Oil life monitor legitimacy

[Yves]

I will follow the OLM as I believe they did put some smart to take in consideration the type of driving (pulling trailer, short run, idling etc..) that you do and the temperature your truck is running in (-30F to up 100F). I'm close to 3500 miles and the OLM says that I have 25% left. I just went through one Canadian winter and most of my driving are mostly short run. The reasons why I believe the OLM takes in considerations your driving and the environment of your driving.

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[texski]

That was one example, I’m planning to get my own oil analyzed. But my point is that I’ve seen much more evidence to support following OLM’s on these trucks and other cars than I have seen to support this 3-5k myth. In fact, I’ve yet to see an oil analysis of a modern car with good oil driven normally that suggests a 3-5k oil change. I’m not sure what Andre’s credentials have to do with a 3rd party analysis of his oil…I watch FordBossMe all the time, he’s a wealth of great information. His oil change interval suggestions aren’t based in science though.

More frequent oil changes is cheap insurance, but for me they feel like a waste of time and money. I’d be changing my oil every 5 weeks at 3,000 mile intervals…

Also the OLM isn’t a flat 10,000 miles. It takes into account your conditions, so it would recommend a sooner oil change for people in severe service

For what another anecdote is worth (which I understand isn’t much given the facts around it), I had a ‘13 mustang before. Ran it from 13,000 to 140,000 miles before selling it, to include track days, test & tune, autocross. It was tuned with a raised rev limiter and I drove it pretty hard. Based on blackstone, I ran 8-9k mile oil changes on it and she ran like a top.

Andre is an influencer. His experience is based on HIS truck. And if I remember, he has a 5.0L! FordBossMe and Makuloco's bank account depend on 1) identifying the fault, and 2) correcting it. As I understand, they both are exclusively Ford Techs and have a tremendous amount of experience.
If you watch FordBossMe, I suggest you watch his video on the EcoBust, where he says you have to change the oil on these every 3k - 5k ... because he has seen enough failures on 3 year old engines that were changed when every year 1 year or 10k. Your motor is not a 4.6 3v! (or 4v) I will loose no sleep changing mine every 5k, or your's at 10k. But I don't want people to read your post and think that someone is an expert because they send a sample to Blackstone when mechanics with years of FORD experience are warning people to change at 3k - 5k.

The best maintenance schedule recommendations will come when we see many Blackstone reports from 100k engines, and by then, it may be too late for the 10k's ... especially those of you with boosted applications. I replied to one of your posts were Porsche owners, and other high performance brands using Mobil1, regret following the recommended 10k schedule. In another 6k, I'll pull the engine in my Porsche and replace the timing chain. I suspect that my 7.5 k schedule will leave me disappointed.

Unless you are a Materials Scientist working in a lab, I doubt that you have the ability to analyze oil sample results. Most will scan the report, read the comment section and call it good. But when spectral analysis shows rising numbers between 50k and 70k reports, it may be too late.

 

[texski]

I will follow the OLM as I believe they did put some smart to take in consideration the type of driving (pulling trailer, short run, idling etc..) that you do and the temperature your truck is running in (-30F to up 100F). I'm close to 3500 miles and the OLM says that I have 25% left. I just went through one Canadian winter and most of my driving are mostly short run. The reasons why I believe the OLM takes in considerations your driving and the environment of your driving.

That's interesting. You have a Severe Duty cycle and your OLM reflects that. What is your Run Time vs Idle Time? Yves, you been warming that truck up before you get in?

I would be interested to see what parameters Ford uses. I would suggest that it is probably a "dumb" system that looks at Run Time, Idle Time, Ambient Temperature, Engine Temperature, Driving Mode (Tow, Sport, etc) and makes recommendations based on a matrix.

Our dishwasher has a "smart" cycle that actually analyzes the particles in the waste water. It adjust the cleaning time based on the amount of trash as it is drained. It will sample the water in the washer and if it is within a specific range, it will repeat the wash cycle. Otherwise it will stop the wash and start the rinse. Run time can be from 30 min to 2.5 hours depending on how dirty the dishes are. I doubt we have this level of analysis in our trucks.

 

[Orlando150]

Andre is an influencer. His experience is based on HIS truck. And if I remember, he has a 5.0L!

No he has a Powerboost.

That's interesting. You have a Severe Duty cycle and your OLM reflects that. What is your Run Time vs Idle Time? Yves, you been warming that truck up before you get in?

I would be interested to see what parameters Ford uses. I would suggest that it is probably a "dumb" system that looks at Run Time, Idle Time, Ambient Temperature, Engine Temperature, Driving Mode (Tow, Sport, etc) and makes recommendations based on a matrix.

