I Need Some Towing Help

[Keef]

Hello everyone,
I am looking for some assistance. Looking at getting a trailer. Found one I liked, went and looked at it and put it on hold. Started doing some more research on here and other forums and came to a conclusion pretty quickly that I was going to be at my max or very close. Went and weighed my truck so I could figure out my exact weights to know what I am working with.
2022 Lariat 157" 5.0L
Payload on sticker is 1543lbs
Truck GVWR is 7150lbs
Weight of truck with basic everyday things and myself is 6415lbs
Left over payload is 735lbs
Add in girlfriend and a few other misc things I'm down to 565lbs.

Trailer we were looking at is a KZ Sportsmen SE 221RESE

UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight)*	5,210
Dry Hitch Weight*	570
Dry Axle Weight*	4,640
CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity)	1,790
GVWR	7,000
Interior Height	78"
Exterior Height (with A/C)	10' 8"
Exterior Width	96"
Exterior Length**	27' 2"
Refrigerator (Cubic Feet)	10
Water Heater Cap. (On-Demand Tankless)	***
Fresh Water Cap. (Gal.)	45
Waste Water Cap. (Gal.)	32
Gray Water Cap. (Gal.)	32
LP Gas Cap. (Lbs.)	40
Furnace BTUs (1,000s)	30
Tire Size	14"
Awning	18'

Decided to call it off the moment I realized my leftover payload was below the dry hitch weight. Contacted the salesman and said I needed to back out and get my deposit back. Here's where things get interesting.

He was in disbelief my truck could not handle it and claiming it was fully towable with a Colorado, ranger or tacoma so my truck could definitely handle it. Tells me loaded hitch weight is only 620lbs but 10% of GVWR on that trailer is 700lb. I questioned him on that and he told me I wasnt doing my calculations correct. I told him I was but please explain. Goes to tell me that because the trailer has a rear slide, is only 22ft inside and has dual axles that it has a lower hitch weight than an average trailer.
Sends me a link of a front heavy trailer that has a 8400lb dry weight and 950lb hitch weight telling me I could even handle that.
When i mentioned my low payload doesnt even account for the weight distributing hitch he told me that the weight distributing hitches typically reduce the hitch weight by about 200lbs....
Then goes on to tell me my payload of 1543 is the total weight that can be put in my bed including towing weight and that gvwr is total weight of truck plus cargo and passengers. The 500lbs i have left has nothing to do with payload and payload is what I need to focus on for towing.
I believe he thinks payload is only what goes in the bed or on the hitch.

I need some reassurane here that I am doing my calculations correct because I am pretty sure I am. I feel very uncomfortable that this is the information he is giving. Essentially telling me I can tow this trailer even though I will be easily 500lbs over max.

Please help and sorry for the long post.

Thanks, Matt

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[JEB]

Hello everyone,
I am looking for some assistance. Looking at getting a trailer. Found one I liked, went and looked at it and put it on hold. Started doing some more research on here and other forums and came to a conclusion pretty quickly that I was going to be at my max or very close. Went and weighed my truck so I could figure out my exact weights to know what I am working with.
2022 Lariat 157" 5.0L
Payload on sticker is 1543lbs
Truck GVWR is 7150lbs
Weight of truck with basic everyday things and myself is 6415lbs
Left over payload is 735lbs
Add in girlfriend and a few other misc things I'm down to 565lbs.

Trailer we were looking at is a KZ Sportsmen SE 221RESE

UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight)*	5,210
Dry Hitch Weight*	570
Dry Axle Weight*	4,640
CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity)	1,790
GVWR	7,000
Interior Height	78"
Exterior Height (with A/C)	10' 8"
Exterior Width	96"
Exterior Length**	27' 2"
Refrigerator (Cubic Feet)	10
Water Heater Cap. (On-Demand Tankless)	***
Fresh Water Cap. (Gal.)	45
Waste Water Cap. (Gal.)	32
Gray Water Cap. (Gal.)	32
LP Gas Cap. (Lbs.)	40
Furnace BTUs (1,000s)	30
Tire Size	14"
Awning	18'

Decided to call it off the moment I realized my leftover payload was below the dry hitch weight. Contacted the salesman and said I needed to back out and get my deposit back. Here's where things get interesting.

