Oil Analysis at 7k miles (EcoBoost V6)

[Kayelmi]

Not true. Ecoboost engines do not run really rich on cold starts. Also, during the break-in period you will get more fuel dilution because the rings aren’t fully seated. If this concerns you, two pieces of advice from someone that tests these engines for a living. Wait for your rpms to go down before putting into drive, avoids extra fuel during the cold start. Reduce constant short trips, the engine is designed to use this fuel once the engine is oil is up to temp and the fuel evaporates out and back to the intake. Also, for those doing fuel samples, take note of what your “engine on” times are or take a sample after a long trip, when the fuel has had a chance to get out of the oil. Otherwise, fuel% in the oil is mostly meaningless.

Sponsored

 

[Snakebitten]

Why do most folks claim that the coldstart dumps extra fuel to get the "Cats fired" (for EPA)?

I'm only asking because you are contradicting a widespread common understanding. I'm not saying you are wrong of course. There are lots of widespread common beliefs based on false information. Lol

Coldstarts on every Ecoboost F150 I have had (3) are seemingly rich just based on smell and visibility of the exhaust. So I accepted the explanation.

Even my old Porsche (2005) flat6 coldstart smells and looks "rich" until the idle drops to normal.

I have a Yamaha with a 1200cc parallel twin in it and it has what the tuners describe as a "rich coldstart cycle" in the code until the ECT reaches 104F, or something like that. If that bikes engine dies before it reaches that temperature, it requires a "anti-flood" starting routine. Notorious for it.

Again, just asking why you would say the Ecoboost doesn't run rich on coldstart?

 

[Kayelmi]

Why do most folks claim that the coldstart dumps extra fuel to get the "Cats fired" (for EPA)?

I'm only asking because you are contradicting a widespread common understanding. I'm not saying you are wrong of course. There are lots of widespread common beliefs based on false information. Lol

Coldstarts on every Ecoboost F150 I have had (3) are seemingly rich just based on smell and visibility of the exhaust. So I accepted the explanation.

Even my old Porsche (2005) flat6 coldstart smells and looks "rich" until the idle drops to normal.

I have a Yamaha with a 1200cc parallel twin in it and it has what the tuners describe as a "rich coldstart cycle" in the code until the ECT reaches 104F, or something like that. If that bikes engine dies before it reaches that temperature, it requires a "anti-flood" starting routine. Notorious for it.

Again, just asking why you would say the Ecoboost doesn't run rich on coldstart?

I think it is somewhat a play on words. Rich means below stoich. Technically the engine “runs” lean. If you inject fuel to reach lambda=1(stoich), some of that fuel is lost to the oil, leaving the mixture lean. That being said, there are several other things occurring that make it seem rich. The lambda sensor will compensate for the lean mixture by requesting more fuel(only when closed loop, open loop is “mapped”), some fuel is not vaporized because the engine is cold, this results in soot(unburned hydrocarbons). Back the the “rich” comment. To light off a cat to a given efficiency you need heat flux. Heat flux is a combination of airflow(and fuel flow) and exhaust temperature. So yes, ”a bunch” of fuel is added, but that does not mean it is “rich”. This is also why you want to let the RPMs come down from start up. Closed loop, warmer, not demanding more fuel at a high dilution period of operation. Make sense?

 

[Snakebitten]

Sorta. Lol

I suspect this is a case of misuse of vernacular and so the average non-expert (me) actually gets the concept right but describes it incorrectly.

Or put another way, the knowledgeable expert hears the words and knows that it's not the accurate use of them.

I say "rich"
Expert says not rich technically, just more fuel.
We both say sooty exhaust.

And we both say fuel dilution of the oil, and thus a good idea to drive vehicle at normal operating temperature if possible in order to burn that fuel (vapors?) off.

Am I getting closer?

 

[Kayelmi]

Sorta. Lol

I suspect this is a case of misuse of vernacular and so the average non-expert (me) actually gets the concept right but describes it incorrectly.

Or put another way, the knowledgeable expert hears the words and knows that it's not the accurate use of them.

I say "rich"
Expert says not rich technically, just more fuel.
We both say sooty exhaust.

And we both say fuel dilution of the oil, and thus a good idea to drive vehicle at normal operating temperature if possible in order to burn that fuel (vapors?) off.

Am I getting closer?

Very close! Thanks for the civil conversation. I love what I do, but I know that, as a down to earth regular kinda guy, I have picked up a lot of engineerese over the years. There is just a lot of misinformation out there and I am here to help where I can.

Believe it or not, a majority of testing is done on the first 30 seconds of operation. It blows my mind how important those first 30 seconds are on FE, emissions, and engine wear.

Take dilution measurements for what they are. I know they change drastically through break-in and they will be greatly different depending on how it was driven, and most importantly, how it was “put away”.

 

[Snakebitten]

Civil discussion goes both ways. So thank you too.

But I'm way too old to get riled by the internet anyways. I thoroughly enjoy this modern way of life, but no way will I take it too seriously.

I recently purchased a new Powerboost and I think it had 47 miles on it. Considering that I was encouraged to "punch it and find out how good it runs" by the salesman, I had to conclude those 47 miles of test drives probably weren't done with a properly warmed up motor.