Our dishwasher has a "smart" cycle that actually analyzes the particles in the waste water. It adjust the cleaning time based on the amount of trash as it is drained. It will sample the water in the washer and if it is within a specific range, it will repeat the wash cycle. Otherwise it will stop the wash and start the rinse. Run time can be from 30 min to 2.5 hours depending on how dirty the dishes are. I doubt we have this level of analysis in our trucks.

Per the manual if you do low speed or short distance driving you still follow the OLM for oil changes.

It doesn't specify exaxtly what it uses but it does say to expect the Oil Change Required message at different intervals depending on a few general criteria:

 

[EricR]

<snip>
I would be interested to see what parameters Ford uses. I would suggest that it is probably a "dumb" system that looks at Run Time, Idle Time, Ambient Temperature, Engine Temperature, Driving Mode (Tow, Sport, etc) and makes recommendations based on a matrix.

<snip>

I have no inside knowledge of the OLM parameters, and like you I would love to know what they are.

That said, you seem to be "a cup half full" / kinda jaded on this topic.

1) Just with the parameters you mention the OLM doesn't sound all that "dumb" to me.

Then, one could add (including Ford engineers) a multitude of parameters the truck is already tracking / managing, such as throttle body position, oxygen sensors, trans temp, knock sensors, altitude gain, turbo boost PSI & duration, AC usage, RPM, idle time, and more.

2) The OLM in our 2021 is smarter than you imply, or are willing to give Ford credit for, as it adapts to towing even though we rarely use Tow/Haul mode.

After changing the oil at 9000 miles (about 1000 early per OLM) we set out on a 5000 mile, late spring trip to the Moab area with our travel trailer.

Upon return the OLM indicated nearly 0% oil life left.

250 miles or less of that 5000 mile trip were in tow/haul mode.

Count me as impressed!

 

[Atlee]

That was one example, I’m planning to get my own oil analyzed. But my point is that I’ve seen much more evidence to support following OLM’s on these trucks and other cars than I have seen to support this 3-5k myth. In fact, I’ve yet to see an oil analysis of a modern car with good oil driven normally that suggests a 3-5k oil change. I’m not sure what Andre’s credentials have to do with a 3rd party analysis of his oil…I watch FordBossMe all the time, he’s a wealth of great information. His oil change interval suggestions aren’t based in science though.

More frequent oil changes is cheap insurance, but for me they feel like a waste of time and money. I’d be changing my oil every 5 weeks at 3,000 mile intervals…

Also the OLM isn’t a flat 10,000 miles. It takes into account your conditions, so it would recommend a sooner oil change for people in severe service

For what another anecdote is worth (which I understand isn’t much given the facts around it), I had a ‘13 mustang before. Ran it from 13,000 to 140,000 miles before selling it, to include track days, test & tune, autocross. It was tuned with a raised rev limiter and I drove it pretty hard. Based on blackstone, I ran 8-9k mile oil changes on it and she ran like a top.

For me, 5K changes are not a myth. I tow a lot, enough to consider it "Severe" service by Ford's definition. Severe service under Ford's definition is 5,000 to 7,500 miles. I use Motorcraft Synthetic blend so I change every 5k miles.

 

[texski]

I have no inside knowledge of the OLM parameters, and like you I would love to know what they are.

That said, you seem to be "a cup half full" / kinda jaded on this topic.

1) Just with the parameters you mention the OLM doesn't sound all that "dumb" to me.

Then, one could add (including Ford engineers) a multitude of parameters the truck is already tracking / managing, such as throttle body position, oxygen sensors, trans temp, knock sensors, altitude gain, turbo boost PSI & duration, AC usage, RPM, idle time, and more.

2) The OLM in our 2021 is smarter than you imply, or are willing to give Ford credit for, as it adapts to towing even though we rarely use Tow/Haul mode.

After changing the oil at 9000 miles (about 1000 early per OLM) we set out on a 5000 mile, late spring trip to the Moab area with our travel trailer.

Upon return the OLM indicated nearly 0% oil life left.

250 miles or less of that 5000 mile trip were in tow/haul mode.

Count me as impressed!

I think you misunderstand the use of "dumb" and "smart". Dumb does not infer lack of data or ignorance. My example of our dishwasher is a good example of how the system actually monitors the environment, not extrapolate based on other parameters. It measures the amount of particles found in the waste water to judge cleanliness. A dumb washer runs canned cycles based on time.

But you have given a critical, thoughtful response, and I will respectfully submit a thorough reply.

