What grade fuel for PowerBoost?

[saluki1969]

Just registered 1000 miles yesterday on my PB. I run a combination of 87 and 93 octane fuel. Gauge gets down to 3/4, I fill up. 87 and next time 93. I am averaging 23.6 mpg with a combination of rural 2 lane travel and in town travel with the air conditioner running. Needles to say, I am quite satisfied. My ole 2010 4.0 liter V6 Sportrac was averaging 17.4 mpg for same trip agenda. To and from work and occasionally to grocery store.

Sponsored

 

[AutonomousHybridF150]

Octane Rating = Anti-preignition

Anti-preignition means the fuel has compounds that prevent it from exploding as easily.

When fuel doesn’t explode as easily, technically you get less power. Unless the computer re-calibrates the timing curve drastically, which Ford does not do. This is why you must get an actual recalibrated tune for the REAL power gains (30-50HP extra) and also fill with premium. Similar octane rating can be achieved using 5 gallons of E85 and then putting 87 regular grade to finish filling the tank.

Pure E85 should get less MPG than pure gasoline because it includes 15% edit*gasoline, which means that the mixture must run slightly richer to be the optimal ratio needed for combustion.

If the Powerboost runs 87 without significant knock retard occurring, then running 90 or 93 octane without a re-tune is going to be a waste of money.

Fun Fact: You need to run about a half to full tank of 93 octane through the engine before you are going to get the possible extra timing to make additional power.

Take it from someone that has driven tuned vehicles that require 93 octane or else they grenade from detonation, if you are filling up your F-150 with premium 93 octane, you are paying for extra anti-knock compound which is not being utilized enough to justify the extra .50 - 1.00 per gallon that it costs.

Premium does not mean the fuel is better or cleaner. It does not mean it explodes better and magically gives the engine more power.

Believe it or not, your premium fuel has a slightly more difficult time igniting than 87 does. Higher octane allows higher cylinder pressures and temperatures, without the fuel exploding before the piston reaches top dead center (before spark occurs) so it actually makes the fuel less explosive. This is the reason for larger gapped plugs and higher voltage coils on very high performance engines as they are running 104 octane or better, and require a hotter spark and bigger spark to keep ignition going.

There is absolutely NO reason to put more than 87 in any NON-tuned 2021 Model F-150 except the HO Raptor motor. The Raptor motor likely utilizes higher boost pressures and more advanced ignition timing curve, thus the requirement for premium fuel.

If you engine wasn’t tuned for 93 or built for 93 with high compression pistons or higher than factory boost levels, then you don’t need premium and you are throwing money away. Literally, just tossing 20 bucks away each fill up.

Pure 100% gasoline 87 octane should get you the best economy.

Pure Gasoline 93 octane should be reserved for engines that require it due to mechanical or calibration reasons.

Any Ethanol mixed gasoline will get less MPG because the mixture must be richer to achieve the same power levels (slightly less actually). E85 has 30% less heat energy, so it’s just less explosive than gas.

ADDING 5 Gallons of E-85 to a tank of 87 Octane pure gasoline, will. I’ve you roughly 93 Octane for much cheaper.

E-85 octane rating is 100-104 octane rating, which is considerably higher than any pump gasoline.

Running high octane fuel is a waste in a non-tuned F-150. I wouldn’t run higher than mid grade when towing, and would never run 93 unless I was going to the race track.

 

[imnuts]

Pure E85 should get less MPG than pure gasoline because it includes 15% ethanol, which means that the mixture must run slightly richer to be the optimal ratio needed for combustion.

E85 is 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline/additives. E15 is 15% ethanol. Putting "pure" in there is a misnomer since you're talking about a fuel blend.

Ethanol fuels also don't "run richer", it adds additional fuel to maintain the stoichiometric ratio for ignition/power. There's fewer atoms in ethanol for combustion compared to gasoline, so too make up the difference it has to add more fuel. It doesn't matter if it's E10, E15, E85, or something else. And while you could add E85 to regular gas to get better octane, that could be bad of the vehicle isn't designed for >E10. Even with just 5% more ethanol (E10 to E15), there is the potential for problems. Moreso with fuel components (hoses & seals) than the engine though. Unless you know your truck, or whatever vehicle, is meant for E15 or E85, I'd personally avoid putting anything else in.

