Livernois upgrades

[HDFatBoy]

Evening all, starting to look at exhaust upgrades for the Powerboost and noticed while I was looking at the Livernois tuner that they too have a cat-back exhaust. Does anyone here have any experience with it as far as sound/tone? The only video I could find is for the 2.7. Also, it needs to be modified to be installed to fit the PB? I assume this is the case with all the systems out there built for the 3.5 ICE. Is the modification doable for a weekend mechanic? Seriously considering the MBRP 4" before I saw this. Lastly, Livernois has a nice package deal for the exhaust, tuner and intercooler, just wondering about thoughts on that.
Thanks in advance

Chris

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[HammaMan]

Have thou no appreciation for its silence?
The exhaust heat exchanger right behind the Y merge complicates direct 3.5 bolt ons that run up to the Y.

 

[HDFatBoy]

I appreciate the quite especially after having 3 kids.... But If I am planning on putting a tune on this why not capitalize by freeing up some easy HP by upgrading the exhaust as well. Food for thought....

 

[HammaMan]

I suggest just going for the tune first, you will not be disappointed. A catback isn't going to yield you anything but annoyance of suddenly knowing precisely when the engine is cutting in and out. The powerboost with a tune runs mid 12s and a 0-60 just over 4 seconds on 91 octane. I've got 34" tires on mine and it'll peak above 1g acceleration on launch.
Leave the exhaust be -- especially if you use generator or plan to where anyone else can hear it. I'm using some of my own thoughts here -- 'nobody wants to hear that shit'.

 

[HDFatBoy]

I suggest just going for the tune first, you will not be disappointed. A catback isn't going to yield you anything but annoyance of suddenly knowing precisely when the engine is cutting in and out. The powerboost with a tune runs mid 12s and a 0-60 just over 4 seconds on 91 octane. I've got 34" tires on mine and it'll peak above 1g acceleration on launch.
Leave the exhaust be -- especially if you use generator or plan to where anyone else can hear it. I'm using some of my own thoughts here -- 'nobody wants to hear that shit'.

Thanks for the input HammaMan, I just figured I could realize another 10-20 HP with the exhaust.
I am also planning on either the Bilstein 6112/5160 or larger lift kit ( due to PB weighing more we don't realize the quoted lift) That's another rabbit hole I've been venturing in...

 

[Suns_PSD]

Thanks for the input HammaMan, I just figured I could realize another 10-20 HP with the exhaust.
I am also planning on either the Bilstein 6112/5160 or larger lift kit ( due to PB weighing more we don't realize the quoted lift) That's another rabbit hole I've been venturing in...

I usually put the bolt-ons on all my vehicles but when I called Livernois and asked them about the exhaust they told me that it makes no additional power.

Seriously, buy the AFE intake and the tune and you are good. If you tow maybe throw in the intercooler.

Then you add in the hybrid and generator functions, not to mention that the engine is a V6 and doesn't sound particularly good, and you are just better off staying stock with the exhaust. Now if you have the 5.0 V8, that's a different discussion.

 

[TheGoatman]

I am really liking the intercooler. I fairly confident I can tell a difference in how it runs.

discount if bundled
https://www.livernoismotorsports.co...tuner-intercooler-and-cat-back-exhaust-system

I missed the Christmas intercooler sale myself which is quite upsetting

 

[Suns_PSD]

Did you try and map air temps post intercooler before/ after the intercooler? (not even sure if you can do that using stock sensors.

Livernois told me on 1 full throttle run, that the intercooler wouldn't make any difference in power produced but that if I did another run right afterwards, it could result in a solid 25 hp difference on a warm day from the heat soaking of the first run.

Truth is that I like the idea of the intercooler but I really do 1-3, 3/4+ throttle runs per day and never in a row. Just seemed like something I wouldn't get real world use out of.

 

[HammaMan]

Livernois told me on 1 full throttle run, that the intercooler wouldn't make any difference in power produced but that if I did another run right afterwards, it could result in a solid 25 hp difference on a warm day from the heat soaking of the first run.

