DOE - eGallon cost comparisons by State & USA

[EaglesPDX]

Yup, and I doubt you would get 23mpg on the highway in the 2015 either - unless you are driving 45 in the slow lane.

2022 F150 is rated 23/23 so would probably get the 23 miles per gallon so the comparison is good, $1.75 "gallon" for the F150EV. I think that works out to a $1,200 savings per year on energy.

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[EaglesPDX]

That may be how they’re doing it, but it’s really nonsensical. That’s like having a different price per gallon of gasoline depending on the MPG of a car.

It's this kind of voodoo science that gives ammunition to the anti-EV crowd.

Not really. The use the same baseline for each state as far as EV and ICE usage and the apply each states gasoline costs and electricity costs. They make a constant for total energy usage in order to compare the variables of gasoline and electric costs.

It does give people a broad idea for cost comparison. Do what @Tony Burgh did for your specific situation.

 

[sotek2345]

2022 F150 is rated 23/23 so would probably get the 23 miles per gallon so the comparison is good, $1.75 "gallon" for the F150EV. I think that works out to a $1,200 savings per year on energy.

My (recently traded) 2016 XLT with a 2.7L is rated at 18 / 23. I got 16 on a 2400 mile road trip over the summer and usually got 14 to 15 around town. They brought up a heavier truck (Lariat vs. XLT) with a less fuel efficient engine.

 

[shutterbug]

That may be how they’re doing it, but it’s really nonsensical. That’s like having a different price per gallon of gasoline depending on the MPG of a car.

It's this kind of voodoo science that gives ammunition to the anti-EV crowd.

Agree to disagree. This formula tells what it costs to move an average ICE vehicle vs BEV the same distance. So if you drive 12,000 miles a year, you can that divide by 25 and multiply by the cost of gallon or egallon and get an estimate of fuel cost for comparison.

 

[Maquis]

Agree to disagree. This formula tells what it costs to move an average ICE vehicle vs BEV the same distance. So if you drive 12,000 miles a year, you can that divide by 25 and multiply by the cost of gallon or egallon and get an estimate of fuel cost for comparison.

Everything you say is correct.

There are 2 components to consider when comparing the fuel cost per mile driven between an EV and an ICE.
One is the cost of fuel. The other is vehicle efficiency. The entire EV advantage is vehicle efficiency, not fuel cost.

My opinion is that to understand the complete picture, these need to be looked at separately.

In the end, the overall comparison (that includes both components) is perfectly valid and is properly expressed in $ per mile driven.

But to invent some imaginary unit of measure (E-gallon) to make people feel good about their raw fuel cost is just silly. It also leads to bad conclusions.

If I use the “E-gallon” cost for my state ($1.12) and the EPA rating (93 MPGe) for my Mach-E, I get a cost per mile of $0.012.
If I use the consumption rate to achieve the EPA range (3.1 miles per kWh) and the true average residential rate in my state ($0.119), my cost per mile is $0.038, which is triple using the fake E-gallon method.

 

[jefro]

KW/mile or miles/Kw is really the only efficiency. There could be gains from lack of maintenance time and materials. Not dumping Mobil 1 into my EV saves me money and time.

Currently I don't pay road taxes for fuel other than plates and I'm sure they will get me on that.

 

[shutterbug]

Everything you say is correct.

There are 2 components to consider when comparing the fuel cost per mile driven between an EV and an ICE.
One is the cost of fuel. The other is vehicle efficiency. The entire EV advantage is vehicle efficiency, not fuel cost.

My opinion is that to understand the complete picture, these need to be looked at separately.

In the end, the overall comparison (that includes both components) is perfectly valid and is properly expressed in $ per mile driven.

But to invent some imaginary unit of measure (E-gallon) to make people feel good about their raw fuel cost is just silly. It also leads to bad conclusions.

If I use the “E-gallon” cost for my state ($1.12) and the EPA rating (93 MPGe) for my Mach-E, I get a cost per mile of $0.012.
If I use the consumption rate to achieve the EPA range (3.1 miles per kWh) and the true average residential rate in my state ($0.119), my cost per mile is $0.038, which is triple using the fake E-gallon method.

I don't understand your math. MPGe helps you compare different EVs to each other. eGallon lets you compare EVs to ICE.

For example Escape goes 100 on 3.8 gallons. That's 26 miles per gallon. MME is 37 kWh for 100 miles. That's 9.62 kWh for 26 miles. Multiply that by the $0.119 you get $1.14. Divide that by 26, you get $0.044 per mile. Now if you take MMEs 37 kWh and divide by 100 and multiply by $.119, you get $0.044 per mile.

 

[ExCivilian]

Currently I don't pay road taxes for fuel other than plates and I'm sure they will get me on that.

This is one of my concerns long-term. CA is already aggressively pushing for increased EV fees to pay for those lost gas taxes so it's only a matter of time before cost parity between gas and electricity occur. It's similar to what CA utility companies did to us rooftop solar owners where they choked adoption with fees and aggressive shifting away from fair net-metering policies. In my specific case, the net-metering contract I signed was that my over-production would be banked, utilized on demand, and then credited back at the end of the year "true-up."

