5.0 vs PB runs

[JExpedition07]

Another interesting tid bit about the 3.0 Hurricane is that from my understating Stellantis is actually paying Ford to use the 5.0L cylinder lining process ( IP owned by Ford) for the plasma arc cylinder liners. These liners are very wear resistant, Nissan is also paying Ford to use the process under license in the GTR. Extremely hard coating the thickness of a finger nail, holds oil onto the cylinder walls better reducing parasitic losses and cylinder wall wear.

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[HammaMan]

I will say this, the 2025 Rams with that 540 HP 3.0 Hurricane are going to leave us all in the dust. The only Ford that will beat the hurricane is the Raptor R. I am still curious how Ford tackles that. The 3.5 isn’t built for those boost levels (26 psi sustained). Looking at the head bolt pattern on that 3.0, those heads are tougher than any 3.5, 5.0, or 2.7 Ford at the deck. That’s the one limitation with the Ford platform (for all 3 of our engines), turn up too much pressure in the cylinders and the head studs start stretching. A Ram engineer said most of the competitors would warp heads running the boost the Hurricane can run. I think Ford has a good motor family running though, they can also just add E-power to any and all of them if they want. The Mustang DH is all ready at 500 HP, if they could add a lightweight hybrid setup to the 5.0 HO they could pretty easily outperform the Hurricane (which is a long setup to add a series hybrid onto, so a Dodge hybrid to compete is doubtful) inline 6 makes that a challenge for Ram. Interesting choice. Still, a powerful setup.

Ain't skeered.

 

[Yason84]

Another interesting tid bit about the 3.0 Hurricane is that from my understating Stellantis is actually paying Ford to use the 5.0L cylinder lining process ( IP owned by Ford) for the plasma arc cylinder liners. These liners are very wear resistant, Nissan is also paying Ford to use the process under license in the GTR. Extremely hard coating the thickness of a finger nail, holds oil onto the cylinder walls better reducing parasitic losses and cylinder wall wear.

Okay so I did some looking when I had time. The H.O. Hurricane is not just some engine option that you can just select for the Rebel, it requires a whole ‘nother $85,000 trim package that’s replacing the TRX for the time being called the R.H.O. It’s also standard in Limited and the new Tungsten trim. Some other source also said Longhorn will have it but not according to Ram…it’s not mentioned. The H.O. Hurricane-equipped trucks are also kinda gimped on payload compared to their non-HO counterparts. I don’t think Ford is worried about trying to compete with that unobtainable engine option. It’s just another specialty engine going into overpriced, non-working, pavement princesses.

 

[Samson16]

Okay so I did some looking when I had time. The H.O. Hurricane is not just some engine option that you can just select for the Rebel, it requires a whole ‘nother $85,000 trim package that’s replacing the TRX for the time being called the R.H.O. It’s also standard in Limited and the new Tungsten trim. Some other source also said Longhorn will have it but not according to Ram…it’s not mentioned. The H.O. Hurricane-equipped trucks are also kinda gimped on payload compared to their non-HO counterparts. I don’t think Ford is worried about trying to compete with that unobtainable engine option. It’s just another specialty engine going into overpriced, non-working, pavement princesses.

Thanks for doing the research
It’s interesting that Ram will be 4 years behind Ford when these new models hit the market, and I’m not sure the lineup stacks up. No V8 option and payloads that make the PB look HDPP

 

[isthatahemi]

Which trim / batt?
For me the stock range in real world is meh. The 600 mile range of the PB w/ 6m recharge time is quite spoiling. As for the performance, the AWD model is the logical choice for price point, but the performance Is something on-par for a stock tuned PB on the low end, while the PB walks away up top, particularly with the 112 limit.

We're still missing a technological piece to really make a BEV truck logical for those that aren't relegated to grocery getting, and that's ignoring the lack of trailer friendly charging entirely.

Okay, where do I start…..a Tri-Motor Cybertruck is light years faster than anything in the truck realm, pretty much a tie for my 10 second coyote crew cab. Your on crack with your PB is faster comment.

Now for the American struggle to understand use cases….i own 2 trucks, one will be a platinum PB, the other will be my wife’s daily and my weekend toy…..

I really dont care about others thoughts about towing or highway range. I want a 10 second truck with few drawbacks.

If there’s another 10 sec truck (right) that can reliably haul 12k lbs (nope) for short hauls, and a higher payload (nope) than any comparable F150…., I’m all ears.

The Cybertruck the perfect truck for me pretty much.

So, yes, to the 5.0 religion crowd, I’m selling the coyote, for a Tesla lol. Flame away!

 

[Samson16]

The Cybertruck the perfect truck for me pretty much.

Sounds great! Post pics when you get it. It would be cool to see your PB charging your CT

 

[Snakebitten]

So, yes, to the 5.0 religion crowd, I’m selling the coyote, for a Tesla lol. Flame away!

Flame?
Are you kidding?
I'll be green with envy!
Even the stereo system is getting rave reviews as world class.

 

[isthatahemi]

Sounds great! Post pics when you get it. It would be cool to see your PB charging your CT

Lol, could happen, the wife doesn't watch the fuel gauge, so battery will be much the same thing.

