Forum Pricing

[BIGSTUF]

IMO it's silly to complain about a dealer's practices as long as they are fully disclosed up-front as these seem to be. IMO the answer to a dealer practice one may find objectionable is not to argue with that dealer, it's to choose a different dealer with practices one does find acceptable.

I just find it laughable that they couldn’t even offer a response to a couple of people who brought it to their attention.

For the record I completely agree with you and your last paragraph in particular is the biggest takeaway here. The “correct” title of this thread should be: No, we at Koons will NOT protect your price so find someone else who will.

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[NomadV]

I just find it laughable that they couldn’t even offer a response to a couple of people who brought it to their attention.

For the record I completely agree with you and your last paragraph in particular is the biggest takeaway here. The “correct” title of this thread should be: No, we at Koons will NOT protect your price so find someone else who will.

If I were a money person at Ford (since they have a small presence on the forums) I would check price protection reimbursement requests from dealers like this who say they will not honor price protection to see if they charged the higher amount and then still request price protection reimbursement.

From there you are looking at fraud and could have larger implications on the federal level based on how the request was submitted and how the reimbursement was received.

But of course the owners, when it came down to fines and what not, would blame some guy in finance and fire him saying they didn’t know it was fraud and illegal. They would fire that guy even they knew all along what was going on

 

[BIGSTUF]

If I were a money person at Ford (since they have a small presence on the forums) I would check price protection reimbursement requests from dealers like this who say they will not honor price protection to see if they charged the higher amount and then still request price protection reimbursement.

From there you are looking at fraud and could have larger implications on the federal level based on how the request was submitted and how the reimbursement was received.

But of course the owners, when it came down to fines and what not, would blame some guy in finance and fire him saying they didn’t know it was fraud and illegal. They would fire that guy even they knew all along what was going on

 

[Buyer2021]

If I were a money person at Ford (since they have a small presence on the forums) I would check price protection reimbursement requests from dealers like this who say they will not honor price protection to see if they charged the higher amount and then still request price protection reimbursement.

From there you are looking at fraud and could have larger implications on the federal level based on how the request was submitted and how the reimbursement was received.

I'm confident you'll find nothing in the Ford>dealer Price Protection agreement that requires the dealer to literally pass-through any reimbursement they may receive to the buyer (that would be contrary to the right of a dealer to set it's own selling price which is a key element of the Ford>dealer franchise agreement, vigorously defended by dealers and their lobby groups / dealer trade associations). Remember, Ford does not / cannot set the retail terms or sales price for vehicles they manufacture, that right is inevitably retained by their retail franchisees (dealers) under the current business model.

I'd suggest that as long as the dealer fulfills it's sales agreement made at time of order with the buyer (whatever those terms may be), and the dealer truthfully represents to Ford that the original ordering buyer indeed took possession of the 'price protected' vehicle when they file for Price Protection reimbursement, then it's highly unlikely that a "fraud" has been perpetrated anywhere in that chain of transactions.

Bottom line, though you may find a dealer's choice to not pass Price Protection reimbursement they may receive from Ford through to the buyer an 'unsavory practice', I'm confident you'll find that practice is a perfectly legal option for the dealer to exercise.

It may not be 'customer friendly', but like it or not there's a world of difference between that and perpetrating a "fraud" (or any other transgression) under the law.

 

[NomadV]

I'm confident you'll find nothing in the Ford>dealer Price Protection agreement that requires the dealer to literally pass-through any reimbursement they may receive to the buyer (that would be contrary to the right of a dealer to set it's own selling price which is a key element of the Ford>dealer franchise agreement, vigorously defended by dealers and their lobby groups / dealer trade associations). Remember, Ford does not / cannot set the retail terms or sales price for vehicles they manufacture, that right is inevitably retained by their retail franchisees (dealers) under the current business model.

I'd suggest that as long as the dealer fulfills it's sales agreement made at time of order with the buyer (whatever those terms may be), and the dealer truthfully represents to Ford that the original ordering buyer indeed took possession of the 'price protected' vehicle when they file for Price Protection reimbursement, then it's highly unlikely that a "fraud" has been perpetrated anywhere in that chain of transactions.

Bottom line, though you may find a dealer's choice to not pass Price Protection reimbursement they may receive from Ford through to the buyer an 'unsavory practice', I'm confident you'll find that practice is a perfectly legal option for the dealer to exercise.

It may not be 'customer friendly', but like it or not there's a world of difference between that and perpetrating a "fraud" (or any other transgression) under the law.

