5.0 oil pump belt

[texski]

Sadly, since this is the first year, only time and experience will tell.

One of the things with belts is that on most maintenance schedules, there’s both a mileage recommendation and a time recommendation, with replacement at whichever comes first. Chains are pretty much usually good for the life of the engine.

If you check the Fordtechmakuloco channel on YouTube, he describes pretty well how Ford plays fast and loose with their maintenance schedules. So don’t be surprised if you need to spend several hours if you do it yourself, or over a grand if you trust a shop to do it; when the time comes to change some belt that provides an imperceptible advantage in the short term. Pretty much every EPA mileage improvement in the last decade has been at the expense of owners and if you factor in the shorter lifespan of modern vehicles along with the added maintenance costs, along with the inefficiencies that go along with those factors, I have little doubt that more oil is being burned in the long run chasing all these new problems for the sake of satisfying a test that doesn’t recognize the real world. Kind of like the early low water usage toilets that used half the water but had to be flushed three to four times as much. It’s the law of unintended consequences.

Ford isn’t alone with this trend, other manufacturers are guilty of exaggerating their maintenance costs at the expense of longevity. Things like ‘sealed’ transmissions with ‘lifetime’ fluids, direct injection that cokes up the intake valves, cylinder deactivation that spontaneously deactivates the entire engine under 100K miles, and other concepts that are either a step backward longevity wise or simply not ready for prime time.

About the only real benefit of the newest generation of trucks is improved safety and performance.

Well said Pedaldude.

Now I want to know why did they stop hanging oil pumps on the crankshaft?

Chains wear and stretch, belts stretch and break. While a belt may be reinforced with Kevlar, that will merely increase its resistance to stress, not necessarily make it last longer. Materials have a certain shelf life and are degraded by heat. A metal chain is much less susceptible to these factors, and in a crank mounted situation, the crank will outlast the pump.

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[Pedaldude]

Now I want to know why did they stop hanging oil pumps on the crankshaft?

Driving the pump straight off the crank is easy but also problematic for high RPM engines like the Coyote V8.

I can only imagine that the belt was a choice due to the fact that they are chasing every last HP and MPG out of the naturally aspirated V8.

It’s also Ford, so we know that they laboriously pinched every dime that went into building the new design; so if they saved a few bucks going with a belt over a chain in addition to improving performance, it’s an easy choice!

 

[GEN14OWNER]

Well said Pedaldude.

Now I want to know why did they stop hanging oil pumps on the crankshaft?

Chains wear and stretch, belts stretch and break. While a belt may be reinforced with Kevlar, that will merely increase its resistance to stress, not necessarily make it last longer. Materials have a certain shelf life and are degraded by heat. A metal chain is much less susceptible to these factors, and in a crank mounted situation, the crank will outlast the pump.

I think it's safe to say that the days of keeping your new F150 for 20 years are OVER!
(Or any other new vehicle for that matter)

These new vehicles are so intertwined with technology that the pace of wear and tear that used to determine the longevity of your new vehicle no longer apply.

Now it's the "pace of technology".

Scarry thought, huh?

But it's the reality of 2022.

If you're not the "trade in my new truck every two or three years" type... get the MAX ESP you can afford! That's your best hope.

You'll be lucky if you can even buy gasoline "20 years" from now the way things are going.

And if you want to see what your 5.0 oil pump belt looks like in action...

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/inside-your-2021-5-0-at-3500-miles.8526/

 

[texski]

I think it's safe to say that the days of keeping your new F150 for 20 years are OVER!
(Or any other new vehicle for that matter)

These new vehicles are so intertwined with technology that the pace of wear and tear that used to determine the longevity of your new vehicle no longer apply.

Now it's the "pace of technology".

Scarry thought, huh?

But it's the reality of 2022.

If you're not the "trade in my new truck every two or three years" type... get the MAX ESP you can afford! That's your best hope.

You'll be lucky if you can even buy gasoline "20 years" from now the way things are going.

And if you want to see what your 5.0 oil pump belt looks like in action...