He was in disbelief my truck could not handle it and claiming it was fully towable with a Colorado, ranger or tacoma so my truck could definitely handle it. Tells me loaded hitch weight is only 620lbs but 10% of GVWR on that trailer is 700lb. I questioned him on that and he told me I wasnt doing my calculations correct. I told him I was but please explain. Goes to tell me that because the trailer has a rear slide, is only 22ft inside and has dual axles that it has a lower hitch weight than an average trailer.
Sends me a link of a front heavy trailer that has a 8400lb dry weight and 950lb hitch weight telling me I could even handle that.
When i mentioned my low payload doesnt even account for the weight distributing hitch he told me that the weight distributing hitches typically reduce the hitch weight by about 200lbs....
Then goes on to tell me my payload of 1543 is the total weight that can be put in my bed including towing weight and that gvwr is total weight of truck plus cargo and passengers. The 500lbs i have left has nothing to do with payload and payload is what I need to focus on for towing.
I believe he thinks payload is only what goes in the bed or on the hitch.

I need some reassurane here that I am doing my calculations correct because I am pretty sure I am. I feel very uncomfortable that this is the information he is giving. Essentially telling me I can tow this trailer even though I will be easily 500lbs over max.

Please help and sorry for the long post.

Thanks, Matt

Something seems a bit off to me. I tow without issue an Airstream with a heavier tongue than the Sportsman you're looking at and my F150 PB has 120 fewer pounds of payload. That shouldn't be if the calculations are right.

So, I tried looking at your calculations from a different perspective. Your truck has a GVWR of 7150 and a payload of 1543. So the unloaded curb weight of your truck when it left the factory (as optioned) should be in the vicinity of 5607. If your scale weight with you and basic everyday equipment is 6415, that means you are carrying around 808 pounds every day. If you weigh about 200, that means you typically carry more than 600 pounds of "stuff," every day. Are you sure about that? Are you really carrying around that much? If this is correct, can you lighten your load a little when preparing to tow? If your numbers are correct, it's all the added stuff you're carrying that seems to be sinking you.

 

[CND Supercrew]

The trailer GVW is listed @ 7k * 15% max tongue weight = 1050, subtracted from your payload of 1543 gives you 493# of cargo, from which you must subtract all items and/or persons entering the truck. These numbers are based on the trailer loaded to the max. Not hard to do but can be adjusted easily if preparation is thought out, pending trip.

 

[Buyer2021]

If your scale weight with you and basic everyday equipment is 6415, that means you are carrying around 808 pounds every day. If you weigh about 200, that means you typically carry more than 600 pounds of "stuff," every day. Are you sure about that? Are you really carrying around that much? If this is correct, can you lighten your load a little when preparing to tow? If your numbers are correct, it's all the added stuff you're carrying that seems to be sinking you.

I had the same thought - the question is begged - @Keef , have you or your dealer installed any accessories since your truck left the factory (e.g. tonneau, bed cap, wheels / tires, etc) which might account for your rather high 'everyday equipment' weight?

 

[Keef]

Something seems a bit off to me. I tow without issue an Airstream with a heavier tongue than the Sportsman you're looking at and my F150 PB has 120 fewer pounds of payload. That shouldn't be if the calculations are right.

So, I tried looking at your calculations from a different perspective. Your truck has a GVWR of 7150 and a payload of 1543. So the unloaded curb weight of your truck when it left the factory (as optioned) should be in the vicinity of 5607. If your scale weight with you and basic everyday equipment is 6415, that means you are carrying around 808 pounds every day. If you weigh about 200, that means you typically carry more than 600 pounds of "stuff," every day. Are you sure about that? Are you really carrying around that much? If this is correct, can you lighten your load a little when preparing to tow? If your numbers are correct, it's all the added stuff you're carrying that seems to be sinking you.

