Increasing Usable Powerboost Battery storage capacity

[ldsavow]

I came across this discussion on another forum and wondered if anyone here had found a way to TUNE these settings??

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I heard in a youtube comment (so take this for what its worth) that the battery is software limited to a 45-55% state of discharge. That seems overly conservative to me, and I have heard an (equally unreliable/unsourced) estimate of 40-70% state of discharge limits. If you could actually get 2 MPG out of a greater battery capacity and assume that you'll keep the truck for 10 years or more, then using tuning software to increase those limits to something more like 20-80% state of discharge would unlock a lot of extra power without requiring a larger battery. That assumes that Ford's SoD limits were VERY conservative in order to prevent battery warranty claims, so we'd need definitive data to determine if this is a real option.

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In reply to the above.

I monitor the charge level of the lithium battery using a FIXD OBD2 connector and app. I found that the battery gets up to 70% charge maximum, and I can't get the truck to go electric at that point. Also, it will not go electric if the charge drops below 41%. I have seen the battery in the high 30s%, Therefore, I try to accelerate/coast/regenerative brake to keep the charge between 41% and 70%, so I can use as much electric power as possible. I am averaging 23 MPG near Denver, in late spring (warm), with 85 Octane regular gas, and no large loads, with half mountain highway (less than 65 MPH) and half city driving. In this last tank of gas (see picture), I've used almost 40% electric power, averaged 24.6 MPG, but my average speed has been about 30 MPH.

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Soooo
I am wondering if anyone on our forum has considered this?
I would LOVE to upgrade my PB Battery to something bigger if there were an aftermarket alternative to the TINY little 1.5kW battery she comes with, but I am guessing we are a ways off from seeing that for a few years yet.

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[Snakebitten]

I monitor the SOC, as well as the Rate of charge/discharge in Amps.

Mine operates on a consistent basis between 42%<>63%

It's true that some unique circumstances can bring it below 42%, and some circumstances can bring it above 63%, but after many many miles of flat-landing, I consider it NORMAL to be 42<>63

Based on the circumstances that occasionally gets it above 63%, I would assume folks that live in hilly conditions are far more likely to see a SOC in the 63<>70%. I say that because the one circumstance that it appears Ford doesn't squander, is regenerative braking. If my truck is already at the typical threshold of 63% and I have an opportunity to apply regenerative braking, THAT is when I have seen SOC above ~63%

I would LOVE to be able to "tune" the factory parameters to expand what on my truck is 42<>63 to 30<>70

Here are the PIDs I watch for the Hybrid SOC and Rate of charge/discharge

 

[DBL R]

I monitor the SOC, as well as the Rate of charge/discharge in Amps.

Mine operates on a consistent basis between 42%<>63%

It's true that some unique circumstances can bring it below 42%, and some circumstances can bring it above 63%, but after many many miles of flat-landing, I consider it NORMAL to be 42<>63

Based on the circumstances that occasionally gets it above 63%, I would assume folks that live in hilly conditions are far more likely to see a SOC in the 63<>70%. I say that because the one circumstance that it appears Ford doesn't squander, is regenerative braking. If my truck is already at the typical threshold of 63% and I have an opportunity to apply regenerative braking, THAT is when I have seen SOC above ~63%

I would LOVE to be able to "tune" the factory parameters to expand what on my truck is 42<>63 to 30<>70

Here are the PIDs I watch for the Hybrid SOC and Rate of charge/discharge

I’m seeing similar SOC. My max amps in and out spike around 125.

 

[Gros Ventre]

My inference is that Ford set that range of SOC for two reasons: 1st it is a linear region of SOC vs terminal voltage so that the truck's computer system can accurately operate and 2nd that range of SOC will provide the longest life of the battery. From these two things you then get a battery size and motor size.

 

[HammaMan]

I’m seeing similar SOC. My max amps in and out spike around 125.

35kW on the money -- 47hp.

It's got a 160a fuse on it I believe. That's the rated output of the motor (or input) As a generator it's rated to 40kW

 

[HammaMan]

My inference is that Ford set that range of SOC for two reasons: 1st it is a linear region of SOC vs terminal voltage so that the truck's computer system can accurately operate and 2nd that range of SOC will provide the longest life of the battery. From these two things you then get a battery size and motor size.