Also, saying you won't see any power gains from running premium is misleading at best. Each truck will respond differently. It depends on what you're doing and where you are. The ECU may not be able to take full advantage of the fuel, but it can still add additional timing that it m not be able to do with a lower octane fuel under the same situation.

I also consider the EB engine to be "designed" for premium since the manual recommends 91 octane or higher. It's also forced induction with a relatively high compression ratio of 10.5:1. If you get into a high boost/high load situation, that 91-93 octane will really help you out.

Now, that all being said, 95+% of the time, it is going to be useless. But what do you do for that other ~5%? You can't just stop and throw in some octane booster at that point and go. That's why I run premium, as I never know when it may be helpful.

 

[Mortonsk9s]

People argue all the time on octane levels and tuning this and that. I am on my forth Aluminum body Eco, not any real problems with any of them, I have run 93 tunes -e30-e50 and e85 tunes on all my other eco's and man the difference is incredible. On my 21 I have run 87 octane on the stock ECU map and in the hot ambient temps the performance drops alot, you can watch it adjust timing right and left, knock sensors going all the way to what the device max/min is able to read.

So as a former tuner always running ethanol tunes for god only knows 350k miles on all my rigs and no issues. I decided to go easy and only run a 89 octane and 7 gallons of e-85 and from a empty tank on the stock ecu strategy, and after about 3 miles of driving the timing changes improved the knock decreased and the truck basically feels like alot better, more responsive, more pull. Even thought it has the stock strategy I can tell a good difference that is worth the hassle at this high ambient heat. It is not a placebo effect these trucks like higher octane in heat. In the cold probably not a big difference. Just my experience and thoughts.

I know higher octane is more expensive but when you watch your data log on comparable days of heat on the same roads, higher octane helps that motor especially at highway speeds in 9th and 10th gear.

 

[F-150 Prius]

Technically there are circumstances that if the ecu can throw more timing, and thus make more power on the more resistant to knock fuel, then you could demand less fuel to get the job done. Hypothetically on cruise control the requested torque could be met pouring less fuel into the combustion chamber because the motor could run more advanced timing than otherwise.

Unless I'm missing something.

One thing that now has more than a decade of data to back it is the Ford F150 3.5 Ecoboost and its amazing Octane learning logic absolutely leverages that octane for making more power.

I think that's about right. Older engines and early emissions systems, not so much, but the last few years of ecoboost are definitely running lean (for emissions, a lean burn is hotter and produces less tail pipe emissions) so they'll be on the bubble sensitive to fuel quality and stability.
Before Porsche made it much more difficult to (re)program their engine control units, the first thing was to richen up the fuel trim and crank on timing till it would suffer no more. Not huge hp gains, not mpg losses, just a little more throttle response on tip-in and a bit more torque "under the curve" … before mods like cold air ram, headers, exhausts, high flow cats and titanium muffler bearings.
I'm sure Ford has the Eco/PowerBoost pretty well boxed up. We'll see if one of the tuners like 5-Star come up with. I've not seen anything specific for the PowerBoost, yet.
https://5startuning.com/product/ford-f150-ecoboost-raptor-jb4-tuner/
Personally, I don't feel like this truck needs more giddy up. Mostly, I what I want under my right foot is reliability (and better mpg) so if the most expensive stuff on the menu at the gas station brings a little of either, I guess I pay the grifters … : )

 

[05RubiconLJ]

First, I have gone just over 6,000 miles and I am averaging 17.0 mpg overall. I brought this to my dealer's attention at 1,500 miles and plan to do it again at my next warranty repair or oil change (more on that below). Even though I live in an area of the country that is quite hilly, I expected more...a lot more.

I have noticed that I get better mileage when I run Top Tier gas (like Shell). Twice I have filled with whatever was available (Casey's and Kum&Go) and instantly saw a drop in mpg's. I run mid-grade consistently, but that 17mpg number has at least 1,000 miles of garbage gas built in.

