How does the hybrid battery interface with the 12v system?

[PBXL]

All my hybrid vehicles have had the traditional 12v battery. My amateur guess is that it still runs all the traditional things related to the gas engine.

In the case of my F150, a subwoofer and amplifier are hooked up to it, and I have a portable air compressor that I hook up to the 12v when I need it to air up. If you were to install a winch, you would also run the wiring from the 12v, and I have helped jump start a dead vehicle hooking up to the 12v. Basically, what I am saying is if they got rid of it, I wouldn't know how to do any of the above, so it may be there just to keep things familiar?

Sponsored

 

[OneFiddy]

How do you charge the 12v system the best on the Powerboost without trickle charger? Normal vehicles you just drive and it charges via alternator.

 

[Snakebitten]

Same but different
If the truck is in "ready" mode, the Powerboost uses the High Voltage battery to charge the low voltage batteries.

Or put another way, the DC/DC converter is playing a similar role as the traditional alternator.

 

[OneFiddy]

Same but different
If the truck is in "ready" mode, the Powerboost uses the High Voltage battery to charge the low voltage batteries.

Or put another way, the DC/DC converter is playing a similar role as the traditional alternator.

Must be the cold here but after doing some work on the truck running down the battery and driving not so much, to driving 30mins per day I couldn’t get rid of the low 12v state message. So I had to put the trickle charger on.

Will see if that helps.

 

[Snakebitten]

Must be the cold here but after doing some work on the truck running down the battery and driving not so much, to driving 30mins per day I couldn’t get rid of the low 12v state message. So I had to put the trickle charger on.

Will see if that helps.

I think these Powerboosts, as awesome as they are, have parasitic gremlins that can abuse the 12V battery at unpredictable circumstances. Or put another way, sometimes the truck shuts down properly, and other times it doesn't. There's nothing obvious about what makes one night a normal as-designed night, and the next night a parasitic draw night.

If I had to guess, one or more modules aren't always "hibernating" at the intended shutdown draw rate. According to the official documentation, by 75 minutes after shutting the truck down, what's supposed to be asleep is supposed to be asleep.

 

[Grayson]

I think these Powerboosts, as awesome as they are, have parasitic gremlins that can abuse the 12V battery at unpredictable circumstances. Or put another way, sometimes the truck shuts down properly, and other times it doesn't. There's nothing obvious about what makes one night a normal as-designed night, and the next night a parasitic draw night.

If I had to guess, one or more modules aren't always "hibernating" at the intended shutdown draw rate. According to the official documentation, by 75 minutes after shutting the truck down, what's supposed to be asleep is supposed to be asleep.

F-150's and other models have the deep sleep issue, regardless of engine choice or trim. In the picture the connector shown is related to the BCM and battery regulation; unplugging it will disable auto start stop but a CEL will be present. I am unaware if this is on the Powerboost. I had this issue in my 7.3 Tremor before the ECU went bad and after switching the battery in my GT350R for an AntiGravity after adjusting settings in ForScan.

To OP: I've wondered about the same issue with the audio system. I typically replace speakers and add a 4 channel along with a mono amp and sub. It can be done, it shouldn't cause any issues either short or long term however....Just be aware that depending on the dealer, warranty work could be denied because aftermarket electrical components were introduced to the vehicle giving them an easy out as ridiculous as it sounds. I am not adding an amp(s) to my truck because of this.

 

[Gros Ventre]

If you look into the PowerBoost, there is a belt starter along with the regular geared starter into the transmission. The belt starter is also an alternator/generator. Once the engine starts, it serves as a 12 VDC power source. Along the way the DC-DC convertor supports 12 VDC loads up to its labeled rating. As to running a winch... the Powerboost has the capability of running a 240 VAC winch. Warn ought to look into a winch rated to run at about 7kW (eg about 9 Hp)

 

[Snakebitten]

If you look into the PowerBoost, there is a belt starter along with the regular geared starter into the transmission. The belt starter is also an alternator/generator. Once the engine starts, it serves as a 12 VDC power source. Along the way the DC-DC convertor supports 12 VDC loads up to its labeled rating. As to running a winch... the Powerboost has the capability of running a 240 VAC winch. Warn ought to look into a winch rated to run at about 7kW (eg about 9 Hp)

This is the first time I have seen it confirmed that what Ford calls the "Belt Drive Starter/Generator" is both a 12V source of power and plays the role of an alternator.
Ford avoids the word alternator, it seems purposely.
I'm not saying I disagree, but I have not read that definitively before.