Flame?
Are you kidding?
I'll be green with envy!
Even the stereo system is getting rave reviews as world class.

Cool Cool. So much hate for it, I just think it's cool and works for me. I figure I only go around once, try things and see what's up. I'll have to read those stereo reviews, hadn't heard of that. Cheers.

 

[Snakebitten]

Cool Cool. So much hate for it, I just think it's cool and works for me. I figure I only go around once, try things and see what's up. I'll have to read those stereo reviews, hadn't heard of that. Cheers.

Skip to minute 51 if you just want to hear Kyle's opinion of the stereo. But of course if you aren't full of Cybetruck vitriol, enjoy his whole take. He has driven everything electric for sure.

 

[isthatahemi]

Thanks! I'm stealing your CCD coding in a couple months as well lol.

 

[Snakebitten]

Thanks! I'm stealing your CCD coding in a couple months as well lol.

I'm flattered!
I think I'm going to increase/firm it up some more. I'll be sure to post if it works out for the better.

 

[isthatahemi]

I'm flattered!
I think I'm going to increase/firm it up some more. I'll be sure to post if it works out for the better.

Perhaps I can return the favor, and get the coding for the suspension settings added / unlocked to HPT so that one isn't locked into the modes that Ford dictates, there has to be a way..... I just know every other parameter, from the drive mode when started, to what happens in those modes was / is a settable parameter, and now that we are locked out of module programming, that is a likely way to address it, using HPTuners, which is likely the path I will take with the new PB, as SCT seems to be asleep at the switch per the usual arrangement.

Sorry for the highjack.

 

[HammaMan]

Okay, where do I start…..

By learning to read (AWD)

a Tri-Motor Cybertruck is light years faster than anything in the truck realm, pretty much a tie for my 10 second coyote crew cab. Your on crack with your PB is faster comment.

It's you're, but that's okay as you've established reading and grammar aren't your strong points. The AWD CT does 0-60 in 4.3 (1' rollout) w/ a full battery and has a 112mph top speed. The tri-motor that you've tried to shoehorn into my post is done at 130

Now for the American struggle to understand use cases….i own 2 trucks, one will be a platinum PB, the other will be my wife’s daily and my weekend toy…..
I really dont care about others thoughts about towing or highway range. I want a 10 second truck with few drawbacks.
If there’s another 10 sec truck (right) that can reliably haul 12k lbs (nope) for short hauls, and a higher payload (nope) than any comparable F150…., I’m all ears.
The Cybertruck the perfect truck for me pretty much.
So, yes, to the 5.0 religion crowd, I’m selling the coyote, for a Tesla lol. Flame away!

The AWD's 70mph range was released yesterday, finally, from an unbiased tester and it's not even 250 miles. From 100% to 0% where it had to be dragged to the charger (after the 3rd time of slamming into park during the tow, the livestream mic was muted as it sounded that bad). If you're really going to drop $100k on that, we'll enjoy the show. FWIW, while the AWD has the PMM in the rear and shuts off the front motor, the tri motor has its induction motors in the rear and becomes front wheel drive when not accelerating.

You'll find the CT and your PB to have identical tow ratings, but once the novelty dopamine wears off and that 20k$ build quality is encountered on the regular, you'll just be glad the DD is the platinum PB. The CT has a lot of things going for it, being a replacement for the PB isn't one of them. One CT already had its screen crap out which is a death sentence for a tesla with everything buried within it. As of now, the CT doesn't even have lane centering -- just self-distancing cruise control, worry not, it's coming "soon".

Here's a fun fact for you. The PB can fully charge a cybertruck and then proceed to still out range it with the remaining fuel in the tank. The fact that neither the real-world range nor its actual track performance has been shown is just a solid indication that the tesla fanbois have been playing along with a carefully sculpted narrative around what it is, and most importantly what it's not. You're in the attic up there in canada, that winter range hit is going to SUCK. Do you already own an EV? I do, and I'm in the southern US and can bitch all day about the winter hit. I'm a realist when it comes to practical usage.

Canadian winter combined with a 245 mile 100% range? We'll give you a 90% daily charge rate, a bit more gracious than tesla's suggested 80% (245*.9=220.5). Winter time, another 25% is gone (220.5*.75=165). Wow, just make sure you don't wander more the 80 miles from home base unless you've got for-sure charging, otherwise the PB is going on a CT rescue mission. FWIW, the only model produced for now is the AWD. Only those with an early order and willing to pay a $20k premium ($120k USD for tri-motor) are able to get an early one. That's $160k CAD for a 250 mile range EV?

I'll just level with you as an early adopter and huge fan of tech. The CT as it stands is just a fucking waste of cash. Not sure how your EV credits are up there, but in the US the standard AWD comes in just under 80k and can have an instant 7.5k taken off at sale, possibly more depending on the state. That puts it around $70k, but still comes with 250 miles of range. Even being tesla its charging is going to suck vs other modern EVs w/ 800v architecture because tesla doesn't have 800v chargers. Thus the pack converts into a 400v architecture becoming current limited so you don't even get the barely acceptable charge rate of most teslas because the truck is just too damn inefficient. It took nearly an hour and a half for the CT to charge up at a tesla super charger. Come back to earth and keep that 5.0. You can thank me when actually viable EV trucks show up.