I am hopeful that my mpg issue is partially fuel system related. I have had a check engine light on for almost the entire 6,000 miles. "The emission control system has detected a very small leak in the evaporative control system which can allow fuel vapors to escape into the atmosphere." The dealer can't find the issue, so it was escalated to Ford's Tech team, who also could not find it. The escalated it to the Ford Engineering team...who could not find it. So, once the parts come off backorder, the are going to replace everything from the fill nozzle to the tank. Fingers crossed this fixes the CEL issue and boosts MPG. I assume the computer/tune could be affected by the CEL and related issue.

 

[scrming]

Octane Rating = Anti-preignition

Anti-preignition means the fuel has compounds that prevent it from exploding as easily.

When fuel doesn’t explode as easily, technically you get less power. Unless the computer re-calibrates the timing curve drastically, which Ford does not do. This is why you must get an actual recalibrated tune for the REAL power gains (30-50HP extra) and also fill with premium. Similar octane rating can be achieved using 5 gallons of E85 and then putting 87 regular grade to finish filling the tank.

Pure E85 should get less MPG than pure gasoline because it includes 15% ethanol, which means that the mixture must run slightly richer to be the optimal ratio needed for combustion.

If the Powerboost runs 87 without significant knock retard occurring, then running 90 or 93 octane without a re-tune is going to be a waste of money.

Fun Fact: You need to run about a half to full tank of 93 octane through the engine before you are going to get the possible extra timing to make additional power.

Take it from someone that has driven tuned vehicles that require 93 octane or else they grenade from detonation, if you are filling up your F-150 with premium 93 octane, you are paying for extra anti-knock compound which is not being utilized enough to justify the extra .50 - 1.00 per gallon that it costs.

Premium does not mean the fuel is better or cleaner. It does not mean it explodes better and magically gives the engine more power.

Believe it or not, your premium fuel has a slightly more difficult time igniting than 87 does. Higher octane allows higher cylinder pressures and temperatures, without the fuel exploding before the piston reaches top dead center (before spark occurs) so it actually makes the fuel less explosive. This is the reason for larger gapped plugs and higher voltage coils on very high performance engines as they are running 104 octane or better, and require a hotter spark and bigger spark to keep ignition going.

There is absolutely NO reason to put more than 87 in any NON-tuned 2021 Model F-150 except the HO Raptor motor. The Raptor motor likely utilizes higher boost pressures and more advanced ignition timing curve, thus the requirement for premium fuel.

If you engine wasn’t tuned for 93 or built for 93 with high compression pistons or higher than factory boost levels, then you don’t need premium and you are throwing money away. Literally, just tossing 20 bucks away each fill up.

Pure 100% gasoline 87 octane should get you the best economy.

Pure Gasoline 93 octane should be reserved for engines that require it due to mechanical or calibration reasons.

Any Ethanol mixed gasoline will get less MPG because the mixture must be richer to achieve the same power levels (slightly less actually). E85 has 30% less heat energy, so it’s just less explosive than gas.

ADDING 5 Gallons of E-85 to a tank of 87 Octane pure gasoline, will. I’ve you roughly 93 Octane for much cheaper.

E-85 octane rating is 100-104 octane rating, which is considerably higher than any pump gasoline.

Running high octane fuel is a waste in a non-tuned F-150. I wouldn’t run higher than mid grade when towing, and would never run 93 unless I was going to the race track.

you are completely wrong! The EcoBoost will definitely take advantage of premium fuel without the need for an aftermarket tune.

here is an article with the data to back up my claims

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a28565486/honda-cr-v-vs-bmw-m5-ford-f-150-dodge-charger/

 

[AutonomousHybridF150]

you are completely wrong! The EcoBoost will definitely take advantage of premium fuel without the need for an aftermarket tune.

here is an article with the data to back up my claims

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a28565486/honda-cr-v-vs-bmw-m5-ford-f-150-dodge-charger/

I read the portion about the EcoBoost truck having the HO 450HP Raptor Motor. As well as, the other sports type vehicles reviewed.

1. I stated Only if I was going to the race track or towing something heavy, would I put premium in an eco boost or powerboost truck.

2. While I fully understand peak performance is better with premium. The factory tune is rich and spark retarted, so you are only realizing 10% of the gains that are possible with proper tuning + 93 Octaine.