Jaded/half empty ... ha ha ha. In 2007, I purchased a Dodge Ram 2500, loaded with a 6.7L Cummins. I think I paid $65-ish. In less than 1 year, the engine quit. Under warranty, the dealer towed it in and said That will be $29,000 please (a new long block as $26k). Around 19k miles, and under the mfg recommended service interval, the oil/water separator filter had failed. The Service Manager said he had never seen such damage caused by water. It looked like it had 75k miles and had been driven in a lake. There was an investigation and found the filter was faulty. Dodge accepted no responsibility nor liability. Their response, maintenance intervals are their recommendation, and could not be held liable if a part had failed. I prefer critical over jaded, but I hope that people can benefit from bad experiences.

But let's get to lubrication. Our engines are considered a "closed" system where the oil is not, technically, exposed to the environment. The only contaminates that are introduced into the oil are generated from the engine itself (except the debris that passed through the air filter). You have primarily 3 types:
1) carbon (a byproduct of the ignition of oil/gas),
2) metallic particles (insolubles), and
3) fuel or coolant (bypassed contaminates).

Your oil will contain additives, primarily intended to counter friction. This is not to be confused with viscosity! I think some labs refer to this as lubricity, but check with your lab.

Please stick with me, this is where most people get confused. Oil does more than lubricate parts. Just because your Blackstone TBN is greater an 2 does not mean that your lubrication system is optimal or efficient. If you have a decreased flashpoint, increased potassium or insolubles, your oil cannot correct this. Fuel in your oil (decreased flashpoint), potassium (found in coolant), or insoluble metal particles are independent of the type of oil or filter you use.

And in the case of turbos, more carbon will be produced and settle in your oil filter. I'll save the discussion for turbos for another time, but please know that these engines produce a more hostile environment than normally aspirated engines and benefit from additional maintenance.

But back to the oil. There are many factors that influence oil's efficiency, as you so well noted. But the instruments found in a lab are not installed in your engine ... that would be "smart." Engineers of various disciplines will examine data and then try to predict outcomes. These are very general and rarely revised. Otherwise, you would get an updated maintenance schedule after your warranty expires, that takes into account mileage and know wear issues, like reduce change intervals from 10k to 7.5k after 75k, 5k after 150k.

Again, these are general recommendations based on a large sampling of data. If you have 1 compression ring that is out of tolerance (or a oil/water separator that is faulty), these recommendations do not apply to your specific situation. You now have oil and filter that must now deal with more carbon and more metallic particles, which these original data did not include. The "dumb" Oil Life Monitor has no way to account for these incursions. If your head gasket has the smallest leak (because you have boosted the compression in your cylinder), the coolant/fuel will decrease the life of your rotating assembly. Again, OLM has no way to monitor this. If you have more metallic particles and carbon in your oil, the flow rate of the filter will be restricted, and the ability to lubricate and cool your engine will be impaired ... causing more wear, more blockage, more wear. And this is exasperated if you choose a 35 micron filter instead of a 21 micron. (I don't want to chase rabbits in the filtration size.) My point is that while the OLM samples alot of variables, it does not evaluate the oil itself. Many things that contribute to the longevity of the oil, but not the oil itself.

The best way to monitor the effectiveness of your oil is to have it analyzed. This is common in the diesel and aircraft industries. They do a spectrum analysis to identify the elements in the oil, measure flashpoint, viscosity and other things. Then they compare those findings to a sample of the same type of oil, but virgin (for a baseline). They compare insoluble metals and additives of these 2 samples. Generally they will compare these values to a "universal" or large data base of this exact engine and evaluate THIS engine with the data from all the other engines to see if there are anomalies.

Making assumptions based on someone who has a couple of Blackstone Lab reports or a "dumb" spreadsheet, has limitations. If you need an example, then consider Ford recommended 5W-20 in my 1997 F150 4.6. Years later, mechanics and service advisors told me they had changed to 5W-30 because 20 was too thin. And yet I never got that letter from Ford.

So it is not about being jaded or half-empty. Understanding that multinational corporations may have ulterior motives, and doing the research yourself may provide more reliable results.

Know that people make mistakes and planes crash. Engineers are falliable, and many manufacturing decisions include accountants. As you collect more data, numbers move and outcomes are updated. Some people want to argue because their beliefs are being challenged. Some don't understand lubricity and want simple solutions ... "I trust what the engineers say." And some need more cards in their hand before they can make a good judgement. It is those who need more cards that I wrote this. This is not a complete or exhaustive work. It is not a technical piece or worthy of a journal. But I hope that you realize that there are notable benefits gained from more frequent oil replacement ... especially in turbo applications.

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