Ford cutting workforce at F-150 Lightning plant in Dearborn

[WhiteLightningnshitshadow]

If it has the vastly superior 21-24 styling, stance, and compatibility, I'd think about it. There's like a dozen of them sitting on the lot right now.

I'm about to make a 1500 miles round trip to pick up a puppy and camp along the way. I'm also making a 1200 mile trip around the state shortly after to see towns and national parks before I leave CO. Both trips involve camping and wouldn't be possible in an electric anything.

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[wayfarer556]

One thing I think Ford underestimates is that most people who buy F-150s are buying them as "do everything" vehicles that are their ONLY vehicles. They are family haulers, grocery getters, mobile offices, road trip cruisers, tow vehicles, and cargo haulers.

The lightening sounds awesome but the range is just a huge concern if you live in a big state and do a lot of driving. It's enough of a hit on the versatility that it effects the perception of its value. And then these lightening trucks hit the market at a time when dealers were upcharging like crazy...I don't know who was buying a truck that can go 320 miles in only the best possible conditions, but that price turned away a ton of buyers. If you got maybe at most 60k to spend, and you need a do everything vehicle, and you can only have 1....ICE just makes more sense 9/10.

Today's prices + these new Tesla Supercharger adapters may have changed the calculus a bit, but it may be too little too late for Ford for the LIghtening to be the instant overnight success they were probably hoping it was going to be.

That being said, I still sometimes look at their dropping prices and think to myself about ways I could make them work. They are really cool vehicles.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

What are you towing that you can get a 160 miles on? Do you live in a northern state? Now you are down to 80 miles towing in the winter if you are.

I tow a boat and a 19' camper. I get more range with the boat. I live in Oregon, haven't towed in near freezing conditions. I have no issues getting to campsites (where I recharge for free) or lakes in my area.

We pull a 8.5x20 aluminum enclosed trailer for my son's racing no way I would get 160 miles in a lightning pulling that.

Probably close, aero drag and weight are the bugaboos. Alot of people have reported getting 1.3mi/kWh with large campers (the ev measurement for range, our equivalent to mpg). 1.3mi/kWh x 131 kW (my battery pack size) gives a range estimate of 170 miles.

I've test drove a Lightning it was fun but almost identical to my 2021 Lariat in every other way at $25k (back then $40k with market adjustment) more.

The prices on Lightnings have dropped. Currently, XLT extended ranges are $50-$52k out the door in my area. its hard to describe what towing with a Lightning feels like but its pretty incredible, no way to "test drive" that. I drive in 1 pedal mode, it's a gamechanger. Make sure to test drive in that mode with Sport on.

The lightnings are overpriced and not practical in my opinion but everyone's real world experience will be different.

Filling up 320 miles for $10 changes the perspective quickly. I got my extended range Lightning for $52k out the door, that does not in any way seem overpriced to me.

 

[HammaMan]

The lightning has fuckall for range and the worst charging of any EV truck. I have the mach-e for a beater and the F150 PB for going the distance and hauling things. I can be in just about any southern state in 6-7 hours without stopping. "Who does that!?" -- Me, I do that, I've done it for greater than 2 decades now. Need a piss stop? Pull off a secluded exit, inspect the rear passenger door, and I'm back on the road in less than 2 minutes. No, it's not daily or weekly, but enough to not give up the capability when needed. Towing with drag? Sure my mileage drops to 300 per tank (still besting an empty lightning) but I also recharge in 6 minutes at any of the 2 million+ pull-through friendly gas pumps. So few pull-through chargers exist, they're not even worthy of bringing up. Towing range? It's horrible, like real bad having to stop at nearly every EV charger along the way bad, which requires unhooking the trailer, or if possible, just going douche mode blocking lanes or sticking out into the travel lanes of the lot.

Owning an EV is a lifestyle change -- full stop. Lots of caveats, best practices, and things you'd better know if you don't want to be stranded in the middle of the night with no means of getting help . Anyone saying otherwise is lying. I've owned 2. They make great around town beaters. If you can't charge at home or at work, EVs aren't for you - full stop, don't do it, you will regret it. If you have to use public charging, you're either paying more than gas out-right, or you're spending about the same + your time. My time is valuable. Come winter time, that ICE waste heat can't be beat. Meanwhile that EV's range has magically lost 30% or more. Just to get a head start it needs to remain plugged in with a departure time set (lifestyle change?) and it still won't do something smart like use the 1klb+ battery as a "heat battery" -- like a hot tub, it's just using energy to keep itself warm, and no the battery isn't insulated.

