Some stats on the PowerBoost hybrid system

[victimofareload]

Hello all. Now that I finally have my PB back. I had a chance to pull some stats from forscan that I found interesting. Here are some stats in no particular order.

• The battery appears to be ~277v. I've seen it as high as 290. And as low as 260 something.
• The truck seems to try to keep the battery state of charge around 50%. I've gotten mine as high as 58% on a long stop. And as low as ~40%.
• The battery seems to do ~130 amps max both in and out.
• The truck has sensors for battery coolant temp. So it appears to be an actively cooled battery.
• The battery only ever goes +/- a few percent it seems. Which makes sense. If they filled the battery, or drained it constantly it would be harder on the battery.
• The truck has a "discharge limit" PID. Which appears to be the maximum allowed power the hybrid system can use at that time. It's almost always 35KW. As the battery SOC sags. So does it. But I've not yet seen it less then 34kw. (1KW lost)
• If I just let the truck idle, It'll start and run the engine when the battery reaches 40% SOC. And it turns off when the battery reaches ~50% SOC (49% in my case). It charged at about 45amps just idling.

Stuff about the ev coach

• Despite heavy breaking seeming to show that you stop charging the battery. You do not. As soon as you cross the threshold into "white" where the text turns white and is no longer green. You're still doing ~129 amps into the HV battery. But that's the max.
• Despite the truck being in "hybrid" mode with the engine running, If you hit the throttle. It's using the battery and hybrid system.
• Simply letting off the throttle and coasting DOES charge the battery. ~20 amps in my testing.

I don't know if anyone as talked about this here before. I just got my truck back and finally got some time to tinker and see how it works. I'll post some screenshots later when I'm home. Happy to investigate anything else if anyone is curious.

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[Ajzride]

Thanks for the information, that is certainly data I had not seen yet.

I really wish they would open up the battery usage a little bit. Maybe 30-70%, that still seems pretty safe on the lifespan on the battery.

 

[F-150 Prius]

Thanks for the information, that is certainly data I had not seen yet.

I really wish they would open up the battery usage a little bit. Maybe 30-70%, that still seems pretty safe on the lifespan on the battery.

Right. Stop the "warranty" fear and just let the owner of the vehicle decide what they want to do … find a way in the law to let people just buy something and use it rather than forever being limited by fear of litigious ambulance chasing lawyers suing for "one billion dollars!" because a few numbskulls have the misfortune of never receiving the education to be able to comprehend the world around them.
Imagine if there was "truth on the touchscreen" … "check this box if you want to improve mpg from 24 to 30 mpg, saving $1000 every few months till the battery burns up like that thing in Tony Stark's chest and it costs $2000 to replace." Or something simple and real world like "check this box if you want to be able to adjust battery and motor performance for yourself … you might not improve anything and the battery will probably age faster, but up to you, Hondo."

 

[daemonic3]

Fascinating stats! Love it.

I was going to try this with the ODBII bluetooth and Torque app. Did you just keep the laptop gauge screen open the whole time or have a passenger reading them off?

Once it hits an asymptote of the roughly 60% (say, long drive on freeway) does the charge/input current drop to nearly 0A? I've been curious if it frees up the resistance the generator places on the drive belt so that we're as efficient as an ecoboost or if it just continually generates current but not letting it go into the battery.

Would definitely be fun to experiment with the watermarks (like 30/70 as suggested) to maybe squeeze more electric miles out. I bet Ford won't like that because a lot of folks that plan to sell within a year would probably tweak it and not worry about battery longevity, and the battery lifetime complaints would start to roll in.

 

[Ajzride]

Battery limits are set on the touchscreen for our Mach-E, I don't know why they can't put them there for the Powerboost as well.

 

[victimofareload]

Now that I'm back home. Here's a picture of the laptop displaying the data.

 

[victimofareload]

Fascinating stats! Love it.

I was going to try this with the ODBII bluetooth and Torque app. Did you just keep the laptop gauge screen open the whole time or have a passenger reading them off?

Once it hits an asymptote of the roughly 60% (say, long drive on freeway) does the charge/input current drop to nearly 0A? I've been curious if it frees up the resistance the generator places on the drive belt so that we're as efficient as an ecoboost or if it just continually generates current but not letting it go into the battery.

Would definitely be fun to experiment with the watermarks (like 30/70 as suggested) to maybe squeeze more electric miles out. I bet Ford won't like that because a lot of folks that plan to sell within a year would probably tweak it and not worry about battery longevity, and the battery lifetime complaints would start to roll in.

I uhhh. Totally don't look at the laptop while driving.... never. But yeah. I just kept glancing at the running screen every little bit. But most of the looking and testing I did (IE, nailing the throttle and hard braking) I did in an empty parking lot.

As for Torque. I've not used Torque with this truck sans reading some codes before I had forscan. But honestly. If you're even remotely techie. Get a good USB OBD reader and forscan. It's incredible what you can read out of these trucks. The list of PID's and modules I can read from the truck is a mile long (It's seriously thousands of sensors).

I'll have to take the laptop with me on my next freeway drive. I just drove to dinner and did some testing earlier. And it was all city. So I didn't see what it does when the truck is running for extended periods (like highway speeds). I assume it stops charging at some point. The battery is so small in these trucks that it can't just charge in perpetuity. It's got to stop at some point. Now if that's actually pulling the load off the engine, or simply dumping it into a resistor we'll never know. But I assume shutting off the generator would be the smart/logical thing to do.. (You know what they say about assuming?)