The following year they classified my overproduction as a "net producer," "sold" me retail rate power on use, and then "paid" me at wholesale rates thereby effectively doubling my break-even out to twenty years! Given that I expect wholesale pricing to drop over time as field-solar rolls out I suspect it's just a matter of time for other potential customers to realize it's become increasingly difficult to justify roof-top solar. Current NEM contracts are even worse. These were the types of shenanigans that effectively killed roof-top solar in AZ from what I read. We just purchased a new house a few months ago and I took the $20K I was going to spend on panels and dumped it into SCE stock that pays enough dividends to completely offset my energy bill. It doesn't fit with my ideology but there it is.

There's another potential hitch that I have to consider after the recent shenanigans Newsom is playing with our gas rates. This month I started seeing a bunch of concern over people's gas bills tripling on nextdoor and Facebook. Checked my bills and sure enough they were all roughly triple what they should have been and it wasn't due to increased winter consumption--each bill had a huge red flag notice indicating the increased price was due to a rate hike.

I don't know how it is in other states, but in CA we only have one energy provider per county. I can't, for example, pit SDG&E's prices against SCE's. I'm a captive customer. Once CA drivers are primarily on electric, I don't see how government regulators are going to resist the temptation to simply shift rates when they need to. Instead of having to pass increased gas taxes, subject to public scrutiny and political pressure, energy rates are set by unelected officials with much less red tape.

I think EV proponents really need to get ahead of these potential issues and push for legislative protection before customers get locked into these captive pricing structures. There may not be 100 gas companies but I can price shop 100 different gas stations' prices within a few miles of my home.

 

[Maquis]

I don't understand your math. MPGe helps you compare different EVs to each other. eGallon lets you compare EVs to ICE.

For example Escape goes 100 on 3.8 gallons. That's 26 miles per gallon. MME is 37 kWh for 100 miles. That's 9.62 kWh for 26 miles. Multiply that by the $0.119 you get $1.14. Divide that by 26, you get $0.044 per mile. Now if you take MMEs 37 kWh and divide by 100 and multiply by $.119, you get $0.044 per mile.

MPGe is not some made up number. It’s the EPA rated efficiency in miles per kWh converting the denominator into gasoline equivalent. One gallon of gasoline contains the same energy as 33 kWh of electricity. It can be use to compare EV to ICE. An EV rated 90 MPGe will cost about 1/3 per mile to fuel as an ICE that gets 30 MPG.

An MME will not use 37 kWh in 100 miles (EPA rating). It’s rated at either 300 or 270 with the 88 kWh battery. That’s either 30 or 33 kWh per 100. So adjusting for that, your numbers match mine almost exactly. That’s the true fuel cost per mile. We are in agreement.

All anyone needs to do is calculate fuel cost per mile the way you and I just did. The problem is, there’s no logical way to get there using the fake “e gallon” price.

 

[shutterbug]

An MME will not use 37 kWh in 100 miles (EPA rating)

EPA says it will. This is from my window sticker

You see where it says 37 kWh per 100 miles? What it really means, is 37 kWh per 100 miles. I calculated it both ways and came up with the same number for the cost per mile.

 

[EaglesPDX]

CA is already aggressively pushing for increased EV fees to pay for those lost gas taxes so it's only a matter of time before cost parity between gas and electricity occur.

ICE and gasoline usage are going to disappear so financing roads and transportation has to adapt. Gasoline tax pays about 20%(?) of road costs with general income taxes and fees covering most of the costs.

Currently its best use is to increase cost of oil to discourage usage.

To pay for roads and transportation, basic revenue taxes since everyone benefits from the roads even if they don't use them.

 

[AgieF150]

My electricity cost per kw delivered is close to $0.21, my Mach-E averages 2.4 miles per KW

my Lexus RX 450H averages 28-29mpg highway and 32 around town, gas is around $3/g

i don’t see much of help driving pure electric Vehicle.

hybrids are much better option.

 

[AgieF150]

ICE and gasoline usage are going to disappear so financing roads and transportation has to adapt. Gasoline tax pays about 20%(?) of road costs with general income taxes and fees covering most of the costs.

Currently its best use is to increase cost of oil to discourage usage.

To pay for roads and transportation, basic revenue taxes since everyone benefits from the roads even if they don't use them.

soon you will see a road tax on EV, with current price structure for me it will be same or more to drive EV vs ICE after the tax

 

[LightningShow]

I looked at real costs and imaginary (EPA) mileage estimates.
2015 Lariat 3.5 eb - 23 mpg highway (from sticker)
2022 Lightning er - 2.16 miles per kwh (300 miles from 138 kwh)
Sunoco regular - $3.499 per gallon
Duquesne Light - $0.166 per kwh (total rolled in delivery, taxes, etc)

Costs per mile for fuel is almost exactly half for Lighning compared to 2015 Lariat. Or $1.75 per gallon gasoline equivalent.

This is always how I've made the comparison as well. TBH I've never even bothered to look into what goes into "MPGe". I look at my electric bill and figure out how much I will pay per mile.

You'll do a little better on the Lightning, theoretically, because the useable battery is only 131kWh.

 

[Tony Burgh]

This is always how I've made the comparison as well. TBH I've never even bothered to look into what goes into "MPGe". I look at my electric bill and figure out how much I will pay per mile.

You'll do a little better on the Lightning, theoretically, because the useable battery is only 131kWh.

Being a retired engineer on the anal retentive side, I have never changed my Trip 2 meter since I bought the truck. My average mpg over 71000 miles is 16.8. That is actually what that truck gets with my driving habits and location. But I had no “actual” equivalent value for the Lightning so that’s why I used projected EPA numbers to make it an apples to apples comparison. In a couple years I have real EV data.

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