To me, at 430HP and 575TQ OEM, then spending money on dyno tuning (if ever possible on PB) to get an extra 50-70 HP + 93 Octane is almost a wast to me. You won’t get better MPG than eco mode in the PB so why bother tuning, running premium, and spending all that money for 1 time slip and a lot of money spent to get the 93 octane requirement.

So what I was trying to say is, on the NON HO motor, I feel that the power gains would be in the 10HP range with premium on normal EB and PB motors. Since the HO motor was getting an extra 50-75 HO somewhere, I’m thinking that fuel octane and boost and tuning played a bigger part than on the normal EB. I feel that this test would be drastically changed on the raptor motor which is what your review is about, and I think I mentioned that also.

So, like I was saying previously, to get an extra 10 HP on the PB in exchange for paying .50 - 1.00 per gallon more, is defeating the purpose of a hybrid and fuel cost savings. So, even if the PB gets 20 more HP with premium, I’m looking at the 25.2 MPG I’m getting, so it would be a waste of money in my book. Since I have background in tuning boosted Mustangs and other fords, I know that premium in a vehicle that can run regular (without proper tuning) is a waste of money. Ford doesn’t tune these motors on the edge, so with the OEM tune unless Premium is required, it’s going to be a waste of money.

3. I guess “waste of money” is subjective. If 10 hp is worth paying the extra money for premium, then it’s not a waste of money to you. If you want to be ready to out run any other truck on the road, by all means please put premium in so you can squeeze that extra 10-15 hp out of the motor.

I just really think that if we’re all trying to get good economy, why are we putting Premium fuel in the vehicles?

 

[Snakebitten]

I love this thread today!
And especially the good sportsmanship between the opposing views.

I will throw a tank of 87 in my truck next time and share how quickly (or slowly) the Ford Octane learning logic kicks in, and then try to be fair about the change (if any) of the amount of timing the truck throws at high torque request driving.

I'm currently running both Octane learning PIDs on the Ngauge because I wasn't sure which one would work with the 2021. They both pegged to "-1" like they should have with 93 octane.

The only thing to make it less than perfect comparison between 87/93 is that I will NOT run my tank much below 1/4 tank because these fuel pumps use the gasoline to keep them cool and I'm not willing to add wear and tear to the intank pump. So technically, the first tank of 87 won't really be 87. But I'm confident that it will absolutely reveal that the logic in this truck will reduce maximum power output on lower octane fuel. Without aftermarket tuning.

Heck, most aftermarket performance tunes disable the Factory OEM octane learning logic. From what I understand it simplifies the tuning for the tuners, but it then requires you to have the octane that the tune is "locked" to. (or higher)

Anyways, we'll see!

I agree with one thing that the "don't waste your money" guys are saying for sure though....... If you drive your truck 100% of the time in a fashion that never produces a torque request that would LEVERAGE the additional torque potential that 93 octane affords the truck, then you basically paid for unutilized potential. At least from a practical point of view.
But there's a reason Ford recommends higher octane for towing! Towing by its very nature is a huge increase in torque request just to drive and accelerate at normal speeds. And Ford's OAR logic is there to leverage that octane to safely operate at those higher torque demands.

 

[scrming]

I read the portion about the EcoBoost truck having the HO 450HP Raptor Motor. As well as, the other sports type vehicles reviewed.

1. I stated Only if I was going to the race track or towing something heavy, would I put premium in an eco boost or powerboost truck.

2. While I fully understand peak performance is better with premium. The factory tune is rich and spark retarted, so you are only realizing 10% of the gains that are possible with proper tuning + 93 Octaine.

To me, at 430HP and 575TQ OEM, then spending money on dyno tuning (if ever possible on PB) to get an extra 50-70 HP + 93 Octane is almost a wast to me. You won’t get better MPG than eco mode in the PB so why bother tuning, running premium, and spending all that money for 1 time slip and a lot of money spent to get the 93 octane requirement.

So what I was trying to say is, on the NON HO motor, I feel that the power gains would be in the 10HP range with premium on normal EB and PB motors. Since the HO motor was getting an extra 50-75 HO somewhere, I’m thinking that fuel octane and boost and tuning played a bigger part than on the normal EB. I feel that this test would be drastically changed on the raptor motor which is what your review is about, and I think I mentioned that also.