Sorry, I should have given some more info. I am on the very heavy side, more than double what you guessed. Also have things like tonneau cover, line-x, wheel well liners and mudflaps that were added after it was built. Level kit, aftermarket wheels and some largers tires. Add in stuff like some ratchet straps, jug of washer fluid, jumper cables and other misc things like that. Nothing i can really lose to gain back much payload.

 

[Keef]

I had the same thought - the question is begged - @Keef , have you or your dealer installed any accessories since your truck left the factory (e.g. tonneau, bed cap, wheels / tires, etc) which might account for your rather high 'everyday equipment' weight?

See my reply to JEB. I failed to add that info. Was a little heated with what the sales guy was trying to tell me and forgot some of the important stuff.

 

[Buyer2021]

See my reply to JEB. I failed to add that info. Was a little heated with what the sales guy was trying to tell me and forgot some of the important stuff.

Given that, IMO you are on the right track and should not be swayed by the person whose primary interest is selling a trailer.

And I do mean "swayed" ....

• Regardless of the use of a WDH (that is to say whether or not you use a WDH) you should maintain at least 10% of the actual loaded-for-travel total trailer weight on the tongue to provide inherent minimal risk of trailer sway (and that weight counts against your available payload)
• Slide-out location and tandem axles has no bearing on this rule
• Note that RV manufacturer advertised UVW's are notorious for being low-ball numbers, often with absolutely zero trailer options
• All of this works against your trailering enjoyment with the referenced trailer, IMO

 

[Keef]

Given that, IMO you are on the right track and should not be swayed by the person whose primary interest is selling a trailer.

And I do mean "swayed" ....

• Regardless of the use of a WDH (that is to say whether or not you use a WDH) you should maintain at least 10% of the actual loaded-for-travel total trailer weight on the tongue to provide inherent minimal risk of trailer sway (and that weight counts against your available payload)
• Slide-out location and tandem axles has no bearing on this rule
• Note that RV manufacturer advertised UVW's are notorious for being low-ball numbers, often with absolutely zero trailer options
• All of this works against your trailering enjoyment with the referenced trailer, IMO

Thank you. I figured I was doing my calculations right but was looking for other opinions other than what the sales guy was trying to sell.
I thought I was doing a good job when ordering my truck in getting myself set up for towing in the future. I didnt know anything then compared to what I know now. The hard truth is in my case, my truck can handle a smaller than 20' trailer and maybe not even that. Or, I have to give up the idea of towing with this truck at my current weight and looking for something better equipped.

 

[JEB]

Given that, IMO you are on the right track and should not be swayed by the person whose primary interest is selling a trailer.

And I do mean "swayed" ....

• Regardless of the use of a WDH (that is to say whether or not you use a WDH) you should maintain at least 10% of the actual loaded-for-travel total trailer weight on the tongue to provide inherent minimal risk of trailer sway (and that weight counts against your available payload)
• Slide-out location and tandem axles has no bearing on this rule
• Note that RV manufacturer advertised UVW's are notorious for being low-ball numbers, often with absolutely zero trailer options
• All of this works against your trailering enjoyment with the referenced trailer, IMO

I agree. Once you add an additional 170 pounds worth of girlfriend and camping stuff to the 800 pounds you already carry, you are left with only about 545 pounds of "free" payload for towing equipment (e.g. WDH) and tongue weight. That it too little for a 7000-lb trailer, in my opinion. You will be somewhat overloaded at 10% tongue weight (700 lbs) and quite a bit overloaded at 15% (1050 lbs), assuming your trailer is fully loaded.

 

[Keef]

I agree. Once you add an additional 170 pounds worth of girlfriend and camping stuff to the 800 pounds you already carry, you are left with only about 545 pounds of "free" payload for towing equipment (e.g. WDH) and tongue weight. That it too little for a 7000-lb trailer, in my opinion. You will be somewhat overloaded at 10% tongue weight (700 lbs) and quite a bit overloaded at 15% (1050 lbs), assuming your trailer is fully loaded.

