Range Without Payload?

[greenne]

Why wouldn't the Lightning be more efficient than the Rivian?

It's lighter. Doesn't weight have a big impact on EV efficiency?

Also..the Lightning has two motors vs four motors in the Rivian.

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[sotek2345]

Why wouldn't the Lightning be more efficient than the Rivian?

It's lighter. Doesn't weight have a big impact on EV efficiency?

It has an impact, but not nearly as much as Aero drag.

 

[LightningShow]

Right, the extra drag contributed by the larger frontal area of the F-150 is a much bigger factor that the 500, or so, pounds of curb weight. It's certainly possible (and likely) that Ford invested more in engineering design to reduce the drag in the Lightning, despite keeping the same body as the standard F-150. The way the air flows under the truck makes pretty big difference.

If you add up the curb weight, two motor configuration and maybe some improved design, I guess it's possible for the F-150L to be more efficient than the R1T. It's certainly possible that Rivian didn't put as much thought into the aerodynamics because they knew they could just throw a big battery at it and charge more. Plus they were gunning for first to market, so there wasn't even a competitive product to benchmark efficiency against. The combination of the Rivian having a slightly less efficient design and the F150L having a slightly more efficient design could make them about on par. It's all speculation but, on paper, you would think the smaller truck should be more efficient. In the real world that doesn't necessarily have to be true.

 

[Sklith]

I believe the reason why Rivian's truck is inefficient despite having a smaller frontal area than the F150-L is that it has 4 permanent magnet motors, and there's no way to shut them off since they always generate power when rolling. Maybe Rivian's upcoming dual motor config will be a lot more efficient.

 

[jefro]

I've found that weight going up and down elevation is much more than I'd have noticed in an ICE.

 

[jaykoolzboy]

We've been driving EVs since the very first BMW i3 (2014 ) , i3, i3s, Ioniq, kona, Clarity FCV. here are some recaps for EV range.

1. Weather --- We are in So-CAL, rarely encounter any sort harsh weather, however on those occasion days where the temperate is below 40, you will see the range dropping significantly.

2. Elevation -- EVs and FCV hates elevation , period. Just some example on Kona EV and Clarity FCV
A. Our old house in LA County (minimum elevation)

Kona EV EPA 259 Miles ----- Real World ------- 305 miles (mostly on ECO mode)


Clarity Fuel Cell EPA 360 Miles Real World ------- close to 400 Miles with light foot



B. Our new home up on the mountain (lots of elevation)


Kona EV EPA 259 Miles ------- Real World 240 Miles (again with ECO Mode)



Clarity Fuel Cell EPA 360 Miles - --------- Real World 250 miles at most (just elevation alone)


3. Speed --- EVs and FCV works best under 70MPH on the freeway, if you drive more than 70 MPH on the highway , you will see your Miles Per Kw reduced substantially. They also worked really well in heavy traffics (slow speed with regen brakes)


Since the F150L has 120Kw usable Battery , I wouldn't be surprised if some posters hitting 360+ per charge with the right environment that includes

1. Lives in places like SoCal
2. No or minimum elevation
3. Stick with Speed Limits on and off the freeway.
4. Using ECO Mode (or whatever the most efficient mode out there for the lightning)
5. No payloads , empty bed and single driver most of the time.


but for most of us something like 260 - 300 is more realistic.

 

[Seageo]

Right, the extra drag contributed by the larger frontal area of the F-150 is a much bigger factor that the 500, or so, pounds of curb weight. It's certainly possible (and likely) that Ford invested more in engineering design to reduce the drag in the Lightning, despite keeping the same body as the standard F-150. The way the air flows under the truck makes pretty big difference.

If you add up the curb weight, two motor configuration and maybe some improved design, I guess it's possible for the F-150L to be more efficient than the R1T. It's certainly possible that Rivian didn't put as much thought into the aerodynamics because they knew they could just throw a big battery at it and charge more. Plus they were gunning for first to market, so there wasn't even a competitive product to benchmark efficiency against. The combination of the Rivian having a slightly less efficient design and the F150L having a slightly more efficient design could make them about on par. It's all speculation but, on paper, you would think the smaller truck should be more efficient. In the real world that doesn't necessarily have to be true.

Educated guess that im curious to see how it plays out here:

I suspect the Lightning will have better city range than the R1T, but the R1T will have significantly better highway range than the lightning. Particularly with conserve mode on.

The mass and larger tires are probably quite a detriment to the rivian in town, whereas the Lightning's cross sectional area may control at speed.

I'll be really interesting to see the lightning's EPA splits and how the two of them test in insideEVS range test.

I believe the reason why Rivian's truck is inefficient despite having a smaller frontal area than the F150-L is that it has 4 permanent magnet motors, and there's no way to shut them off since they always generate power when rolling. Maybe Rivian's upcoming dual motor config will be a lot more efficient.

The R1T has a clutch on each of the rear motors to decouple them in conserve mode. Similar to the taycan and eGMP vehicles.

 

[vandy1981]

Since the F150L has 120Kw usable Battery

Where did you find this information? I haven't seen any published information about usable capacity in the Lightning other than one of the livestreams that specified 131 kwh usable.

 

[LightningShow]

Educated guess that im curious to see how it plays out here:

I suspect the Lightning will have better city range than the R1T, but the R1T will have significantly better highway range than the lightning. Particularly with conserve mode on.

The mass and larger tires are probably quite a detriment to the rivian in town, whereas the Lightning's cross sectional area may control at speed.

I'll be really interesting to see the lightning's EPA splits and how the two of them test in insideEVS range test.

I wouldn't be surprised by that at all. I'm preparing myself for disappointment on the InsideEVs 70mph test but as long as it's not like 250 miles I'll be OK.

 

[REDHORSECA]

Also..the Lightning has two motors vs four motors in the Rivian.

Rivian R1T will come with Two or Four motors.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/rivian-dual-motor-r1s-r1t-launch-quad-motor-price-increase/

 

[LightningShow]

Rivian R1T will come with Two or Four motors.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/rivian-dual-motor-r1s-r1t-launch-quad-motor-price-increase/

That's a recent change. The R1T quad motor is what is officially EPA rated at 314 miles.

 

[jaykoolzboy]

Where did you find this information? I haven't seen any published information about usable capacity in the Lightning other than one of the livestreams that specified 131 kwh usable.

my fault on the typo, I meant 130Kw. Soon we will have real world survey and competition (who can achieve most mileage per charge) can't wait for that.

 

[greenne]

That's a recent change. The R1T quad motor is what is officially EPA rated at 314 miles.

But we don't know the the EPA range of the dual motor...also does the dual motor only come with the smaller battery?

 

[RedLightning86]

I believe the reason why Rivian's truck is inefficient despite having a smaller frontal area than the F150-L is that it has 4 permanent magnet motors, and there's no way to shut them off since they always generate power when rolling. Maybe Rivian's upcoming dual motor config will be a lot more efficient.

I wonder if 4 motors vs 2 would make up in regen what it loses in always rolling, at least when doing just light cruising/commuting?

 

[greenne]

I wouldn't be surprised by that at all. I'm preparing myself for disappointment on the InsideEVs 70mph test but as long as it's not like 250 miles I'll be OK.

If the Lightning ends up closer to 250mi (or maybe even 275) highway I might either wait a year for the Silverado OR take the Lightning and flip it in 12-18months when the silverado hits the street. (I have a "first minute" silverado reservation). I was late to the EV party with Ford so my Lightning reserve was mid June...not anticipating a Lightning delivery until mid 2023.

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