It's purely a battery longevity thing. None of the other components care about their voltage. The PPOB and the motor are both full inverters so they're making their own voltage / frequencies. They just wall off a large amount of the battery as it can be charged and discharged substantially in traffic situations. That's about the only way they could offer the warranty they do. I just hope they become more open with their architecture / allow replacement battery programming capabilities instead of keeping a fully walled off area that only they can touch. They do this with their BEV vehicles like mach e and lightning as well. The 21 mach-e GT batt is rated at 88 kWh even though it's a 98.7 kWh pack. They upped the rating for 22/23 MY to '91 kWh' using the exact pack. They then OTA'd an update for the 21 unlocking the 'reachable' 91 kWh mark while still retaining 7.7 kWh as spare capacity. This gives 1), good insurance on the low state of charge side protecting the battery from someone who'd run it down and leave it 'dead' as it's still at a safe voltage w/ 3-4kWh still left, and 2) leaves room to open up more of the pack as it degrades -- as in the pack eventually loses capacity, but the buffer can be used as a way to hide the degradation. Tesla gives customers more access to their full capacity, but does so at a noticeable range degradation / aging cyle.

Depending on how things are monitored, their BECM can be retained while installing tuned sensor bypasses. It'd be a conductor of a specific resistance that would 'hide' the fact that there's more energy on tap / not as much going into the batt. ie: double the battery size while halfling the amperage the computer thinks is flowing in/out of the battery. Not sure just how much it can be played with. If they expect 50% battery degradation by the end of warranty to get themselves beyond replacing it, there may be healthy margins to at least be able to double the Wh capacity without triggering other things. There's just no telling how closely components are being validated against each other.

It is quite disappointing to see the fact that 1, the battery is small to begin with, and 2, we can't access but ~400 Wh of energy from it. Hopefully the customer data is good / shows the battery is healthy and we could possibly see a wider window open up like 37/74%. That'd bring utilization up to 150% of current.

 

[mbouck3]

I monitor the SOC, as well as the Rate of charge/discharge in Amps.

Mine operates on a consistent basis between 42%<>63%

It's true that some unique circumstances can bring it below 42%, and some circumstances can bring it above 63%, but after many many miles of flat-landing, I consider it NORMAL to be 42<>63

Based on the circumstances that occasionally gets it above 63%, I would assume folks that live in hilly conditions are far more likely to see a SOC in the 63<>70%. I say that because the one circumstance that it appears Ford doesn't squander, is regenerative braking. If my truck is already at the typical threshold of 63% and I have an opportunity to apply regenerative braking, THAT is when I have seen SOC above ~63%

I would LOVE to be able to "tune" the factory parameters to expand what on my truck is 42<>63 to 30<>70

Here are the PIDs I watch for the Hybrid SOC and Rate of charge/discharge

If you do not mind me asking what are you using to monitor your amps and voltages?

 

[Gros Ventre]

I don't agree. The selection of a linear portion of the charge curve is quite useful. As to things not caring about the voltage... Oh come on. There's a careful design process that calculates the interaction of components.

 

[imnuts]

I've seen this question multiple times here about larger batteries. How often are people getting their battery "full" and running in electric only until the SOC is low enough to recharge the battery BEFORE the engine kicks back on due to power demand?

I have a very hybrid friendly drive and routinely get ⅓ of my miles in electric only. Despite that, there's only one stretch of road on my daily commute I could actually use added battery capacity, and it would only get me maybe an extra ¼ mi of electric only driving. The electric motor doesn't have the power to maintain anything more than 40-45 on even minor inclines. I checked the off-road screen many times, and 1° as measured by the truck is too steep.

Sure, a larger battery would help idle time and generator mode, but I feel like these aren't typical usage cases that would see large added benefit. Now, if you had a larger motor that could actually propel the truck, maybe 50% greater power output, then I could definitely see the benefit to the larger battery pack.

 

[Snakebitten]

If you do not mind me asking what are you using to monitor your amps and voltages?