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/inside-your-2021-5-0-at-3500-miles.8526/

Bob,
I'm afraid you are right. I bought at 97 in the Fall of 96. My daughter drove it through high school, and she is about to graduate with a BS in Mechanical Engineering. Her goal is to make that truck outlast me. huh
That thing was built solid. I can't push the fender in with my thumb like I can my 2022. I have had more recalls in a couple of months with this 22 than I had in 10 years with my 97. It is serviceable, as long as they continue to make parts. Maybe I sound like an old man, but I hear these guys bragging about the quality of their new trucks. I see shortcuts, low quality material made to look good, and like you said, a truck that will not last. And yet Ford will continue to crank out at this level until people stop buying them.

 

[JohnMcClane]

Pretty fun reading about the efficacy of chain vs belt.

I’ve had the nylon on the timing chain of a 350 rocket dissolve on me and a “reliable” OEM Accord belt call it quits shortly after installation (was not installer error).

I find it fascinating comparing “reliability” between vehicle generations.

My pops had a 97 7.3L 250, got my drivers license in that tank. Tank hated cold starts though, and really hated moving before getting warm. Crazy that my 5.0 can legally move more than that, so while these modern trucks have a lot more that can go wrong, I often think/lay reliability at the feet of the owner. If you want it to last, you will make it last, sure certain things will survive in spite of neglect, but care and maintenance will make these trucks last a fair amount of time.

 

[‘22Powerboost]

Bob,
I'm afraid you are right. I bought at 97 in the Fall of 96. My daughter drove it through high school, and she is about to graduate with a BS in Mechanical Engineering. Her goal is to make that truck outlast me. huh
That thing was built solid. I can't push the fender in with my thumb like I can my 2022. I have had more recalls in a couple of months with this 22 than I had in 10 years with my 97. It is serviceable, as long as they continue to make parts. Maybe I sound like an old man, but I hear these guys bragging about the quality of their new trucks. I see shortcuts, low quality material made to look good, and like you said, a truck that will not last. And yet Ford will continue to crank out at this level until people stop buying them.

I have to respectfully disagree. Sure there are shortcuts, there’s always been shortcuts. That ‘97 you had, had a lot of shortcuts, and the ‘87 and the ‘77 before that.

Overall, our latest generation F150’s are the best trucks Ford has ever made. They tow much more and haul much more than a truck from 25 yrs ago period. The tech is off the charts…tech that can certainly save your life and mine too, god forbid we ever get into major trouble while driving. Trucks of 10 yrs ago, or 15 yrs ago couldn’t do that, let alone 25 yrs ago.

I’ll take 430HP and 570 lb/ft of torque, and a truck that drives itself, and can also power my whole house in a pinch during a power outage, with heated and cooled gorgeous leather seats, that also massages my can and back, and not to mention the truck rides literally like a Bentley or an S Class Benz, over my ‘97 Chevy Silverado any day.

And it’ll last just fine, and plenty long with proper routine maintenance. Is it perfect? No! Is it better than trucks were 25 yrs ago? Hell ya…Way better. Overall, the 14th generation F150 is pretty impressive imo.

And those trucks from 25 and 35 yrs ago…they were chuck full/loaded with low quality material. If I was able to put my ‘22 platinum next to my ‘97 Silverado(it was a great truck in its day), the quality difference between the two, inside and out would be mind blowing in favor of the ‘22.

And GM and Ram and Toyota and Nissan all wish they sold as many trucks as Ford sells F150’s.

 

[GEN14OWNER]

I have to respectfully disagree. Sure there are shortcuts, there’s always been shortcuts. That ‘97 you had, had a lot of shortcuts, and the ‘87 and the ‘77 before that.

Overall, our latest generation F150’s are the best trucks Ford has ever made. They tow much more and haul much more than a truck from 25 yrs ago period. The tech is off the charts…tech that can certainly save your life and mine too, god forbid we ever get into major trouble while driving. Trucks of 10 yrs ago, or 15 yrs ago couldn’t do that, let alone 25 yrs ago.

I’ll take 430HP and 570 lb/ft of torque, and a truck that drives itself, and can also power my whole house in a pinch during a power outage, with heated and cooled gorgeous leather seats, that also massages my can and back, and not to mention the truck rides literally like a Bentley or an S Class Benz, over my ‘97 Chevy Silverado any day.

