Will this idea work to power my house off 7.2 kw Pro Power?

[v2h8484]

You no longer have a grounding system.

That's misleading since there is no grounding system to begin with as the truck body is not connected to earth (e.g. ground rod). Are you saying it's not safe to just plug loads into the truck?

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[CLT-PB]

That's misleading since there is no grounding system to begin with as the truck body is not connected to earth (e.g. ground rod). Are you saying it's not safe to just plug loads into the truck?

Anyone know of a professional electrician on here who can answer definitively? I agree it seems the same as plugging something in to the truck, but what do I know. What I do know is everything downstream of the plug would still be grounded to earth through the main panel.

 

[HammaMan]

I disagree with what HammaMan has stated about the electrical code as technology changes. It’s a case of it’s not broken don’t fix it. The Electrical Code is updated every 3 years, largely as technology has improved and impacted the electrical system in homes and buildings. Ie, having to increase the size of neutrals to carry the excess imbalanced current caused by computers and electronics that circuit breakers couldn’t ”see”.

There's a whole lot of words here, not much substance. There's nothing special about power rectification that makes it so a breaker cannot 'see' it. Motors and resistance loads are and have been the consumers of energy. Water heaters, stoves, hair dryers, AC systems are the major power consumers. Avg laptop uses 30w while a desktop with decent GPU or a game system are 500w loaded, 70w idle. Larger neutrals? Do you mean from the panel to the transformer? A change that didn't have a single IRL example to point to, purely theory based -- wholly tangential.

The Gound, the “magical” saftey wire has been in the Code since the 1920s. as a saftey! The ground is supposed to be bonded to all of the metal systems in your house. Duct work, plumbing, cable tv, phone wires.

You're conflating things here. Bonding of discrete metal runs in a structure to the earth is required because the transformer (and every utility pole heading back to the source) is doing the same. It's actually dual role, 1 to direct lightning to earth, 2 to provide a path for a short trying to reach the earth, to the earth. The source of the electricity uses earth as a return path and necessitates it.

The ground is supposed to supply an electrical path that has absolutely no resistance back to the panel. If there is a short circuit it allows a huge, instant current flow that trips the circuit breaker.

It's a redundant path for appliances with metal casings as the hot conductor wants to get back to earth because it's part of the equation due to transformer earth bonding.

If you remove the trucks ground and provide power to your house through the PowerBoost this safety is removed! This is your primary safety. GFI protection is secondary as well as Arc Fault protection.

This is false. Power from the truck is not trying to reach earth. I don't believe you truly understand electricity as this one point seems to allude you. Its GFI protection remains in-tact. Isolating the grounding conductor at the structure doesn't change this. If enough current to cause a threat to life doesn't return on the neutral or the other leg, it trips. This is the single point you don't grasp for whatever reason. The GFI is looking for 'missing' current. Furthermore the trip point for the 7.2kW system in the powerboost will trip immediately at 32 amps, far sooner than a 15a breaker will.

You may not be having an inspector over, but the Electrical Code is written to provide protection to lives, buildings and property. In many states and municipalities it has been written into the law.
Also, if there is a fire or incident on or in your propert, good luck getting your insurance company to cover you!
With what you want as far as flexibility as to what circuits you want to use why not install a propane powered whole house generator with an automatic transfer switch?
you have an incredible truck with many functions. Why not spend a little money to do things correctly?

This is what people who don't fully grasp what's being achieved, do. They toss out a whole bunch of word salad hoping to exert influence without understanding the entire process for which they're advocating. I get it, you defer to authority and don't actually desire to understand how something works or why processes are done in a particular manner. I don't hold that against you.

It makes clear sense why someone wouldn't want to spend 5-10k on a whole home backup when their needs don't warrant it. Their truck is the most efficient hybrid generator that exists and they want to spend a couple hundred $ to install a safe means for harnessing it if the situation warrants it. That same interconnect means can be used for a larger portable generator if warranted. Given the pricing of modern solar / inverters / batteries, a whole home generator makes the least amount of sense today than it's ever made, but that's a whole other topic.

This has all been hashed out before. The entire forum knows this.

 

[HammaMan]

Anyone know of a professional electrician on here who can answer definitively? I agree it seems the same as plugging something in to the truck, but what do I know. What I do know is everything downstream of the plug would still be grounded to earth through the main panel.

You're not looking for an electrician at all. You're looking for an EE with understanding of these types of systems and the variables involved.

 

[Hullguy]

I have the same set up, newer home with 200 amp service at the meter. My sub/main panel is in the garage. I had a 220 outlet put in next to the panel when it was built, for the gen cable input. I made up a cable with the ground folded back in one plug and it works fine. I turn off the main to the house, connect the gen, and turn on that 220 input switch. It all works fine. I have not tried it with the ground connected, probably will, but suspect it will not like it. Worse case it faults the gen and i will reset it and go back to tried and true.

