one motor as a starter motor, one motor as a generator, one motor as a traction motor) suggests this was a prototype somewhere in the middle of research and development (presumably R&D of the F-150 Lightning) that was abruptly taken out of R&D and put into production engineering (presumably to test market reception to a Hybrid pickup as a precursor to gauging market demand for an electric pickup.) While it's a hodgepodge of "ready, fire, aim" the Hybrid did prove people want pickups to be electric.
Once Ford sells a lot of Lightnings to the "first kid on the block" early adopters, I think they'll quietly offer options on the F-150 Hybrid for a much larger battery and maybe a "shore line" … to allow it to offer power to a house through a grid transfer switch (with it can do today to some extent … but it can't automatically start the engine to respond to a power outage) and to be charged from the house power/grid.

 

[dhrandy]

No, it's not a plug-in hybrid.

Hybrids - no way to charge.
Plug-in Hybrid - Plug in to charge, runs off battery until out and then switches to motor. At that point you are in hybrid mode.
Full Electric - You have to plug in to charge. You do have regen coasting and braking.

 

[Brad Hills]

thought? yes
possible? no … at least not easily and nowhere near worth the cost of the work involved to make it happen … but … if someone wanted to add 10 kWh or 30 or 50 kWh and a plug-in circuit even at L1 or L2 (simple J1772 connector, maybe 10 to 80 miles added per hour … round numbers) then I think the humble F-150 Hybrid becomes a game-changer … not to fail to acknowledge the F-150 Hybrid is already a monumental game changer – but Ford could not bring a game-changer PHEV to upstage the Lightning … so we get a nobbled neddy – a race horse on a rope.
The F-150 Hybrid "battery" is more of a buffer more than a battery … this a one mile buffer to allow the engine to avoid various inefficient situations. The motor is a simple 7.5 kW … it could have been 75kW … it could have been enough to drive the whole vehicle. That's already in the Lincoln Aviator. The F-150 is not like a "plug-in hybrid" designed to go 20+ miles without ever starting the engine in the first place. The F-150 battery is 1.5 kWh … about the same as the 12V battery powering the starter motor of any normal truck. compared to a 100 kWh battery neatly packed in the floor of a much smaller Tesla, Ford has chosen a laughably small capacity … and I suspect (accuse) them of making the Hybrid as weak as possible to "take a dive in the third" so the Lightning can sparkle and shine. The complexity of the F-150 Hybrid battery suggests it was designed to be much larger (30 or 50 times the capacity) and the complexity of the Hybrid engine (one motor as a starter motor, one motor as a generator, one motor as a traction motor) suggests this was a prototype somewhere in the middle of research and development (presumably R&D of the F-150 Lightning) that was abruptly taken out of R&D and put into production engineering (presumably to test market reception to a Hybrid pickup as a precursor to gauging market demand for an electric pickup.) While it's a hodgepodge of "ready, fire, aim" the Hybrid did prove people want pickups to be electric.
Once Ford sells a lot of Lightnings to the "first kid on the block" early adopters, I think they'll quietly offer options on the F-150 Hybrid for a much larger battery and maybe a "shore line" … to allow it to offer power to a house through a grid transfer switch (with it can do today to some extent … but it can't automatically start the engine to respond to a power outage) and to be charged from the house power/grid.

Thanks! Very helpful response. I should not be so picky. Coming down a long canyon, cruise set on 60, we averaged 33 mpg.

 

[Snakebitten]

thought? yes
possible? no … at least not easily and nowhere near worth the cost of the work involved to make it happen … but … if someone wanted to add 10 kWh or 30 or 50 kWh and a plug-in circuit even at L1 or L2 (simple J1772 connector, maybe 10 to 80 miles added per hour … round numbers) then I think the humble F-150 Hybrid becomes a game-changer … not to fail to acknowledge the F-150 Hybrid is already a monumental game changer – but Ford could not bring a game-changer PHEV to upstage the Lightning … so we get a nobbled neddy – a race horse on a rope.
The F-150 Hybrid "battery" is more of a buffer more than a battery … this a one mile buffer to allow the engine to avoid various inefficient situations. The motor is a simple 7.5 kW … it could have been 75kW … it could have been enough to drive the whole vehicle. That's already in the Lincoln Aviator. The F-150 is not like a "plug-in hybrid" designed to go 20+ miles without ever starting the engine in the first place. The F-150 battery is 1.5 kWh … about the same as the 12V battery powering the starter motor of any normal truck. compared to a 100 kWh battery neatly packed in the floor of a much smaller Tesla, Ford has chosen a laughably small capacity … and I suspect (accuse) them of making the Hybrid as weak as possible to "take a dive in the third" so the Lightning can sparkle and shine. The complexity of the F-150 Hybrid battery suggests it was designed to be much larger (30 or 50 times the capacity) and the complexity of the Hybrid engine (one motor as a starter motor, one motor as a generator, one motor as a traction motor) suggests this was a prototype somewhere in the middle of research and development (presumably R&D of the F-150 Lightning) that was abruptly taken out of R&D and put into production engineering (presumably to test market reception to a Hybrid pickup as a precursor to gauging market demand for an electric pickup.) While it's a hodgepodge of "ready, fire, aim" the Hybrid did prove people want pickups to be electric.
Once Ford sells a lot of Lightnings to the "first kid on the block" early adopters, I think they'll quietly offer options on the F-150 Hybrid for a much larger battery and maybe a "shore line" … to allow it to offer power to a house through a grid transfer switch (with it can do today to some extent … but it can't automatically start the engine to respond to a power outage) and to be charged from the house power/grid.