3700 miles now and no evidence of harm yet. I'm hoping the rings set well and I have many years/miles of no oil consumption or other poorly broken in symptoms.

Of course even that subject has opposing views on what's best.

 

[67440dodge]

Oil change procedure

Here's a link to the Blackstone page that describes in great detail how to properly change your own oil and obtain an oil sample in the process. It should initiate an interesting discussion.

Oh how true lot of it is!

 

[Kayelmi]

Civil discussion goes both ways. So thank you too.

But I'm way too old to get riled by the internet anyways. I thoroughly enjoy this modern way of life, but no way will I take it too seriously.

I recently purchased a new Powerboost and I think it had 47 miles on it. Considering that I was encouraged to "punch it and find out how good it runs" by the salesman, I had to conclude those 47 miles of test drives probably weren't done with a properly warmed up motor.

3700 miles now and no evidence of harm yet. I'm hoping the rings set well and I have many years/miles of no oil consumption or other poorly broken in symptoms.

Of course even that subject has opposing views on what's best.

I do find a lot of the break-in procedure interesting. In testing we run a fixed rpm and increase load…. then increase rpm and sweep through the load again. Our break-in is 40 hours. Obviously that isn’t how you can operate a car, Flooring it before break-in could be an issue, but the reality is there is a tune for that built into the vehicle to limit the load…. That’s why they do not recommend towing, because the power isn’t “unleashed” yet. A load of leaves vs. a load of bricks, but the load in he trailer(towing) vs. a load in the bed of a truck…. that load would never be 7000lbs though. Just a little insite. Food for thought. Good luck with the PowerBoost!

 

[DBL R]

I do find a lot of the break-in procedure interesting. In testing we run a fixed rpm and increase load…. then increase rpm and sweep through the load again. Our break-in is 40 hours. Obviously that isn’t how you can operate a car, Flooring it before break-in could be an issue, but the reality is there is a tune for that built into the vehicle to limit the load…. That’s why they do not recommend towing, because the power isn’t “unleashed” yet. A load of leaves vs. a load of bricks, but the load in he trailer(towing) vs. a load in the bed of a truck…. that load would never be 7000lbs though. Just a little insite. Food for thought. Good luck with the PowerBoost!

what rpm range do you start with? And how long until you increase that range?

 

[Kayelmi]

what rpm range do you start with? And how long until you increase that range?

In a vehicle, stay off the gas. Drive it easy. No hard pedal stuff, no towing/hauling heavy loads…. I believe for the first 1000 miles.

 

[RedTXV]

Good conversation here!

 

[Dmallen2010]

In a vehicle, stay off the gas. Drive it easy. No hard pedal stuff, no towing/hauling heavy loads…. I believe for the first 1000 miles.

So, they do limit the power for the first 1000 miles of break-in electronically?
What is the normal operating temp you need to achieve to burn off the fuel in the oil? I have a shorter commute ~10 miles, think it would be better to idle it longer (remote start) before driving (build more heat)?

 

[Snakebitten]

In my opinion, based on following an Ecoboost forum for MANY years, if your daily is a 3.5 Ecoboost and its typical drive will be insufficient to get the trucks fluids and block up to full operating temperatures, it would be very wise to intentionally do so on some occasions in order to accomplish what those operating parameters accomplish.
In addition, on perhaps a less frequent occasion, I would find a safe place to exercise the FULL functionality of the wastegates. Or to put another way, at least briefly operate the truck at full boost. Note that the truck is insanely capable of reaching high speeds in a very short amount of time, so you can't safely do this just anywhere.

One other option is to tow something heavy enough that the load creates the torque request with the same results but without high speeds.

It's anecdotal, of course, but there's considerable evidence that this motors long-term health is more likely if it is "worked" so-to-speak.

 

[Lippy]

In a vehicle, stay off the gas. Drive it easy. No hard pedal stuff, no towing/hauling heavy loads…. I believe for the first 1000 miles.

Very interesting info on this thread. Thank you.

I've been told (I believe from the folks at Hastings rings) that you don't want to tow and go too hard during break-in, and you don't want one constant RPM. But you also don't want to go too easy. The explanation given to me is that you want to provide some range of load and RPM to mate the rings to the cylinder walls. Is this not correct, or is it not applicable on modern engines with open and closed loop controls?

 

[Snakebitten]

Very interesting info on this thread. Thank you.

I've been told (I believe from the folks at Hastings rings) that you don't want to tow and go too hard during break-in, and you don't want one constant RPM. But you also don't want to go too easy. The explanation given to me is that you want to provide some range of load and RPM to mate the rings to the cylinder walls. Is this not correct, or is it not applicable on modern engines with open and closed loop controls?

I'm sure you are aware of the typical "break-in" debates and the various advice that they can attract, but I think your post is as good as you'll get.
The only thing that I would add is that engine breaking can be just as beneficial as putting a traditional load on the motor is in regards to getting a good piston to bore relationship. In other words, accelerate and then get out of the gas and let the motor pull itself down.
Basically loading the rings in BOTH directions.
Of course much of this is arguably moot if you were to purchase a truck with as little as 15-20 or more miles already on it because of delivery or test drive miles.

Sponsored