You no longer have a grounding system. You’ve removed it’s connection point

Anyone know of a professional electrician on here who can answer definitively? I agree it seems the same as plugging something in to the truck, but what do I know. What I do know is everything downstream of the plug would still be grounded to earth through the main panel.

yeah, me! close to 40 years of experience, Master Electrician in Massachusetts

 

[Hullguy]

You're not looking for an electrician at all. You're looking for an EE with understanding of these types of systems and the variables involved.

An EE does not install. They are bound by the Code as well

 

[Hullguy]

There's a whole lot of words here, not much substance. There's nothing special about power rectification that makes it so a breaker cannot 'see' it. Motors and resistance loads are and have been the consumers of energy. Water heaters, stoves, hair dryers, AC systems are the major power consumers. Avg laptop uses 30w while a desktop with decent GPU or a game system are 500w loaded, 70w idle. Larger neutrals? Do you mean from the panel to the transformer? A change that didn't have a single IRL example to point to, purely theory based -- wholly tangential.

You're conflating things here. Bonding of discrete metal runs in a structure to the earth is required because the transformer (and every utility pole heading back to the source) is doing the same. It's actually dual role, 1 to direct lightning to earth, 2 to provide a path for a short trying to reach the earth, to the earth. The source of the electricity uses earth as a return path and necessitates it.

It's a redundant path for appliances with metal casings as the hot conductor wants to get back to earth because it's part of the equation due to transformer earth bonding.

This is false. Power from the truck is not trying to reach earth. I don't believe you truly understand electricity as this one point seems to allude you. Its GFI protection remains in-tact. Isolating the grounding conductor at the structure doesn't change this. If enough current to cause a threat to life doesn't return on the neutral or the other leg, it trips. This is the single point you don't grasp for whatever reason. The GFI is looking for 'missing' current. Furthermore the trip point for the 7.2kW system in the powerboost will trip immediately at 32 amps, far sooner than a 15a breaker will.

This is what people who don't fully grasp what's being achieved, do. They toss out a whole bunch of word salad hoping to exert influence without understanding the entire process for which they're advocating. I get it, you defer to authority and don't actually desire to understand how something works or why processes are done in a particular manner. I don't hold that against you.

It makes clear sense why someone wouldn't want to spend 5-10k on a whole home backup when their needs don't warrant it. Their truck is the most efficient hybrid generator that exists and they want to spend a couple hundred $ to install a safe means for harnessing it if the situation warrants it. That same interconnect means can be used for a larger portable generator if warranted. Given the pricing of modern solar / inverters / batteries, a whole home generator makes the least amount of sense today than it's ever made, but that's a whole other topic.

This has all been hashed out before. The entire forum knows this.

There's a whole lot of words here, not much substance. There's nothing special about power rectification that makes it so a breaker cannot 'see' it. Motors and resistance loads are and have been the consumers of energy. Water heaters, stoves, hair dryers, AC systems are the major power consumers. Avg laptop uses 30w while a desktop with decent GPU or a game system are 500w loaded, 70w idle. Larger neutrals? Do you mean from the panel to the transformer? A change that didn't have a single IRL example to point to, purely theory based -- wholly tangential.

“There's a whole lot of words here, not much substance. There's nothing special about power rectification that makes it so a breaker cannot 'see' it. Motors and resistance loads are and have been the consumers of energy. Water heaters, stoves, hair dryers, AC systems are the major power consumers. Avg laptop uses 30w while a desktop with decent GPU or a game system are 500w loaded, 70w idle. Larger neutrals? Do you mean from the panel to the transformer? A change that didn't have a single IRL example to point to, purely theory based -- wholly tangential.”
it’s an example of a code change in the last 20 years do to a safety issue causing wires to burn.
”You're conflating things here. Bonding of discrete metal runs in a structure to the earth is required because the transformer (and every utility pole heading back to the source) is doing the same. It's actually dual role, 1 to direct lightning to earth, 2 to provide a path for a short trying to reach the earth, to the earth. The source of the electricity uses earth as a return path and necessitates it.”
If a live wire touches these metal systems in your house without a ground attached to them you could become the path to ground!l
” I don't believe you truly understand electricity as this one point seems to allude you.” Are you serious? Would you like to check my licensure?
Heres the link. https://elicensing21.mass.gov/CitizenAccess/GeneralProperty/PropertyLookUp.aspx?isLicensee=Y. My name is James Berry.

You can trust the Professional with the knowledg!