I love your Powerboost thesis!

One thing you said that I'm completely convinced of is that the Lighting is actually why the Powerboost exists and why it is what it is rather than what it easily could be.
And when I'm watching the Ford videos on the Lightning and I see more and more the software and interfaces it seems to me that a lot of the Powerboost is tech that was created during the R&D of the Lightning. It's almost like Ford gave the team the thumbs up to let the consumer dabble in pieces of the Lightning as a sample of what's the real goal.

And I'm also amazed that Ford was willing to build something as expensive (complex) as the Powerboost because the Lightning is going to be so much simpler and cost effective from both a manufacturing and service after sale.

 

[F-150 Prius]

I love your Powerboost thesis!

One thing you said that I'm completely convinced of is that the Lighting is actually why the Powerboost exists and why it is what it is rather than what it easily could be.
And when I'm watching the Ford videos on the Lightning and I see more and more the software and interfaces it seems to me that a lot of the Powerboost is tech that was created during the R&D of the Lightning. It's almost like Ford gave the team the thumbs up to let the consumer dabble in pieces of the Lightning as a sample of what's the real goal.

And I'm also amazed that Ford was willing to build something as expensive (complex) as the Powerboost because the Lightning is going to be so much simpler and cost effective from both a manufacturing and service after sale.

I think Ford gave the green-light to the Hybrid for three reasons:
1) you can never step into the same river, twice … small changes in the auto industry or the market could have resulted in a thumbs-down on the Hybrid
2) consumer response to the Hybrid informed Ford, both in production of the Hybrid and in terms of "can we convince our core of owners to eventually buy an electric F-150?"
3) if Ford didn't build the Lightning, they would be pretty much dead in the water with their most important single product if the market goes favorably into electric pickups

I think the demand for the Hybrid was not just a flood in Texas an demand for a pickup with a home backup generator, it was the whole market saying it was ready for both the RAM 1500 with a luxury cabin and for the F-150 to be a luxury vehicle, not a boxy, plastic work truck.

Imagine being the short-lived shortsighted bozo executive that let the F-150 fall from being the single most popular vehicle on the planet during the single most obvious market transition (to electric) …

If I was at Ford in the last two years and saw the Tesla Clustertruck and the GMC Hummer (one of the least respected names in the industry since they exploited the Humvee and H1 to make the cash-in H2 (Tahoe) and H3 (whatever it is) …) and the total absence of RAM and other pickup also-ran's … I'd be itching to build an F-150 PHEV and F-150 BEV. The only mistake with the Hybrid and the Lightning is they were not already selling pre-covid and Ford isn't yet building a million a year for retail and fleet. I'd like to think that will change in 2022/23.

 

[UGADawg96]

While I have an order for a PB yet to be scheduled and like the idea of the lightning, needing to tow a TT keeps me from the fully electric truck for now. Maybe in 5-10 years the infrastructure will be in place, but I think I'll be looking for a gen2 PB in 8 years and hopefully they put in a larger battery for longer electric mode and higher geny output for running home ACs or some other enhancement(s).

 

[Sentinel1201]

thought? yes
possible? no … at least not easily and nowhere near worth the cost of the work involved to make it happen … but … if someone wanted to add 10 kWh or 30 or 50 kWh and a plug-in circuit even at L1 or L2 (simple J1772 connector, maybe 10 to 80 miles added per hour … round numbers) then I think the humble F-150 Hybrid becomes a game-changer … not to fail to acknowledge the F-150 Hybrid is already a monumental game changer – but Ford could not bring a game-changer PHEV to upstage the Lightning … so we get a nobbled neddy – a race horse on a rope.
The F-150 Hybrid "battery" is more of a buffer more than a battery … this a one mile buffer to allow the engine to avoid various inefficient situations. The motor is a simple 7.5 kW … it could have been 75kW … it could have been enough to drive the whole vehicle. That's already in the Lincoln Aviator. The F-150 is not like a "plug-in hybrid" designed to go 20+ miles without ever starting the engine in the first place. The F-150 battery is 1.5 kWh … about the same as the 12V battery powering the starter motor of any normal truck. compared to a 100 kWh battery neatly packed in the floor of a much smaller Tesla, Ford has chosen a laughably small capacity … and I suspect (accuse) them of making the Hybrid as weak as possible to "take a dive in the third" so the Lightning can sparkle and shine. The complexity of the F-150 Hybrid battery suggests it was designed to be much larger (30 or 50 times the capacity) and the complexity of the Hybrid engine (one motor as a starter motor, one motor as a generator, one motor as a traction motor) suggests this was a prototype somewhere in the middle of research and development (presumably R&D of the F-150 Lightning) that was abruptly taken out of R&D and put into production engineering (presumably to test market reception to a Hybrid pickup as a precursor to gauging market demand for an electric pickup.) While it's a hodgepodge of "ready, fire, aim" the Hybrid did prove people want pickups to be electric.
Once Ford sells a lot of Lightnings to the "first kid on the block" early adopters, I think they'll quietly offer options on the F-150 Hybrid for a much larger battery and maybe a "shore line" … to allow it to offer power to a house through a grid transfer switch (with it can do today to some extent … but it can't automatically start the engine to respond to a power outage) and to be charged from the house power/grid.