 

[Snakebitten]

Hammaman is a better defender of the Powerboost than me. And that's saying something.
But ironically, I am more enamored with the Cybetruck than he is. Go figure. Lol

I admit that I take the liberty to NOT either/or the Powerboost/Cybetruck.
Heck, I don't consider any EV worthy of replacing an ICE or Hybrid. There's just some scenarios where they fail hard. But the things they do well?

Oh my. They kick butt!

I'm old. I get to enjoy that era in your life where you consider living like you're dying, if you know what I mean.
Pondering certainly is harmless!

 

[HammaMan]

(edit - created new thread for the topic to not pollute this thread too much, found here )

We both have beater EVs Snake so it's not like we don't have EV experience. The PB can scoot 600 miles on a tank of gas without much fuss, especially at 70mph. Some will get them closer to 700 miles. That's true of most of the F150s with a 30 gallon tank. To go from that to a 250 mile range vehicle that needs 30 minutes of charge to get back 125 miles of range --- we're not even in the same league here in terms of utility, ESPECIALLY when you've got a brick wall in tow.

With EV truck of that efficiency, realistically it's hitting a charger every 100 miles for 45 minutes towing (you have to go where the chargers are so YMMV even up to the point of not being able to complete some journeys entirely, also thermal management is insufficient for CT batt resulting in thermal throttling on charge). Compare that with a gas stop every 250 miles where the pump is faster than the occupants who wander around, hit the pisser, snack bar, etc... all while being able to pull the truck and rig up to the pump. EV towing? Forget about it. That's just torture with today's (and the foreseeable future's) infrastructure. Makes a great filler point for a youtube vlogger dropping the trailer to charge, but the average person isn't going to want to do that more than once -- let alone charging every 100 miles!?!?! Even at 66 mph, you're driving 90 minutes and charging for 45? That shit is pure torture.

I've created just about every CT related thread here on the forum except for maybe 1. I was excited to see it raise the bar (per initial marketing fluff), but it did it in all the wrong ways (340 mile advertised range is actually 250 at 70mph = huge disappointment especially since most of us will run 80+ MPH). I really want the bar to be raised for electrified platforms be it BEV or PHEV, as well as technology in general. However interior build quality is also important. CT has too many cheap chincy parts in it including most of the interior plastic (long-running issue of tesla, they may figure out interiors one day).

48v, cool, but it didn't really do anything from a truck usability standpoint -- saved 14lbs of copper (irrelevant). Does nothing for truck utility like a winch? Nuhuh. You need to carry ~50lbs worth of 12v battery and trickle charge them due to limited 12v generation.
4 wheel steering? Not new or novel, been on trucks before, also on hummer EV. It'd be a nice potential option, especially on 157s, but we're not exactly unable to handle our trucks with ease now, especially w/ 360 cams.
The bed size was/is lied about -- at the tailgate / rail height (20" from floor), it's only 5.5', not 6' as advertised. 6' area is angled area to handle some 4x8 sheets and not a true 6' bed.
No spare tire or place to store it without taking up bed space (this was just dumb IMO) -- another tesla "Less is More? ™" feature trucks need. Not cool when cars do it, but a truck!??
'PPOB ac power' doesn't work while charging -- I like its specs (40a 240v plug, or 48a via NACS connector w/ 110a surge), lack of a frunk 120v outlet was a seriously poor choice. Not being able to use the 120v sockets (or any AC power for that matter) when performing any charging including DC fast charging -- that's just a shot to the balls (though USB-C power delivery at 60w works, still a niche category) and no 12v 'lighter' socket for dash cams / radar detectors

Early driving tests = harsh ride despite rigid body on full air suspension with back to back driving reports of the lightning being "like a Cadillac" vs the harshness of the CT (CT running LT285/65/20 D rated tires, 50psi from factory) with CT having more noise as well (LT tire = more noise and vibration). Lightning has same front suspension of the 14th gens which are arguably great riding trucks. Rear is IRS vs our live axles, but sway bar is adequate to bring it in line. Not sure about tire size adjustments in tesla's software, but I think giving the CT a 275-65-20 P tire like a recon grappler would do wonders to improve ride quality while giving it another 12 miles of range or so.

Okay, this wall of text is sufficient for now. One of the CT threads is better suited for this. But as mentioned, the AWD (aka dual motor) CT is no competition for the powerboost when it comes to ride quality / distance / towing / recharging / or just a whole package if your needs are anything other than soccer mom duties. Even home backup powering, the fully fueled PB is going to give you greater than 200kWh worth of juice -- ignoring the new possibilities that even a small aux tank can bring.

I'm just a realist in its capabilities / performance, which is what truly matters to the truck crowd. Did I mention it's ugly? Oh, its headlights suck too likely due to unusually low height with no fog lights either.

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