I too wish they cycled the battery a little deeper. But time will tell. These were just the stats I pulled in 10-15 minutes on my way to dinner with some friends (Typed up my OP in the Olive Garden parking lot).

Another consideration would be this is something a software update could change... So it might change eventually.

Just sitting idle. With the engine not running. The truck reported ~2 Amps coming out of the hybrid battery.

It's hard to say if I can trust the 12v battery charge sensor. Because it constantly stated there was 3-4 amps coming OUT of the 12v battery. And I never saw it charge. I'm thinking that's bunk and the truck mostly runs itself off the hybrid battery via a DC to DC converter. The truck has a "DC to DC Converter Module" that forscan reads. So that adds fuel to that fire.

 

[Oxford_Powerboost]

[*]Despite heavy breaking seeming to show that you stop charging the battery. You do not. As soon as you cross the threshold into "white" where the text turns white and is no longer green. You're still doing ~129 amps into the HV battery. But that's the max.

This sounds appropriate - the EV coach shows that you can brake to maximum regen, and then you can blend in service brakes after, but doesn’t remove the line for max regen. So you are using max regen, plus service brakes for whatever excess braking you’re requesting.

Good to know this works in practice as it appears to on the screen

 

[daemonic3]

Just sitting idle. With the engine not running. The truck reported ~2 Amps coming out of the hybrid battery.

It's hard to say if I can trust the 12v battery charge sensor. Because it constantly stated there was 3-4 amps coming OUT of the 12v battery. And I never saw it charge. I'm thinking that's bunk and the truck mostly runs itself off the hybrid battery via a DC to DC converter. The truck has a "DC to DC Converter Module" that forscan reads. So that adds fuel to that fire.

Oh ok I think this makes sense. The high voltage battery powers some stuff (like AC/Heat, maybe pumps and power steering?) and the DC/DC converter(s) and all the compute modules are running off 12V so its gotta have some quiescent load floor that's never 0A. And (even with DC/DC efficiency loss) even 1A @ 280V is enough for several amps @ 12V.

 

[imnuts]

I was going to update my driving observations thread with this too, but some stats after bringing up the battery charge info in Torque: the battery limits seem to be 42-72% with the normal operating range being ~45-55%. At ~46%, it will start limiting output, by 42% the min/max power bars are next to each other. Charging is typically under 60%, it starts limiting regen charging around 68% and will stop completely between 71.5-72%. I'm actually surprised at how little the battery charges when the engine is on. After about 51-52%, there's very little battery charging via the engine, and even under 50% it is slow, from my few trips watching it.

 

[DBL R]

Does 4h/4a have any difference in discharge and regen of battery compared to 2h?

Other than mechanical brakes being used first in 4h/4a vs regen braking first in 2h.

 

[CK.MECHA]

Hmm, wonder if DISCHARGELIM or the variable/s that drive it are programable with enough digging..

 

[DT444T]

This sounds appropriate - the EV coach shows that you can brake to maximum regen, and then you can blend in service brakes after, but doesn’t remove the line for max regen. So you are using max regen, plus service brakes for whatever excess braking you’re requesting.

Good to know this works in practice as it appears to on the screen

I'm just surprised that people think that's how it works. Why would the regen stop just because you've reached its maximum capability? Of course it keeps regenerating. You've just asked for more braking than it can provide, alone.

 

[daemonic3]

I was going to update my driving observations thread with this too, but some stats after bringing up the battery charge info in Torque: the battery limits seem to be 42-72% with the normal operating range being ~45-55%. At ~46%, it will start limiting output, by 42% the min/max power bars are next to each other. Charging is typically under 60%, it starts limiting regen charging around 68% and will stop completely between 71.5-72%. I'm actually surprised at how little the battery charges when the engine is on. After about 51-52%, there's very little battery charging via the engine, and even under 50% it is slow, from my few trips watching it.

This suggests some capability to remove the generator's resistance on the drive belt so the ICE efficiency is maximized. Something like "I've got a pool of 51-52% charge ready so remove generator resistance to let us recapture WANTED resistance for free from brakes up to 70% charge" type of deal. It sounds like they've really thought out the strategy for every "% charge zone" from 0 to 100 to apply the behavior to the entire drivetrain/brake system.

 

[Oxford_Powerboost]

This suggests some capability to remove the generator's resistance on the drive belt so the ICE efficiency is maximized. Something like "I've got a pool of 51-52% charge ready so remove generator resistance to let us recapture WANTED resistance for free from brakes up to 70% charge" type of deal. It sounds like they've really thought out the strategy for every "% charge zone" from 0 to 100 to apply the behavior to the entire drivetrain/brake system.

I’ve actually seen this behavior happening in the instantaneous fuel economy screen when on the highway. My truck seems to adjust charging rate to keep the fuel economy at 23-25. As I let off the throttle, it’ll maintain the 23-25mpg by increasing the charge rate. Conversely, as you climb a hill, it’ll decrease the charge rate or use the electric motor to add torque to still keep the fuel economy at 23-25 (depending on steepness of hill obviously).

When descending longer hills, I can watch it maintain that 23-25mpg for some time, and then you can tell when it stops charging and decides to maximize the efficiency of the ICE engine, the fuel economy will shoot up to max or closer, and then using the throttle appears to cause a fuel economy response you’d expect from a full gas 3.5

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