Hoping the Big3 and UAW can work together to avoid a strike [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS, NO INSULTS]

[Natetroknot]

Most everyone I knew at Deere in 2016 in the UAW voted Trump while leadership backed Hillary. There has always been a disconnect between the leadership and the dues payers. Honestly, would it matter if the UAW were as cozy with republicans? I mean they’re all crooks, right? It’s all crooks greasing crooks.

The strike fund was damn near depleted not long before that election to renovate home offices in Detroit, among other waste & greed. Union leaders put out the occasional fire and didn’t rock the boat. In return, easy money and foot-on-the-desk office jobs with pensions and prestige in return.

Best money and benefits I’ve ever had however.

Quit without notice, job was terrible, could never understand how they were even profitable-but the shareholders never had it better.

No idea how to right that ship but I knew I wanted off.

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[fordtruckman2003]

Visited a plant that goes on strike tonight many times over the last few years. Usually see 10 people sleeping on forklifts every time. They will be happy to get a 32 hour week so they can sleep 8 hours of it.
Must be why they just added automated equipment that requires only one forklift driver.

In contrast I have a friend at a non union auto job who will sweep floors if necessary to get his 40 hours in. He'd be terminated on the spot if he was caught sleeping on his forklift. Gets paid well though and he's happy to push a broom and paint floors to stay busy.

I know not all union workers are bad but just what I've seen annoys me. 8 of 10 people doing the work while all 10 get paid the same.

I do hope both sides figure out a solution because strikes hurt the whole industry. Suppliers are often non union put out of work with no strike fund to bail them out.

 

[HammaMan]

Did some work at a union construction site working for the owners directly. They put people in elevators to hit the button like in the old days. Literally a guy sitting on a bucket in brand new elevator. We made buddies with the elevator guys and had them turn us on our own elevator. Got no time for that kinda shit.

 

[fordtruckman2003]

Did some work at a union construction site working for the owners directly. They put people in elevators to hit the button like in the old days. Literally a guy sitting on a bucket in brand new elevator. We made buddies with the elevator guys and had them turn us on our own elevator. Got no time for that kinda shit.

Union button pusher?
About like when we have to wait on a union electrician to show up to plug anything into a receptacle.

I will say one union place I used to go to even the janitor made good money. Cleanest place I've ever seen dude just constantly cleaning all day he earned his money.

 

[Hullguy]

Wage stagnation is due to these low-skilled jobs competing with millions of bodies flowing across the southern border willing to do the same for less. So long as politicians continue to allow such activities there will be no wage reprieve. NY's solution to their cute tiny little 'migrant' infusion of a laughable 10k per month is to try and get them working ASAP. Do tell what cheap labor does to wages.

Sometimes you get precisely what you vote for, regardless if it's what you need. It's just another ponzi scheme to keep people that hate you, in power. Political parties collecting record revenue from unions when that money should have been used a dues reduction. US education is complete horse poo -- even the union leaders send their children to non-unionized private schools.

Hell, would you look at that? Isn't being able to ask simple questions to Ai great? Right out of the member's pockets with instant pass through into politician's. Amazing right?

Unions serve their masters, not their members. (I didn't ask it about political parties, it was so glaringly obvious in the data it served that up on its own)

Nice quotes. Where are they from?

 

[Mtnman1]

The UAW is out if their ever loving minds and are not even trying to work a deal.

32 hours worked for 40 hrs pay?????

That last offer Ford made was beyond fair.

 

[Wvmtneer]

The UAW is out if their ever loving minds and are not even trying to work a deal.

32 hours worked for 40 hrs pay?????

That last offer Ford made was beyond fair.

I work 50 hr weeks for 40 hour pay. I'd love to only have to work 40 hrs a week.

 

[Natetroknot]

It's all about perspective. The public perception of unions has changed in the last few decades, their weaknesses and collusion has been aired, and their effectiveness has also weakened. Similar to our branches of government here in the US, they are eager to elicit positive change (which is subjective), therefore making make outlandish demands to try and peacock or posture to show strength. "Student loan debt will be wiped" ..... "Mandatory competency tests for older politicians" ... "32 hour work weeks" ..... "40% raises and a restoration of pensions and health care" ..... you get the idea. These people need to produce some pretty crazy results to justify the organization's literal need at all, and they want their cushy jobs in Detroit and/or Washington D.C.