And it’ll last just fine, and plenty long with proper routine maintenance. Is it perfect? No! Is it better than trucks were 25 yrs ago? Hell ya…Way better. Overall, the 14th generation F150 is pretty impressive imo.

And GM and Ram and Toyota and Nissan all wish they sold as many trucks as Ford sells F150’s.

Don't get me wrong....

I'm VERY HAPPY with my new F150!

I just LOVE this truck and she loves me back (for the most part).

BUT... I've already had a few "tech" related problems that it's worth noting... "fixed themselves" before I could get it into the Dealership.

That is the amazing thing about all the new tech.

But the fact of the matter IS that the more these new trucks rely on "technology"... the more they will be a victim of "outdated technology" when that time comes.

And "that time" will come LONG BEFORE your rings wear out in your cylinders!

I had to sink $7k into my 1996 Ranger to get me through the never ending rescheduled build dates of my 2021.

It's still going strong!

I'd be a fool to think my new 2021 will be worth sinking $7k worth of 2041 dollars into it when that time comes.

 

[EricR]

<snip>
It’s also Ford, so we know that they laboriously pinched every dime that went into building the new design; so if they saved a few bucks going with a belt over a chain in addition to improving performance, it’s an easy choice!

It's quite possible a Kevlar reinforced belt costs more than a chain.

 

[‘22Powerboost]

Don't get me wrong....

I'm VERY HAPPY with my new F150!

I just LOVE this truck and she loves me back (for the most part).

BUT... I've already had a few "tech" related problems that it's worth noting... "fixed themselves" before I could get it into the Dealership.

That is the amazing thing about all the new tech.

But the fact of the matter IS that the more these new trucks rely on "technology"... the more they will be a victim of "outdated technology" when that time comes.

And "that time" will come LONG BEFORE your rings wear out in your cylinders!

I had to sink $7k into my 1996 Ranger to get me through the never ending rescheduled build dates of my 2021.

It's still going strong!

I'd be a fool to think my new 2021 will be worth sinking $7k worth of 2041 dollars into it when that time comes.

That would be $7k worth of 2047 dollars lol….

 

[GEN14OWNER]

More like $17K the way things are going!

 

[‘22Powerboost]

More like $17K the way things are going!

Very true.

 

[Pedaldude]

It's quite possible a Kevlar reinforced belt costs more than a chain.

While it’s possible that the part itself may cost more, it’s just as likely Ford saved money in its implementation.

Even if the savings is only realized after a few million engines from either gaming the CAFE numbers in the EPA drive cycle and avoiding penalties or through a better deal with the belt vendor.

 

[EricR]

While it’s possible that the part itself may cost more, it’s just as likely Ford saved money in its implementation.

Even if the savings is only realized after a few million engines from either gaming the CAFE numbers in the EPA drive cycle and avoiding penalties or through a better deal with the belt vendor.

Cup half empty?

 

[amschind]

Every NHRA pro stock is running a belt drive oil pump, every cup car today at Martinsville runs a belt driven oil pump.
so it’s not like it’s new technology. I ran one for years, along with the belt driven timing Gear. I would have no concerns with the belt making 100,000 miles.

I think the key difference is that an NHRA engine has a drastically different maintenance and inspection schedule than the best maintained truck on this site. At 10 years, the entire vehicle is only worth 20 belt inspections/replacements. The old Nordberg Radials were amazing radial 2-stroke engines with a complex gear system rather than a conventional master rod. As a result, they required regular inspection. The issue was that the effort to inspect the crank gears was nearly as onerous as replacing the entire setup. Alcoa, a major user, eventually adopted the policy of simply never inspecting and just running the engines to failure and then replacing the crank gearing when it blew. That situation was arguably better because 1) those engines were in huge generator halls and losing one generator was a tiny and expected headache and 2) that failure didn't normally do more damage than bending a valve stem. The BIO setup strands you wherever you were when it hit and it's going to wipe out the motor when it fails.

So yes, NHRA and racing in general would be a great use case for a BIO timing or oiling system, but I'm not sure that recommends it for daily drivers.

 

[tony72cutlass's']

Pretty fun reading about the efficacy of chain vs belt.

I’ve had the nylon on the timing chain of a 350 rocket dissolve on me

good thing it's not an interference engine

i replaced mine with a cloyes chain 20 years ago and still going strong

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