 

[HammaMan]

Are you serious? Would you like to check my licensure?
Heres the link. https://elicensing21.mass.gov/CitizenAccess/GeneralProperty/PropertyLookUp.aspx?isLicensee=Y.

I have no doubt about your credentials.

I question your understanding of electrical systems. I've still got the open question into regards as to why you insist on saying you've got the understanding yet to fail to answer the question as to the risk. You simply reply with the 'approved' authoritative answer. It's like saying you can't divide by zero because you enter it into a calculator and it states undefined. Can you actually show the work? After being asked about a dozen times, you refuse to answer what would, in all accounts be, a simple answer for someone who understands the variable as you insist you do.

Describe or draw a fault path scenario within this method that presents an electrocution hazard.

 

[CLT-PB]

I have no doubt about your credentials.

I question your understanding of electrical systems. I've still got the open question into regards as to why you insist on saying you've got the understanding yet to fail to answer the question as to the risk. You simply reply with the 'approved' authoritative answer. It's like saying you can't divide by zero because you enter it into a calculator and it states undefined. Can you actually show the work? After being asked about a dozen times, you refuse to answer what would, in all accounts be, a simple answer for someone who understands the variable as you insist you do.

Describe or draw a fault path scenario within this method that presents an electrocution hazard.

As I understand it, @Hullguy is saying that disconnecting the ground is dangerous because any current from a short between the truck and the house (in the cord) would not be connected to a path to ground (the house ground rod), so might choose to use a person as the path to ground. Understand that (I think). @HammaMan is saying that a path to the house ground rod doesn't matter here because any current from a short in the cord will either travel on the cord's ground wire to the truck's ground, AND/OR result in a current imbalance on the hot and neutral that will trip the GFCI. Do I understand that correctly?

Also, am I correct that a short somewhere in the house wiring would either travel to the house ground AND/OR trip the truck GFCI because of the same current imbalance?

 

[JoeRedFly]

Breakers and GFI still work as normal since the panel is neutral bonded. If you short Hot to an external conductive surface in an appliance (motor winding issue) the current path will be from panel hot, through the breaker, through the appliance to ground and back to the panel where it is bonded to neutral completing the circuit and triping the breaker, if GFI didn't go first. Seems simple enough to me.

 

[Hullguy]

I have no doubt about your credentials.

I question your understanding of electrical systems. I've still got the open question into regards as to why you insist on saying you've got the understanding yet to fail to answer the question as to the risk. You simply reply with the 'approved' authoritative answer. It's like saying you can't divide by zero because you enter it into a calculator and it states undefined. Can you actually show the work? After being asked about a dozen times, you refuse to answer what would, in all accounts be, a simple answer for someone who understands the variable as you insist you do.

Describe or draw a fault path scenario within this method that presents an electrocution hazard.

Correct Wiring

 

[Hullguy]

As I understand it, @Hullguy is saying that disconnecting the ground is dangerous because any current from a short between the truck and the house (in the cord) would not be connected to a path to ground (the house ground rod), so might choose to use a person as the path to ground. Understand that (I think). @HammaMan is saying that a path to the house ground rod doesn't matter here because any current from a short in the cord will either travel on the cord's ground wire to the truck's ground, AND/OR result in a current imbalance on the hot and neutral that will trip the GFCI. Do I understand that correctly?

Also, am I correct that a short somewhere in the house wiring would either travel to the house ground AND/OR trip the truck GFCI because of the same current imbalance?

There isn’t a path to the trucks ground as it is now an open circuit because the ground prong has been removed. GFI protection is when the truck senses a difference in the current on the hot wire and the neutral

 

[Hullguy]

Breakers and GFI still work as normal since the panel is neutral bonded. If you short Hot to an external conductive surface in an appliance (motor winding issue) the current path will be from panel hot, through the breaker, through the appliance to ground and back to the panel where it is bonded to neutral completing the circuit and triping the breaker, if GFI didn't go first. Seems simple enough to me.

The panel is no longer neutral bonded as there isn’t a ground path between the truck the panel because the trucks ground is removed

 

[JoeRedFly]

In your example of the "Chinese toaster" it doesn't matter how the house is wired if the toaster chassis is not grounded but is instead hot. That's the equivalent of me walking over to an outlet right now and licking the hot side. Of course you will get shocked in that case, it has nothing to do with the Powerboost that I can see.

 

[JoeRedFly]

The panel is no longer neutral bonded as there isn’t a ground path between the truck the panel because the trucks ground is removed

The panel is no longer neutral bonded as there isn’t a ground path between the truck the panel because the trucks ground is removed

The panel is still neutral bonded to the house earth ground. The circuit breakers and GFI I refer to in my post are those of the house, not the truck. The house Circuit breakers and GFI will still function, however you are correct the truck GFI does not.

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