Now on the other hand, if the workers can get a huge bone thrown their way, isn't that good for everyone? It was said at John Deere that worker wage (both hourly/union and salary/company) accounted for about 7% of the cost of a machine, on average. Now that figure may as well be pulled straight from my fanny since I have no idea of its statistical merit - and it prolly shouldn't be used as a comparison for Ford - but for argument's sake Ford's profit loss percentage from the wages it pays the 145k UAW workers is likely less than that, as they can and do crank out thousands more machines a year. The more the process can be repeated in the assembly environment, the more profitable the operation. Ford almost certainly can afford a 40 percent increase in wages, restore health care to retirees, and so on. That much I am sure about. When you make something from scratch, dictate it's price and profit margin, and offer financing on it's purchase, it's a pretty solid and profitable business model.

But the last thing a shot caller at a major union manufacturing plant or company wants is to have to trim the fat, as it requires a lot of diligence and literal "work". Waste, process control, that's the real drain on profit in these environments - but it requires a lot more expertise and wherewithal to curb.

It has been my experience that when you have waste, laziness, and apathy on the union/wage side - it also exists in equal proportions on the company side. Everyone has the phuck-it's, so to speak. I can almost guarantee the equivalent of sleeping on forklifts happens daily in the office environment at Ford. And plenty of salary workers aren't putting in the full 40.

I dunno. I enjoy talking about this stuff and really like reading everyone's opinions. Having experienced this thing daily for almost a decade, the only real clarity I have is that corporations suck, unions suck, but people do better when they make more money, and we all do better when people succeed.

It's also hard to believe how much productivity has risen oven the years, and how wages haven't followed suit. They were neck-and-neck for generations. Corporations, executives, and shareholders have never done better - and how can that be justified? I think it has a lot more to do with Nixon getting rid of the Gold Standard and shifting to Fiat money than automation, technology, etc.....but that's another thread.

Now that the strike is in motion, it will be interesting to watch. Happy Friday to those of us who work for a goddamn living! It isn't easy!

 

[nomarhits400]

JFC dude. Hey everyone, @Calson wants you to know that if you’re anti-union you’re a literal Nazi

You read that whole post?

 

[dolsen]

You read that whole post?

Yep, it’s the same political drivel he always spews. Sure, there’s a little bit of “facts and data” but if you read any of his other posts anywhere else on this forum, you’ll know it’s all politically charged and motivated

 

[nomarhits400]

Yep, it’s the same political drivel he always spews. Sure, there’s a little bit of “facts and data” but if you read any of his other posts anywhere else on this forum, you’ll know it’s all politically charged and motivated

No worries- I was only half serious...maybe not even half. I having nothing good to say about unions- and wish folks would really look into the bigger picture. However- I respect differing opinions- and we can just agree to disagree.....Is it still safe to say that anymore?

 

[dolsen]

No worries- I was only half serious...maybe not even half. I having nothing good to say about unions- and wish folks would really look into the bigger picture. However- I respect differing opinions- and we can just agree to disagree.....Is it still safe to say that anymore?

My bad, I got the joke now, a lot is lost in text only.

 

[JExpedition07]

It's all about perspective. The public perception of unions has changed in the last few decades, their weaknesses and collusion has been aired, and their effectiveness has also weakened. Similar to our branches of government here in the US, they are eager to elicit positive change (which is subjective), therefore making make outlandish demands to try and peacock or posture to show strength. "Student loan debt will be wiped" ..... "Mandatory competency tests for older politicians" ... "32 hour work weeks" ..... "40% raises and a restoration of pensions and health care" ..... you get the idea. These people need to produce some pretty crazy results to justify the organization's literal need at all, and they want their cushy jobs in Detroit and/or Washington D.C.

Now on the other hand, if the workers can get a huge bone thrown their way, isn't that good for everyone? It was said at John Deere that worker wage (both hourly/union and salary/company) accounted for about 7% of the cost of a machine, on average. Now that figure may as well be pulled straight from my fanny since I have no idea of its statistical merit - and it prolly shouldn't be used as a comparison for Ford - but for argument's sake Ford's profit loss percentage from the wages it pays the 145k UAW workers is likely less than that, as they can and do crank out thousands more machines a year. The more the process can be repeated in the assembly environment, the more profitable the operation. Ford almost certainly can afford a 40 percent increase in wages, restore health care to retirees, and so on. That much I am sure about. When you make something from scratch, dictate it's price and profit margin, and offer financing on it's purchase, it's a pretty solid and profitable business model.

