Ford cutting workforce at F-150 Lightning plant in Dearborn

[Polo08816]

I will NEVER buy an EV anything.........

I will...

... when they triple or quadruple the range, cost less than ICE pickup trucks, and improve its towing/payload capabilities.

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[KTM753]

Series electric Ram looks enticing...

Lightning not so much...

 

[HammaMan]

Its imbedded into the OnStar crap. I'm sure there is an antenna somewhere but I'm not convinced it doesn't daisy chain somehow onto my cell phone either.

I'll happily pick up my Ford early next month. If you want a Chevy with low miles, let me know. I know a guy named Chip in Iowa that's about to have one hit the local market soon.

GM is some shady bastards doing that. They don't even give you free app remote vehicle control either like fordpass does. They want $15/mo just to control / monitor the vehicle via app. Ford does it free w/ fordpass. The cell antennas are on the roof, there should be a spot or two where the coax runs up to them. GPS and sat radio is up there too though, all discrete coax runs. Just have to find the cellular specific ones and only use AA / AAP.

 

[Los150]

https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...ric-vehicle-center-dearborn-cuts/73117641007/

Shocker!! Not!
EV sales are decreasing for all manufacturers. Tesla is discounting them now, in an effort to drum up interest.

 

[Larry Arizona]

FYI, I drive a Lightning. Coming from a previous ICE F-150 (and having driven a RAM and Tundra for work), I would never go back. In my very humble opinion, it's better at everything, even towing. Respectfully (not trying to start a fight), here are some of the statements I hear about EVs:

Can it tow 320 miles in a straight shot? Nope. Can I tow 160 miles which is more than enough for where we live and travel to? Yep. Towing actually feels more responsive, smoother, and with more control than an ICE. Soon that 160 mile limitation won't be as big of a deal since pull thru chargers are currently being built and the infrastructure ramped up.

What about Fast Charging, it's so unreliable and hard to find?
Access to Superchargers has made that a thing of simplicity. I have yet to have an issue where I run out of charge because a DCFC (DC Fast Charger) is too far away, or not working. Does it happen? Yes. Do ICE vehicles run out of gas and need someone to go get a can at the closest gas station? Yes.

But DCFC takes so long...you have to stop all the time.
I don't know about you, but every 4-5 hours (my range) I need to stop for a pee break, snacks, or food. Since I have kids, a wife, and dogs; make that every 2-3 hours. Why do I need to be able to drive more than 5 hours at a time if I struggle to even sit in a vehicle that long with my family? I plug in, go get my stuff done, and by the time I'm done I have enough juice to keep going until the next pee break. Until you actually use an EV, everything seems scary.

But, electricity is so expensive to charge up your EV.
I fill up at home. I pay $0.074 per kW during off-peak (when I charge). My "tank" gets 320 miles. It costs me less than $10 to get 320 miles. If you DCFC, then yes, the price is comparable to gas (not more).

But, they have battery issues after 100,000 miles.
This is the biggest myth about Electric Vehicles. The batteries don't just die at 100k miles, yes they lose some capacity. A Lightning owner just hit close to 100k miles and they still have 97% of their original capacity remaining. So, instead of getting 320 miles of range, they get 310. Is that broken? Nope. Does the battery need to be replaced? Nope.

But, ICE vehicles don't have to worry about range loss with battery degradation.
Do you think that after 100k miles you are still getting your full MPG? No. Are you even getting 97% of you previous MPG?

But, they catch on fire.
ICE vehicle are 20 to 30 times more likely to catch on fire based on the amount of ICE on the road and percentage of them that have caught on fire.

I'm honestly not trying to start a fight, or even make a claim the Lightning is better than an ICE truck. I'm not trying to convince you to buy one, get the truck YOU like and the truck that makes sense for you. I love my truck, you love yours....awesome! There are use cases where an EV doesn't make sense. Just trying to point out how exaggerated a lot of what has been reported in the media is. EV's aren't as scary as some people make them out to be. For those that are so anti-EV, go test drive a Lightning, it may surprise you.

Serious question, when towing, based on how chargers are set up for single vehicles, did you have to decouple the trailer in a parking lot, charge truck, then hook up trailer?

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

Serious question, when towing, based on how chargers are set up for single vehicles, did you have to decouple the trailer in a parking lot, charge truck, then hook up trailer?

Of the 4 times I've had to charge while towing, I had to do that twice. The other two times I got lucky and caught an end charger with open parking spots next to it in the middle of a large (empty) parking lot. Doing it once or twice a trip is not that big of a deal to me. Doing it more than that wouldn't be worth it.

 

[HammaMan]

Shocker!! Not!
EV sales are decreasing for all manufacturers. Tesla is discounting them now, in an effort to drum up interest.

What? EV sales aren't decreasing, LOL

Where do people come up with this stuff

ICE sales are however -- they peaked about 5 years ago and have been steadily declining.

Serious question, what media sources do you get news from?