And remember kids, the EPA highway range is 55mph. Here's 70mph assuming you can use the entire pack which you cannot. If you drive 80mph, knock another 12-15% off. Because you cannot use the entire pack unless you've got a tow truck, and you don't charge to 100% (not to mention you go to where the charger is, the charger doesn't come to you, knock another 15% off.

Big pack lightning has a usable 80mph range of about 2.5 hours -- you'll be stopping 45 minutes every 2.5 hours. DOG SHIT.
I love my EV though.

 

[powerboatr]

For us our 80% driving is 30 to 40 miles and less ..might get 100 in a week.
A Mach e would serve that model.
Use the truck for everything else.
But.. pr8ce of Mach e compared to a loaded edge titanium . And no tax break of 7500.. the Mach e looses
Yes my taxes are low, we are retired and planned accordingly to limit tax burdens
Then registration for ev is high, but close to same for ice once you ad in road use taxes
But insurance is higher on ev. And it appears by years end farm bureau will restrict evs to no inside garage parking at a house they covet. Or you get huge price hit

 

[HammaMan]

For us our 80% driving is 30 to 40 miles and less ..might get 100 in a week.
A Mach e would serve that model.
Use the truck for everything else.
But.. pr8ce of Mach e compared to a loaded edge titanium . And no tax break of 7500.. the Mach e looses
Yes my taxes are low, we are retired and planned accordingly to limit tax burdens
Then registration for ev is high, but close to same for ice once you ad in road use taxes
But insurance is higher on ev. And it appears by years end farm bureau will restrict evs to no inside garage parking at a house they covet. Or you get huge price hit

Chevy bolt EUVs are the secret unknown EV deal of the year. You can get them as low as $20k out the door brand new. You can get them with heated / cooled seats and 360 cams for about 24k$. Brand new.

 

[SingleSpeed427]

"Half-Ton" EV trucks must have (my opinion, regardless of charging Infrastructure):

- 250 miles range towing 5000lb open trailer or boat over flat ground@75mph, 50 degree outdoor temp, in "normal" mode(s) for driving/climate control, etc.

- Ability to charge back that 250 miles of range in less than 15 minutes (WITHOUT DAMAGING OR SHORTENING THE LIFE OF THE BATTERY)

If it could do that, I'd consider one again (I did once, but then found out that I literally could not use the truck to tow to racetracks due to lack of charging Infrastructure and a 2 hour trip turning into 5.5 hours (because I had to fully charge before going to the track, just so that I had enough to make it back to the charger after the track day... which also meant no A/C all day while on the 120+ degree paddock.)

 

[powerboatr]

Chevy bolt EUVs are the secret unknown EV deal of the year. You can get them as low as $20k out the door brand new. You can get them with heated / cooled seats and 360 cams for about 24k$. Brand new.

But But But it's a chevy

 

[HammaMan]

But But But it's a chevy

You can get a loaded premier used for 19k or less --- MSRP is 35k. Yeah, it's a chevy, but it's also cheap with virtually no maintenance. If you've got sufficient solar, it may even be free to fuel.

 

[brfertig]

You can get a loaded premier used for 19k or less --- MSRP is 35k. Yeah, it's a chevy, but it's also cheap with virtually no maintenance. If you've got sufficient solar, it may even be free to fuel.

My neighbor spent 30 (now 50K) on solar panels. My power bill is 400 a month, (large home), it would take me 125 months to pay that back at my current power bill. There is no way EV is free. In 10 years your truck is going to need a battery. Its a vicious cycle of no return.

 

[HammaMan]

The lightning's batt degradation is about 3% per 100k miles. These batteries last much longer than you'd realize, and by following good charging practices that can be mitigated further.

 

[fatBatman]

@Smokewagun or @BennyTheBeaver, does the Lightning record your telematics like GM does and sell it to LexisNexis?
I wonder if this is the case for every EV or just GM. I know Tesla records your driving but I don't think they share it. I currently drive a '23 Chevy 3.0 Duramax and it is great. On the highway, I get nearly 30 MPG and it has good power. I think the lack of 110 outlets is well, lacking and I don't appreciate the increased expense for diesel fuel but that isn't GMs fault. What is absolutely SHITTY though is when I pulled my LexisNexis "Consumer Report" (the same thing all insurance companies use to raise your rates), it tracks and logs every single trip I make no matter how short and reports it so my insurance company sees it. Am I driving like shit? No. I simply do not want my time, speed, location, route, or anything else tracked by anybody. Thus, I ordered another F150 and will be picking it up in 2 weeks (it has already arrived at Granger).

