21+ downpipe difference from 18-20?

[Svt54]

As the title says, I am looking for someone who has owned and worked on both of them to tell me what the differences are? My last gen truck was a 5.0 so I am not as familiar with the ecoboost. Did the flange that mounts to the turbo change, or are there drastic changes in the shape or routing?

I am wanting to put a Raptor true dual setup on my 23 3.5 and I am trying to figure out what will fit. I know the Raptor down pipes fit the 18-20. I am trying to figure out if they will bolt up on the 23 as well. Worst case, I guess I could cut the Y off of the existing down pipes and fab the connections to the Raptor mid pipe, but I would rather use factory fit parts.

Any insight is appreciated.

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[techracer]

I looked into putting a dual exit exhaust from a 2021 on my 2020 and was told the flanges on the end of the downpipes where the exhaust bolts up are opposite on gen14 but otherwise should work. I'm not sure about the turbo side but I seem to recall there is a difference there as well.

 

[Facemelter]

Just joined a Raptor forum to help try to get this narrowed down as well. I'm wanting to install the full true duals and rear Tremor/Raptor bumper.

I know the linked rear suspension makes it difficult to have the 23 Raptor system work on our leaf spring rear. I also have a 6.5 foot bed which should make it more fun installing something made for a short bed.

 

[Svt54]

I sent this to SPD:

I am looking to install a Raptor true dual exhaust on my 23 F-150 3.5 Ecoboost. I have an OEM 19 Raptor cat back and need to order a few parts for the hangers. I have seen this done with your downpipes on a 17-20 non Raptor. Can you tell me if your Raptor down pipes will bolt up and generally fit on a 23? I don't see much listed for the 21+ non Raptors from anyone, so I did not know if there was a change in the flanges that keep them from mating up or what the issue is? Any guidance would be appreciated.

And here was the response I got back:

The Gen 3 Raptor downpipe will connect to your 2023 F150 with no problems. The only issue you will have is the mid pipe. There are no bolt on parts that will connect a Gen 3 downpipe to a Gen 2 muffler. You will be on your own to figure this one out but any muffler shop can fabricate something for you in under 2 hours. They will also be able to fabricate any hangers you will need with ease.

So in a nutshell....
The GEN 2 (17-20) Raptor downpipes won't bolt to the turbos.
The GEN 3 Raptor downpipes will bolt to the turbos, but will not mate to the GEN 2 mid pipes.
The GEN 3 cat back is not an option because it has IRS and is totally different in the rear.

I believe what I am going to do is get the SPD trombone mid pipe for the GEN 2, to go with my GEN 2 cat back. I will mount the mid pipe and cat back and have a reputable exhaust shop. My plan is to have them cut the "Y" out of the factory down pipes and fab up true dual flanges from each down pipe to the GEN 2 mid pipe. I was hoping to not have to modify the factory parts, but this should work. I am not gonna buy $2400 worth of factory downpipes, and on the Raptor forum, the general consensus is that the SPD down pipes mated with a resonator delete is raspy.

So I am gonna go with my current factory cats, mated to the trombone mid pipe then mated to the factory GEN 2 Raptor muffler and tail pipes. I need to order the trombone.

We will see how this goes....

BTW, I plan to use the Tremor bumper as well. That part is pretty straight forward.

 

[Facemelter]

I sent this to SPD:

I am looking to install a Raptor true dual exhaust on my 23 F-150 3.5 Ecoboost. I have an OEM 19 Raptor cat back and need to order a few parts for the hangers. I have seen this done with your downpipes on a 17-20 non Raptor. Can you tell me if your Raptor down pipes will bolt up and generally fit on a 23? I don't see much listed for the 21+ non Raptors from anyone, so I did not know if there was a change in the flanges that keep them from mating up or what the issue is? Any guidance would be appreciated.

And here was the response I got back:

The Gen 3 Raptor downpipe will connect to your 2023 F150 with no problems. The only issue you will have is the mid pipe. There are no bolt on parts that will connect a Gen 3 downpipe to a Gen 2 muffler. You will be on your own to figure this one out but any muffler shop can fabricate something for you in under 2 hours. They will also be able to fabricate any hangers you will need with ease.