 

[GypsyDanger]

Tbh I would get one as my daily commuter, but I just cant be comfortable with one as my sole vehicle.

In the future when I can get a used one for dirt cheap(sub 20k) and they proved to still have decent capacity left i may snatch one.

Preferably Hybrids get better, I still think a 2.7 hybrid would be a awesome configuration.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

@Smokewagun or @BennyTheBeaver, does the Lightning record your telematics like GM does and sell it to LexisNexis?
I wonder if this is the case for every EV or just GM. I know Tesla records your driving but I don't think they share it. I currently drive a '23 Chevy 3.0 Duramax and it is great. On the highway, I get nearly 30 MPG and it has good power. I think the lack of 110 outlets is well, lacking and I don't appreciate the increased expense for diesel fuel but that isn't GMs fault. What is absolutely SHITTY though is when I pulled my LexisNexis "Consumer Report" (the same thing all insurance companies use to raise your rates), it tracks and logs every single trip I make no matter how short and reports it so my insurance company sees it. Am I driving like shit? No. I simply do not want my time, speed, location, route, or anything else tracked by anybody. Thus, I ordered another F150 and will be picking it up in 2 weeks (it has already arrived at Granger).

That said, I know I can unplug the OnStar module under my dash and trigger a check engine light. I'd rather cut my losses and say FUCK GM. Back to my original question though, does the Lightning track and log your information and sell it to LexisNexis like GM? I know Toyota/Lexus do not (they may track and log it for all I know but I do know they don't share it).

Still, even after all of that, I think EV technology is close to where we need to be but just not quite where I need it to be. I need 300 miles towing and 600 miles empty. I know the charging infrastructure is being installed and the grids are slowly being modernized so I am not too concerned about that. I need towing and empty range. Until then, I applaud everyone for buying one and braving the market as it's a new technology. Without people buying them first, they will never get better. Soon, probably in 8-10 years, the motor, battery, and charging technologies will have improved to the point to make it more viable for me, just not today.

I have purposely avoided staying on topic with the original title of this thread because I have my own opinions about unions and I will keep those to myself so I do not offend anyone BUT that dammed telematics shit has to go away!!

I do not actually know the answer to this. What I do know is that in the Connected Services section of the truck, they do give you a warning that you are about to share your data. As I recall, those settings you have the option via a toggle whether or not you want to participate.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

Shocker!! Not!
EV sales are decreasing for all manufacturers. Tesla is discounting them now, in an effort to drum up interest.

You do realize the number 1 selling vehicle on the planet (yes, planet, not just the USA) in 2023 was the Tesla Model Y, right? That includes all ICE and EV.

 

[Los150]

Its imbedded into the OnStar crap. I'm sure there is an antenna somewhere but I'm not convinced it doesn't daisy chain somehow onto my cell phone either.

That was the one thing I was not a fan of, when I bought my C8 'Vette.
All the damn Onstar nanny crap, monitoring and sharing your driving habits. It's a sports car, built for driving fast. Of course I was going to drive it fast. Add to that, the added costs just to have access to the basics like lock/unlock. Never paid for that with any other brand.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

Tbh I would get one as my daily commuter, but I just cant be comfortable with one as my sole vehicle.

In the future when I can get a used one for dirt cheap(sub 20k) and they proved to still have decent capacity left i may snatch one.

Preferably Hybrids get better, I still think a 2.7 hybrid would be a awesome configuration.

If you can get over it being a Ram, you should look at the Ramcharger.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/electric/ram-1500-ramcharger.html

Sorry, I know I'm way off topic now.

 

[GypsyDanger]

If you can get over it being a Ram, you should look at the Ramcharger.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/electric/ram-1500-ramcharger.html

Sorry, I know I'm way way off topic now.

Some mountains are just not worth climbing.

 

[Los150]

What? EV sales aren't decreasing, LOL

Where do people come up with this stuff

ICE sales are however -- they peaked about 5 years ago and have been steadily declining.

Serious question, what media sources do you get news from?

It wasn't just one article. It's a bunch over the last 2-3 months.
ABC, CNBC, Bloomberg, USA Today, Business Insider, Fox, etc....

Maybe globally it's different but California saw EV sales drop 10% in Q4 '23.
I think many bought into the hype and then realized it's not practical for them. One of my cousins bought a Tesla and has to compete with others in his building for one of the coveted chargers. Leave it in too long and you'll get hit with "idle fees" because you know.....keep it fair so everyone can have a chance to charge.

By the way, the reason cited by Forbes were:

• Unfamiliarity with the product
• Lingering Concerns of Range
• Limited Charging Network
• Early Adopters Have Been Fulfilled
• High-Interest Rates

 

[hotrodmex]

does the Lightning record your telematics like GM does and sell it to LexisNexis?

I've seen at least 3 F150 owners (I think 1 Lightning and 2 ICE) that got their LN report and had 0 driving information from Ford on it (full data sharing enabled, not on usage based insurance).

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