This statement from them really doesn't make any sense. Intercooler isn't a traditional rad. The air inside, even if stagnant has very little mass meaning the intercooler should near-instantly be back to ambient the second the boost is gone and the vehicle starts coming to a stop.

The only situation where I think this could be true is if they're programing or removing the intercooler slats. There's no other situation where any sort of acceleration event doesn't have the intercooler back to ambient before the vehicle stops (slats removed, they don't belong on an intercooler). Even with water -- I play with this on a smaller scale quite a bit, heat soaking a cooling loop by powering down fans, within seconds of the fans being brought back online the loop is ~94% on its way to where it should have been had they not been shut off. That is with considerably more mass to deal with.

If there were any benefits to be had it'd be through less restriction. If IATs are below 120f, no timing is being pulled.

 

[SALEEN961]

In 37°F weather with a starting manifold charge temp of 73°F, a 1/4 mile run will give me a peak manifold charge temp of 110°F. Coming back down to a cruising speed of 60-70mph after the 1/4 mile run, it takes 30-40 seconds to get back to the starting manifold charge temp with the stock intercooler and the lower grill shutters fully open. In warm weather, the temperature will be higher and it will take longer for the manifold charge temps to recover.

 

[SALEEN961]

is the manifold charge temp what the timing tables use to base the timing retard?

are you seeing any condensation from having the shutters open? I never found a clear understanding of the purpose of the intercooler shutters.

I had mine open for a bit but was concerned about the oil cooler behind the intercooler. That brings me to my next question. Is that oil cooler behind the intercooler on a t/stat?

VCM editor lists IAT/MCT under borderline corrections. I think that it is using MCT values and not IAT values, but I could be wrong. The parameter description for the base table says it uses IAT, but the multiplier table says MCT. On a forced induction engine, using MCT would make much more sense to me.

I haven't had any obvious issues with condensation, but I haven't been checking for condensation either. I'm not entirely sure which cooler you're referring to, but I think it's the High Voltage Battery Coolant Cooler. The battery cooling system uses electric coolant pumps, so I wouldn't worry about over-cooling as the system would most likely reduce flow to raise the battery temperature should it get too low. I'm not sure if there is thermostat in the system, but in the diagrams I'm checking I don't see one listed.

I have hptuners. Is the scanner working now on a truck that isn’t unlocked?

I'm not sure, I never tried using it on a locked PCM and I don't have one available for testing.

 

[HammaMan]

In 37°F weather with a starting manifold charge temp of 73°F, a 1/4 mile run will give me a peak manifold charge temp of 110°F. Coming back down to a cruising speed of 60-70mph after the 1/4 mile run, it takes 30-40 seconds to get back to the starting manifold charge temp with the stock intercooler and the lower grill shutters fully open. In warm weather, the temperature will be higher and it will take longer for the manifold charge temps to recover.

Do you know where the MCT value is derived from? The intercooler was at ambient but took until 3rd gear to show the actual IAT after 1st and 2nd's heat had been dumped into the intercooler.

 

[TheGoatman]

This is the cooler

 

[SALEEN961]

Do you know where the MCT value is derived from? The intercooler was at ambient but took until 3rd gear to show the actual IAT after 1st and 2nd's heat had been dumped into the intercooler.

I believe the MCT value is being read from the MAPT sensor on top of the intake at the back of the engine, but I haven't personally verified this. I wasn't logging the Charge Air Temp which appears to be charge air cooler outlet temp measured by the Charger Air Cooler Temperature/Turbocharger Boost Pressure sensor located in front of the throttle in the charge pipe.

The manifold charge temp drops initially as increased airflow cools the manifold, but by 3rd gear the charge air cooler outlet temps start climbing as the stock intercooler has trouble keeping up and the MCT starts rising. Looking at other logs, my charge air temp will normally closely match my intake air temp under light load and it starts climbing pretty fast in 3rd gear. Keep in mind that I was running 20-23psig in the log posted above.

I've been debating whether or not an upgraded intercooler is worth it for 1/4 mile racing. I'm not seeing very high manifold charge temperatures right now, but with 100°F ambient temps in the summer it might be worthwhile.

 

[SALEEN961]

This is the cooler

Yes I believe that is the High Voltage Battery Coolant Cooler

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