That said, I know I can unplug the OnStar module under my dash and trigger a check engine light. I'd rather cut my losses and say FUCK GM. Back to my original question though, does the Lightning track and log your information and sell it to LexisNexis like GM? I know Toyota/Lexus do not (they may track and log it for all I know but I do know they don't share it).

Still, even after all of that, I think EV technology is close to where we need to be but just not quite where I need it to be. I need 300 miles towing and 600 miles empty. I know the charging infrastructure is being installed and the grids are slowly being modernized so I am not too concerned about that. I need towing and empty range. Until then, I applaud everyone for buying one and braving the market as it's a new technology. Without people buying them first, they will never get better. Soon, probably in 8-10 years, the motor, battery, and charging technologies will have improved to the point to make it more viable for me, just not today.

I have purposely avoided staying on topic with the original title of this thread because I have my own opinions about unions and I will keep those to myself so I do not offend anyone BUT that dammed telematics shit has to go away!!

 

[HammaMan]

@Smokewagun or @BennyTheBeaver, does the Lightning record your telematics like GM does and sell it to LexisNexis?
I wonder if this is the case for every EV or just GM. I know Tesla records your driving but I don't think they share it. I currently drive a '23 Chevy 3.0 Duramax and it is great. On the highway, I get nearly 30 MPG and it has good power. I think the lack of 110 outlets is well, lacking and I don't appreciate the increased expense for diesel fuel but that isn't GMs fault. What is absolutely SHITTY though is when I pulled my LexisNexis "Consumer Report" (the same thing all insurance companies use to raise your rates), it tracks and logs every single trip I make no matter how short and reports it so my insurance company sees it. Am I driving like shit? No. I simply do not want my time, speed, location, route, or anything else tracked by anybody. Thus, I ordered another F150 and will be picking it up in 2 weeks (it has already arrived at Granger).

That said, I know I can unplug the OnStar module under my dash and trigger a check engine light. I'd rather cut my losses and say FUCK GM. Back to my original question though, does the Lightning track and log your information and sell it to LexisNexis like GM? I know Toyota/Lexus do not (they may track and log it for all I know but I do know they don't share it).

Still, even after all of that, I think EV technology is close to where we need to be but just not quite where I need it to be. I need 300 miles towing and 600 miles empty. I know the charging infrastructure is being installed and the grids are slowly being modernized so I am not too concerned about that. I need towing and empty range. Until then, I applaud everyone for buying one and braving the market as it's a new technology. Without people buying them first, they will never get better. Soon, probably in 8-10 years, the motor, battery, and charging technologies will have improved to the point to make it more viable for me, just not today.

I have purposely avoided staying on topic with the original title of this thread because I have my own opinions about unions and I will keep those to myself so I do not offend anyone BUT that dammed telematics shit has to go away!!

You should be able to disconnect the cellular antenna and end that nonsense. Make sure the vehicle cannot connect to wifi either.

 

[fatBatman]

My neighbor spent 30 (now 50K) on solar panels. My power bill is 400 a month, (large home), it would take me 125 months to pay that back at my current power bill. There is no way EV is free. In 10 years your truck is going to need a battery. Its a vicious cycle of no return.

My home is about 2600 sq ft. and when I bought it, the previous owner had triple pane windows and a SEER 17 HVAC (there are much betters ones now) installed. I added about $1200 of insulation in my attic (did it myself to save $$$) and $500 of radiant barrier film and in the summer my electric bill is no higher than $130/mo. I just looked it up and in August of last year (the record breaking summer in Dallas), my electric bill was $134.27 and I keep my AC set on 68-70.

I have more and more solar companies trying to sell me crap all the time. With my current energy costs, I'd never make up for it and I certainly don't want to pay more to my homeowners insurance by bolting a bunch of panels to my roof.

 

[fatBatman]

You should be able to disconnect the cellular antenna and end that nonsense. Make sure the vehicle cannot connect to wifi either.

Its imbedded into the OnStar crap. I'm sure there is an antenna somewhere but I'm not convinced it doesn't daisy chain somehow onto my cell phone either.

I'll happily pick up my Ford early next month. If you want a Chevy with low miles, let me know. I know a guy named Chip in Iowa that's about to have one hit the local market soon.

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