But the last thing a shot caller at a major union manufacturing plant or company wants is to have to trim the fat, as it requires a lot of diligence and literal "work". Waste, process control, that's the real drain on profit in these environments - but it requires a lot more expertise and wherewithal to curb.

It has been my experience that when you have waste, laziness, and apathy on the union/wage side - it also exists in equal proportions on the company side. Everyone has the phuck-it's, so to speak. I can almost guarantee the equivalent of sleeping on forklifts happens daily in the office environment at Ford. And plenty of salary workers aren't putting in the full 40.

I dunno. I enjoy talking about this stuff and really like reading everyone's opinions. Having experienced this thing daily for almost a decade, the only real clarity I have is that corporations suck, unions suck, but people do better when they make more money, and we all do better when people succeed.

It's also hard to believe how much productivity has risen oven the years, and how wages haven't followed suit. They were neck-and-neck for generations. Corporations, executives, and shareholders have never done better - and how can that be justified? I think it has a lot more to do with Nixon getting rid of the Gold Standard and shifting to Fiat money than automation, technology, etc.....but that's another thread.

Now that the strike is in motion, it will be interesting to watch. Happy Friday to those of us who work for a goddamn living! It isn't easy!

it’s simple, executives are over compensated. Nobody in Ford management has any risk, that’s all carried by investors and the board. An executive manager takes no more risk than a line worker, hence Farley is not worth millions. My family is in development, dare I say we aren’t worth it either. It’s the contractors who create all the value with their labor. Selecting a plot of land and setting up some contracts really is not a huge value add to society yet my family members drive around in Bentleys. I left the company after they had me managing several million in jobs for $15 per hour through college and offering me a $2 raise when I graduated. I went to a competitor and make 4X.

They essentially wanted to put the entire weight of all development activities on my shoulders for a percentage of equity and no pay. I would have been a millionaire in my late 40’s, but I just couldn’t bare living off those wages and giving up my 20’s and 30’s for a wealthy future. I traded in that hat to be middle class and I wouldn’t change a thing . Upper middle class for my whole life beats being dirt poor and filthy rich only when I’m old and wrinkly. Point is you can always find ways to get payed more, increase your skill set and shop around. Unions are becoming archaic. I don’t see $50 per hour being a fair value for that labor. It’s not worth that much.

 

[Natetroknot]

it’s simple, executives are over compensated. Nobody in Ford management has any risk, that’s all carried by investors and the board. An executive manager takes no more risk than a line worker, hence Farley is not worth millions. My family is in development, dare I say we aren’t worth it either. It’s the contractors who create all the value with their labor. Selecting a plot of land and setting up some contracts really is not a huge value add to society yet my family members drive around in Bentleys. I left the company after they had me managing several million in jobs for $15 per hour through college and offering me a $2 raise when I graduated. I went to a competitor and make 4X. Yep, family gatherings are interesting these days…. Greed does funny things to people.

They essentially wanted to put the entire weight of all development activities on my shoulders for a percentage of equity and no pay. I would have been a millionaire in my late 40’s, but I just couldn’t bare living off those wages and giving up my 20’s and 30’s for a wealthy future. I traded in that hat to be middle class and I wouldn’t change a thing . Upper middle class for my whole life beats being dirt poor and filthy rich only when I’m old and wrinkly. Point is you can always find ways to get payed more, increase your skill set and shop around. Unions are becoming archaic. I don’t see $50 per hour being a fair value for that labor. It’s not worth that much.

I get you......the way I see it, things were better for everyone in America when a single income household could own a home, have a few children, own a reliable and comfortable vehicle, and take a family vacation together once a year or so from dad driving a forklift at the local factory, or whatever. Send their kids to school, not be too burned out to participate in their lives afterwards, see to their overall upbringing better, etc. In my eyes, that is a fair expectation for that labor. And many, many others. (Not all jobs, I'm not in the "work-at-McRonDon's-and-support-a-family" camp). Now I know that, even at $50/hr, that is generally impossible to attain in and of itself in today's world. I don't think that's a healthy direction for our society.

 

[fordtruckman2003]

Having experienced this thing daily for almost a decade, the only real clarity I have is that corporations suck, unions suck, but people do better when they make more money, and we all do better when people succeed.

Can agree with that.

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