Thank you. I've already told myself a trailer of that size just isn't an option without gaining back some payload or having a different truck.
So, that brings up another question. With the remaining payload I have, I should probably be looking for something in around the 4000lb GVWR?

 

[JEB]

Thank you. I've already told myself a trailer of that size just isn't an option without gaining back some payload or having a different truck.
So, that brings up another question. With the remaining payload I have, I should probably be looking for something in around the 4000lb GVWR?

A qualified yes, you should be able to work with that if you're careful with loading the trailer. But you need to consider carefully what's important to you. You're a big dude. Are you going to be comfortable in a relatively tiny trailer or a pop-up? If not, you might have to consider getting the trailer you want and an adequate tow vehicle to pull it.

 

[Keef]

A qualified yes, you should be able to work with that if you're careful with loading the trailer. But you need to consider carefully what's important to you. You're a big dude. Are you going to be comfortable in a relatively tiny trailer or a pop-up? If not, you might have to consider getting the trailer you want and an adequate tow vehicle to pull it.

All fair points that make sense. Thank you

 

[JJSnell]

Well I am defintely not a towing mathematician but I can speak to real world towing.

My older 2015 Platinum, which had Pano roof, bedliner, tonneau, ecoboost, power running boards and all the weighted bells and whistles, towed my 29TBS at 7,260lbs dry (2020 Grand Design Transcend 29TBS Travel Trailer Specs (granddesignsource.com) ) with no issues. Every RARE once in awhile it would get a little wobbly, but I put more of that on the 143" wheelbase hauling a 36ft (ball hitch to bumper) trailer, than the trailer weighing too much.

Other Qs I have are: Where are you towing this too? 20 miles to your property? How many times a year are you towing? Flat highway or are you going up and down the Rockies? Driving in snow?

I definitely dont want to talk someone into a risky situation but these trucks have listings for 'recommended' suggestions. I personally witnessed a Dodge 1500 take a whole pallet of 80lbs concrete and watch the guy drive off. I was waiting for the wheels to pop off as the thing CLEARLY went beyond load max capacity and the rear was dragging but it worked...

I would ask the salesman (who is going to make a commission on a 5000 trailer as well as a 4000lb trailer, if you can hook it up and drive it around for a few miles. Most of them will allow it as long as the salesman comes with you.......

 

[Kanuck]

You can go to Ford.com and open the towing calculator under your vin. I know there is one on the Cdn site. Not sure how close it is..but you can try.

EDIT; I found this on the internet a few years ago. It may or may not help. Worth a try???? I always consider some salesman will sell you what he can to make a buck. Tell you what you want to hear to make the sale. Not all but some.

 

[Buyer2021]

@Keef , I gotta commend you for considering these realities, many folks don't and end up getting turned off to the RV lifestyle due to less than enjoyable trailering outcomes.

IME over 50 years of trailering (yeah, I'm well into my 70's and have enjoyed trailering all of my adult life), exceeding recommended vehicle weight limits or ignoring well-established rules-of-thumb regarding tongue weight bias inevitably results in less-than-enjoyable, or stressful, or outright dangerous situations.

One thing to keep in mind, IMO, is that many of these recommendations and guidelines come into play in the less-than-optimal towing conditions that one is likely to encounter eventually on their travels. Whether that be treacherous winds, bad road conditions, road debris inciting an evasive maneuver, a trailer tire failure, or whatever ... that stuff happens in our real-world travels, and that's when borderline loading can bite ya. Those situations cannot be 'tested' with a few days of towing,

The whole purpose of RV'ing is to relax and have fun every mile along the way. IME driving a rig that's well-within its all of its recommended weight and load-distribution guidelines is the first step in ensuring that positive experience mile-after-mile.

Wishing you the best in your endeavors.

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