So, like I was saying previously, to get an extra 10 HP on the PB in exchange for paying .50 - 1.00 per gallon more, is defeating the purpose of a hybrid and fuel cost savings. So, even if the PB gets 20 more HP with premium, I’m looking at the 25.2 MPG I’m getting, so it would be a waste of money in my book. Since I have background in tuning boosted Mustangs and other fords, I know that premium in a vehicle that can run regular (without proper tuning) is a waste of money. Ford doesn’t tune these motors on the edge, so with the OEM tune unless Premium is required, it’s going to be a waste of money.

3. I guess “waste of money” is subjective. If 10 hp is worth paying the extra money for premium, then it’s not a waste of money to you. If you want to be ready to out run any other truck on the road, by all means please put premium in so you can squeeze that extra 10-15 hp out of the motor.

I just really think that if we’re all trying to get good economy, why are we putting Premium fuel in the vehicles?

The car and driver article does not mention the F150 being a Raptor. Appears to be a regular F150 3.5 EB. And 20 RWHP is pretty noticeable.

since you mention Mustangs… when the S197 came out for 2005 Ford introduced the Spanish OaK ECU and it would take advantage of premium gas. The ECU would advance timing until the knock sensors kicked in and then back off the timing. Now the difference wasn’t big… believe it was 5 RWHP. There was a magazine article way back when. So while small it was obvious the ECU was taking advantage of the extra timing.

 

[Lippy]

And 20 RWHP is pretty noticeable.

I'm pretty torn between regular and premium gas, esp in CA where the Premium is pushing $5/gal. I'm running a few tanks of each to see if there is a difference.

But I do find it a bit funny that people will put cold air intakes, filters, and throttle bodies on their cars, and these mods, while fun, produce questionable benefits that are almost certainly *far* less than 20 RWHP. Compared to those, using Premium to gain HP is an easy choice.

 

[Snakebitten]

The car and driver article does not mention the F150 being a Raptor. Appears to be a regular F150 3.5 EB. And 20 RWHP is pretty noticeable.

There's a few Ford Ecoboost gurus that have off the record confirmation that Ford, for marketing reasons, sand bags "numbers" for the non-HO version of the 3.5 Ecoboost in order for obvious marketing reasons. And it was absolutely confirmed that in 2018 Ford switched from the smaller turbos it used on non-Raptor 3.5's to the same exact Turbo size as the Raptor and said nothing publicly.
Almost immediately the tuner gurus discovered it and were really surprised because for no reason the lbs-per-minute suddenly was more than the it should have been and was basically identical to the HO (Raptor).
Still the Raptor has .5 less compression ratio, which ironically actually aids in throwing more boost before knock, or that's how I understand it, and Ford left so much low hanging fruit in the tune on these motors that it takes nothing to tune the "HO" for an additional few HP to make sure it's ahead of the non HO.
Or put another way, you can get a VERY safe octane learning enabled aftermarket tune on the regular old non-HO 3.5EB with an increase of 100 RWHP. Yea, 100. And it's not a threat to the motor at all.

So, the only point I'm really trying to make is that the difference in factory published Power ratings between the Raptor and the Non-Raptor is whatever Ford wants it to be. And since they decided to make it actually rather small, combined with the fact they used 93 octane for the HO and 87 (or NOT 93) for the regular F150, some of that spread is openly available at the gas pump.

But again, if you ain't going to use it, you don't need it. Even a Raptor only runs how hard you request it.

 

[scrming]

I love this thread today!
And especially the good sportsmanship between the opposing views.

I will throw a tank of 87 in my truck next time and share how quickly (or slowly) the Ford Octane learning logic kicks in, and then try to be fair about the change (if any) of the amount of timing the truck throws at high torque request driving.

I'm currently running both Octane learning PIDs on the Ngauge because I wasn't sure which one would work with the 2021. They both pegged to "-1" like they should have with 93 octane.