There is a lot of mis-information in your post.

First, the motor is a 35KW motor, not 7.5 KW, not sure where you got that from.

Second, a 1.5KWH lithium battery is most definitely NOT the same size as a 12V lead acid traditional starter battery. Can you quote the stat or the amp hour to KWH conversion calculator you used? It's also pointless to compare traditional lead acid car batteries to EV batteries as the discharge range is much lower in traditional batteries. You cannot deplete a traditional battery to 5% over and over and recharge it. It will quit in just a few cycles.

Third, its not as simple as adding a 10/20 kwh battery to a hybrid and calling it a day. If it was, Prius's would ship with 100 kwh batteries like Teslas. Ever wonder why they don't? Batteries are HEAVY. A 10 KHW or 20 kwh battery would be several hundred pounds heavier and would take up room from the underside of the bed and severely limit payload and/or bed size. Then all F150 fans will complain about how lame this truck is at doing truck things.

Is the F150 hybrid a first gen hybrid and will future models improve on this architecture? Absolutely. Is it a half ass crippled vehicle like you imply? No. It delivers on what it claims - which is 20-30% efficiency improvement over any other F150 AND a 7.2KW generator with ZERO trade-offs or downsides. 20-30% is a HUGE improvement, nothing to be scoffed at.

What will make bigger batteries a thing in hybrids is improvement in battery tech. Solid state, better cooling, lighter weight, faster charge times, wider operating range for discharge etc. Battery tech is very much first gen/rudimentary.

 

[F-150 Prius]

There is a lot of mis-information in your post.

First, the motor is a 35KW motor, not 7.5 KW, not sure where you got that from.

Second, a 1.5KWH lithium battery is most definitely NOT the same size as a 12V lead acid traditional starter battery. Where are you getting that from? Can you quote the stat or the amp hour to KWH conversion calculator you used? It's also pointless to compare traditional lead acid car batteries to EV batteries as the discharge range is much lower in traditional batteries. You cannot deplete a traditional battery to 5% over and over and recharge it. It will quit in just a few cycles.

Third, you keep saying (over and over in multiple posts) that adding a 10/20 kwh battery is so simple. It's not. Hybrid tech isn't about sticking a bigger battery in everything and sitting back. If it was, Prius's would ship with 100 kwh batteries like Teslas. Ever wonder why they don't? Batteries are HEAVY. a 10 KHW or 20 kwh battery would be several hundred pounds heavier and would take up room from the underside of the bed and severely limit payload and/or bed size. Then all F150 fans will complain about how lame this truck is at doing truck things.

Is the F150 hybrid a first gen hybrid and will future models improve on this architecture? Absolutely. Is it a half ass crippled vehicle like you keep repeating over and over? No. It delivers on what it claims - which is 20-30% efficiency improvement over any other F150 AND a 7.2KW generator with ZERO trade-offs or downsides. 20-30% is a HUGE improvement, nothing to be scoffed at.

What will make bigger batteries a thing in hybrids is improvement in battery tech. Solid state, better cooling, lighter weight, faster charge times, wider operating range for discharge etc. Battery tech is very much first gen/rudimentary.

I wouldn't say a "lot of misinformation" certainly some misunderstanding in your reading of what I've posted, but yes, 7.2kW is the inverter, not the motor (which is 35kW.)
The comparison to a typical lead-acid vehicle battery is capacity and dimensions, not chemistry or properties and a typical car 12V is about 1.5kWh … useful to see the comparison to appreciate the small size of the F-150 Hybrid battery. I think it's useful to compare the F-150 Hybrid to the Aviator Plug-in. Also, the battery tech in the F-150 Hybrid from SK Electronics is equal to the best technology in production vehicles for the foreseeable future. When Tesla eventually develops production methods for the 4680, that will be the next generation of production technology. Others will leapfrog each other for years until there's a breakthrough in large scale manufacturing of a battery technology capable of much higher density and much faster charging.
The rest of the opinions you've posted do not pertain to my mistake about the electric motor size.
https://electrek.co/2021/07/26/tesla-update-4680-battery-cell-production/

 

[Merccat]

Interesting insights and discussion in this thread. As a pretty much everyday consumer myself, I would have 100% bought a plug-in hybrid F150. PowerBoost for me didn’t offer much advantage other than more power (which is sweet but not really something that would balance out the extra cost in my usage).

In the end though all hybrids will probably be transitional. Since I just bought my standard V8 F150 (great balance between price, efficiency and power) my next F150 will most likely be full electric unless for some reason the tech stalls, then hopefully there will be a good plug-in hybrid option.

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