It’s not about passing it on to the customer or not. Where fraud comes in is them filing for a reimbursement for loss, aka price protection, when in fact they did not have a loss. By charging the current price or current price plus market adjustment and then also filing for a price protection reimbursement from Ford is textbook fraud.

Kinda have a background in these things

 

[jflottawa]

Remember, Ford does not / cannot set the retail terms or sales price for vehicles they manufacture, that right is inevitably retained by their retail franchisees (dealers) under the current business model.

That's fair, but a dealer asking for "price protection" on behalf of the customer would be a shady practice at best and possibly fraud as the previous post mentioned. It would also be something that may very well be against Ford's code of conduct / ethics.

In any case, it wouldn't be good.

 

[koons_woodbridge_ford]

I did not answer, because I did not receive the info I needed to post here. Why do people consistently believe everyone else is dishonest. I have been upfront with all information with everyone that has ordered thru my dealership. You need to speak with me you can contact me at (571)503-0642.

 

[Buyer2021]

Where fraud comes in is them filing for a reimbursement for loss, aka price protection, when in fact they did not have a loss.

I'm confident you'll find, if you investigate Ford's dealer price protection agreement terms and conditions, that the dealer is not required to demonstrate they suffered a "loss" relating to any specific transaction.

This practice, while not pervasive, is far from uncommon and has been ongoing for a very long time. I suggest that IF Ford had a mechanism in law or its current agreements with dealers to prohibit the practice, they would do so; they have not to my knowledge and empirical evidence supports that. Whether that's due to a 'loophole' in Ford's processes contrary to underlying intent, and/or careful exploitation of an opportunity by dealers makes no difference. It is what it is (there's no shortage of 'legal loophole exploitation contrary to underlying intent' in Tax Code, just for one example, and there are thousands of other examples encountered in commerce every day; the devil is in the detail of the text of applicable rules, regulations, and contracts / agreements). There's nothing legally "dishonest" in that, ethics or moral judgements notwithstanding.

Folks, I'm not suggesting that any of this is a desirable thing from the consumer's point of view, nor that it is or is not ethically or morally upstanding. I am suggesting it is a practice known to occur in the marketplace and is likely legal. IMO an informed consumer (one armed with awareness of this possibility) can avoid being legally exploited themselves with a bit of care when shopping.

Though I struggle to imagine it myself, I must acknowledge that there may be circumstances where an individual might knowingly forfeit 'price protection' and still enjoy the best overall deal for their particular case.

 

[Kodiak]

I salute Koons. Any dealership that is willing to be a presence on a forum and especially post upfront, what the pricing will be, is outstanding in my books.

When they post pricing like that, and also any terms and dealer fees, they are miles ahead of most other dealerships and would be high on my list of dealerships. Thanks Koons!

 

[smithbillp]

I salute Koons. Any dealership that is willing to be a presence on a forum and especially post upfront, what the pricing will be, is outstanding in my books.

When they post pricing like that, and also any terms and dealer fees, they are miles ahead of most other dealerships and would be high on my list of dealerships. Thanks Koons!

I ordered from them in March and have emailed and called several times to confirm price protection and ford incentive/interest rate lock at time I ordered but have yet to get a response.

 

[Thinbluef150]

I ordered from them in March and have emailed and called several times to confirm price protection and ford incentive/interest rate lock at time I ordered but have yet to get a response.

I think no response gives you your answer. After reading this thread, I have decided to order a truck from Chapman Ford. And I live only 30 minutes from Koons.

 

[Longdeck]

I think no response gives you your answer. After reading this thread, I have decided to order a truck from Chapman Ford. And I live only 30 minutes from Koons.

Sure don’t blame you there. All I asked was for supporting documentation and before you know it, everyone else is being called dishonest...now that’s offensive.

 

[smithbillp]

Sure don’t blame you there. All I asked was for supporting documentation and before you know it, everyone else is being called dishonest...now that’s offensive.

I'm not sure why he is calling people dishonest. Just to prove what I posted....

I've attached a screen shot showing the email I sent Dexter on 4/29. I just want an answer yes or no. If not I won't be purchasing the vehicle....

Here is a list of the attempts I've made to get get clarification. View attachment 54655
Emailed Dexter on 4/29
Emailed Jeanae (Internet Sales Manager) on 6/7 and 6/20
Emailed Adam (Acquisitions Manger) on 7/1 (he replied to my question on trade in but didn't answer question on incentives being locked when ordered).
I have left at least 2 messages for their finance department

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