The only thing to make it less than perfect comparison between 87/93 is that I will NOT run my tank much below 1/4 tank because these fuel pumps use the gasoline to keep them cool and I'm not willing to add wear and tear to the intank pump. So technically, the first tank of 87 won't really be 87. But I'm confident that it will absolutely reveal that the logic in this truck will reduce maximum power output on lower octane fuel. Without aftermarket tuning.

Heck, most aftermarket performance tunes disable the Factory OEM octane learning logic. From what I understand it simplifies the tuning for the tuners, but it then requires you to have the octane that the tune is "locked" to. (or higher)

Anyways, we'll see!

I agree with one thing that the "don't waste your money" guys are saying for sure though....... If you drive your truck 100% of the time in a fashion that never produces a torque request that would LEVERAGE the additional torque potential that 93 octane affords the truck, then you basically paid for unutilized potential. At least from a practical point of view.
But there's a reason Ford recommends higher octane for towing! Towing by its very nature is a huge increase in torque request just to drive and accelerate at normal speeds. And Ford's OAR logic is there to leverage that octane to safely operate at those higher torque demands.

I only need the extra HP for about 13 seconds or so! ?. Need to see if the PowerBoost can get as fast as our old Flex! LOL

 

[scrming]

There's a few Ford Ecoboost gurus that have off the record confirmation that Ford, for marketing reasons, sand bags "numbers" for the non-HO version of the 3.5 Ecoboost in order for obvious marketing reasons. And it was absolutely confirmed that in 2018 Ford switched from the smaller turbos it used on non-Raptor 3.5's to the same exact Turbo size as the Raptor and said nothing publicly.
Almost immediately the tuner gurus discovered it and were really surprised because for no reason the lbs-per-minute suddenly was more than the it should have been and was basically identical to the HO (Raptor).
Still the Raptor has .5 less compression ratio, which ironically actually aids in throwing more boost before knock, or that's how I understand it, and Ford left so much low hanging fruit in the tune on these motors that it takes nothing to tune the "HO" for an additional few HP to make sure it's ahead of the non HO.
Or put another way, you can get a VERY safe octane learning enabled aftermarket tune on the regular old non-HO 3.5EB with an increase of 100 RWHP. Yea, 100. And it's not a threat to the motor at all.

So, the only point I'm really trying to make is that the difference in factory published Power ratings between the Raptor and the Non-Raptor is whatever Ford wants it to be. And since they decided to make it actually rather small, combined with the fact they used 93 octane for the HO and 87 (or NOT 93) for the regular F150, some of that spread is openly available at the gas pump.

But again, if you ain't going to use it, you don't need it. Even a Raptor only runs how hard you request it.

I normally throw a new vehicle the dyno to get baseline numbers… unfortunately not going to be able to get the PowerBoost on the dyno anytime soon.

I did once prove that a certain big name company’s intake made LESS HP Than stock! That set the forums ablaze! ?

 

[PungoteagueDave]

"If the Powerboost runs 87 without significant knock retard occurring, then running 90 or 93 octane without a re-tune is going to be a waste of money."

"If you engine wasn’t tuned for 93 or built for 93 with high compression pistons or higher than factory boost levels, then you don’t need premium and you are throwing money away. Literally, just tossing 20 bucks away each fill up."

"Pure 100% gasoline 87 octane should get you the best economy."

"Pure Gasoline 93 octane should be reserved for engines that require it due to mechanical or calibration reasons."

"Running high octane fuel is a waste in a non-tuned F-150. I wouldn’t run higher than mid grade when towing, and would never run 93 unless I was going to the race track."

All of the above are incorrect for Ecoboost and Powerboost engines. Modern Ford technology reads the available octane and uses ALL of what's available. When you pay for more expensive, higher octane fuel, you get all of its cleaner-burning benefits, added power, and higher fuel economy. Ford recommends higher octane for a reason, but the advanced engine tuning will accommodate any lower octane that it "sees" and avoid knocking, seem to run okay, while providing lesser efficiency and power. This is the wonder of modern electronics and fuel management systems, and the advice provided above is old-school knowledge, was correct until roughly 2010 in the Ford world. The second comment is SORT of correct because every gasoline Ford engine IS tuned to benefit from 93 octane fuel. All of the other comments are 180-degrees wrong.

Sponsored