I have read that of four different conditions for starting the ICE, the traditional bendix/flywheel 12V starter is only used in one of the 4 conditions. I don't remember the wording exactly, but I believe it was one of the least common conditions of the 4. So the Powerboost doesn't often use the traditional starter. (if my recollection is accurate)

 

[Gros Ventre]

Well... they can't call it an alternator since the classic alternator cannot be run as a motor. So, it must be a DC machine set up to run as either a motor or generator (this is not a big deal, they just need to design it to operate that way). Recall that an alternator actually produces 3 phase AC power that is then rectified in a 6 diode bank to DC. Therein lies the rub since those diodes only work in one direction... I then infer it has to be a DC machine (with brushes etc.).

 

[Snakebitten]

Well... they can't call it an alternator since the classic alternator cannot be run as a motor. So, it must be a DC machine set up to run as either a motor or generator (this is not a big deal, they just need to design it to operate that way).

I don't know why I never looked at the wiring diagram to perhaps get some clarification, but in fact it does show the "Belt Driven Starter/Generator" as directly connecting to the 12V battery circuit

 

[Gros Ventre]

Interesting... those two Can bus leads (Can + and Can -) have to be controlling rotor element excitation. The idea is straightforward: With low excitation the machine operates as a motor absorbing power, raise the excitation and it becomes a generator producing power. It really is that simple. Of course designing that can bus and its computer controller is another matter... (EG that's how railroad locomotives go from producing power to run their traction motors, to using the traction motors as generators feeding power to resistor grids in the roof to slow their train by dissipating it as heat.)(...And you know, that's how the hybrid uses the truck's stored energy of motion to recharge their battery slowing the truck.).

 

[HammaMan]

The issue is that because it's AGM battery, the truck is very slow to feed it (charge it). Powerboost is a monster 12v machine. Between the starter generator that can output 280 amps, and the DC-DC converter that can output 220a continuous, there's 500 amps of 12v generation capability. The issue is that it thinks it charges it more than it does, and when that occurs, it backs off the voltage on the active 12v bus. It's not 14.4 you'd normally see. It's a moderated AGM float voltage that prevents further charging. There's also the telemetry unit which is pretty much always on until it runs the battery low and goes to sleep. The telemetry unit talks to all of the other systems whose sleep state is unknown / woken up / queried. That's where the issue resides. You may find more aggressive charging using sport mode as it only turns off the ice when stopped and runs the RPMs higher.

Happy dog mode (aka wake up w/ key fob proximity) is also another source of battery drain. I've set mine to charge to 94% and it's still inadequate (greeting mode off). No dead battery but the occasional deep sleep.

 

[Atlee]

All this talk about the electrical circuits, charging/not charging, 2 different means for starting the PB, DC to DC inverters, and I'm about ready to find a 1960 model truck.

 

[Snakebitten]

All this talk about the electrical circuits, charging/not charging, 2 different means for starting the PB, DC to DC inverters, and I'm about ready to find a 1960 model truck.

I ain't buying it. You are the perfect Powerboost'r in so many ways.

 

[Snakebitten]

The issue is that because it's AGM battery, the truck is very slow to feed it (charge it). Powerboost is a monster 12v machine. Between the starter generator that can output 280 amps, and the DC-DC converter that can output 220a continuous, there's 500 amps of 12v generation capability. The issue is that it thinks it charges it more than it does, and when that occurs, it backs off the voltage on the active 12v bus. It's not 14.4 you'd normally see. It's a moderated AGM float voltage that prevents further charging. There's also the telemetry unit which is pretty much always on until it runs the battery low and goes to sleep. The telemetry unit talks to all of the other systems whose sleep state is unknown / woken up / queried. That's where the issue resides. You may find more aggressive charging using sport mode as it only turns off the ice when stopped and runs the RPMs higher.

Happy dog mode (aka wake up w/ key fob proximity) is also another source of battery drain. I've set mine to charge to 94% and it's still inadequate (greeting mode off). No dead battery but the occasional deep sleep.

The best 12V explanation I've seen and makes so much more sense to me now.

Interesting you state you set yours to 94%
I can't remember exactly what the Forscan edits I saw suggested were, but I thought they were in increments of 5%? Wasn't factory setting 80%?

I'd love to hear what a possible explanation for the factory setting might be.

Thanks for sharing, by the way.

Sponsored