OBDLink App on Android
OBDLink MX+ adapter
Ford/Lincoln/Mercury PID package add-on in the app itself

For a Powerboost with CCD and the magnificent 3.5 Ecoboost (I've been a huge fan for a decade), the OBDLink package is a nerd's delight.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

I've seen this question multiple times here about larger batteries. How often are people getting their battery "full" and running in electric only until the SOC is low enough to recharge the battery BEFORE the engine kicks back on due to power demand?

I have a very hybrid friendly drive and routinely get ⅓ of my miles in electric only. Despite that, there's only one stretch of road on my daily commute I could actually use added battery capacity, and it would only get me maybe an extra ¼ mi of electric only driving. The electric motor doesn't have the power to maintain anything more than 40-45 on even minor inclines. I checked the off-road screen many times, and 1° as measured by the truck is too steep.

Sure, a larger battery would help idle time and generator mode, but I feel like these aren't typical usage cases that would see large added benefit. Now, if you had a larger motor that could actually propel the truck, maybe 50% greater power output, then I could definitely see the benefit to the larger battery pack.

I completely agree with this. Having an electric motor large enough accelerate the truck from a stop to say 35-45 on surface streets with throttle pressure greater than .02 lbs and no ICE engagement would be wonderful. The current configuration of firing the ICE with even the lightest of throttle absolutely kills the mpg for city driving.

 

[LHoffmanjr22]

OBDLink App on Android
OBDLink MX+ adapter
Ford/Lincoln/Mercury PID package add-on in the app itself

For a Powerboost with CCD and the magnificent 3.5 Ecoboost (I've been a huge fan for a decade), the OBDLink package is a nerd's delight.

Just out of curiosity, could this OBD reader also be used to make changes via Forscan?

 

[LHoffmanjr22]

I completely agree with this. Having an electric motor large enough accelerate the truck from a stop to say 35-45 on surface streets with throttle pressure greater than .02 lbs and no ICE engagement would be wonderful. The current configuration of firing the ICE with even the lightest of throttle absolutely kills the mpg for city driving.

I am really hoping that the "2nd generation" Powerboost has a more robust and powerful electric motor along with a bigger battery. Though, the Powerboost can't really spare any more payload either. HDPP available on a "2nd generation" Powerboost would be great in theory. But I am not an engineer who knows if that's feasible in the real world.

 

[ldsavow]

I've seen this question multiple times here about larger batteries. How often are people getting their battery "full" and running in electric only until the SOC is low enough to recharge the battery BEFORE the engine kicks back on due to power demand?

I have a very hybrid friendly drive and routinely get ⅓ of my miles in electric only. Despite that, there's only one stretch of road on my daily commute I could actually use added battery capacity, and it would only get me maybe an extra ¼ mi of electric only driving. The electric motor doesn't have the power to maintain anything more than 40-45 on even minor inclines. I checked the off-road screen many times, and 1° as measured by the truck is too steep.

Sure, a larger battery would help idle time and generator mode, but I feel like these aren't typical usage cases that would see large added benefit. Now, if you had a larger motor that could actually propel the truck, maybe 50% greater power output, then I could definitely see the benefit to the larger battery pack.

My case must be different, but what else is new.
I see my engine shut off on the Interstate REGULARLY and run in FULL ELECTRIC mode on a regular basis. But this only lasts for a couple minutes MAX and then the engine comes right back on.

As for me, a bigger batter or at least a larger use window of the existing battery would be MOST welcome.

 

[ldsavow]

I am really hoping that the "2nd generation" Powerboost has a more robust and powerful electric motor along with a bigger battery. Though, the Powerboost can't really spare any more payload either. HDPP available on a "2nd generation" Powerboost would be great in theory. But I am not an engineer who knows if that's feasible in the real world.

If they offered me a 5kW or 10kW battery option, I would WRITE THE CHECK and buy another new truck.

I spend a good deal of time driving in the mountains.
LOTS of Ups and DOWNS.
I could be recovering MUCH MORE ENERGY on those LONG DOWNHILL descents than the tiny 1.5kW battery currently allows me.

But then again, I would be completely in favor of a Plug-In Hybrid option if I had a BIGGER BATTERY as well.

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