So in a nutshell....
The GEN 2 (17-20) Raptor downpipes won't bolt to the turbos.
The GEN 3 Raptor downpipes will bolt to the turbos, but will not mate to the GEN 2 mid pipes.
The GEN 3 cat back is not an option because it has IRS and is totally different in the rear.

I believe what I am going to do is get the SPD trombone mid pipe for the GEN 2, to go with my GEN 2 cat back. I will mount the mid pipe and cat back and have a reputable exhaust shop. My plan is to have them cut the "Y" out of the factory down pipes and fab up true dual flanges from each down pipe to the GEN 2 mid pipe. I was hoping to not have to modify the factory parts, but this should work. I am not gonna buy $2400 worth of factory downpipes, and on the Raptor forum, the general consensus is that the SPD down pipes mated with a resonator delete is raspy.

So I am gonna go with my current factory cats, mated to the trombone mid pipe then mated to the factory GEN 2 Raptor muffler and tail pipes. I need to order the trombone.

We will see how this goes....

BTW, I plan to use the Tremor bumper as well. That part is pretty straight forward.

Please keep this thread updated on your progress. I may follow what you're doing.

 

[Svt54]

The only thing I am unsure on is the resonator delete. I am debating if that $719 trombone is worth it or not. My exhaust guy can build me an H or X pipe res delete for probably 1/4 of that. I am going to complete this mod. Just debating what will go between the downpipes and the muffler.

 

[Henfield]

Take a deep dive into the parts book.

Find and compare the parts numbers. Its the only true way to determine if they are the same or different.

 

[superfordman]

We will see how this goes....

Good luck! Like I told you on the other forum, you're more ambitious that me since I've been wanting to do this for a year now, just haven't been brave enough to hack up my factory downpipe yet, plus was waiting for my new truck, so I guess I'm out of excuses now...

What they said it right on, 21+ have a different/better turbo flange, so 21+ downpipes are pretty much your only option anyways. You'll have to make your own mid pipe anyways, especially with a 6.5 bed like me. A gen3 raptor muffler and tail pipe won't fit at all so don't try, stick with a gen2 and it'll bolt right up.

If you want to go the trombone route like I want to, just order a ML3Z-5A212-T factory one like I did then use it as a reference for you downpipe and mid pipe modification. My big conundrum was to x pipe or not between the trombone and resonator. I was leaning more towards the x pipe side, but would need to fab one up.

 

[Svt54]

@superfordman is that part number the factory trombone for a Gen 3?

Does it mate to the Gen 2 muffler without modification?

 

[Svt54]

@superfordman I am a little torn on if it needs an X or an H. I know they have been around since fox body Mustangs, but ford didn't put an H in the Gen 3 Raptor, and it seems everyone's goal is to achieve the sound of that.

In my mind, if you put an X pipe in, does it defeat the purpose of the equal length? I mean if the gasses are merging together in an X pipe, why does it matter if the pipes are equal length before? I don't know. I may be wrong. I think the X and H setups were about flow and back pressure. I don't see that being an issue with a 3.5 breathing through good size dual pipes.

I think I may go with the Ford oem trombone with a small bullet style resonator in each pipe behind it, then into the factory muffler and see what I get.

 

[superfordman]

@superfordman is that part number the factory trombone for a Gen 3?

Does it mate to the Gen 2 muffler without modification?

Yup!
Funny enough, I have both sitting in my shop now and meant to try that this evening to see how they lined up but forgot to, so will try too tomorrow and report back.

@superfordman I am a little torn on if it needs an X or an H. I know they have been around since fox body Mustangs, but ford didn't put an H in the Gen 3 Raptor, and it seems everyone's goal is to achieve the sound of that.

In my mind, if you put an X pipe in, does it defeat the purpose of the equal length? I mean if the gasses are merging together in an X pipe, why does it matter if the pipes are equal length before? I don't know. I may be wrong. I think the X and H setups were about flow and back pressure. I don't see that being an issue with a 3.5 breathing through good size dual pipes.

I think I may go with the Ford oem trombone with a small bullet style resonator in each pipe behind it, then into the factory muffler and see what I get.

Ahh, but they do have an X pipe on the factory gen3 setup, its right behind the muffler now along with the little third pipe adjustable exhaust valve that dumps into it. All the research I did, I was easily leaning towards X pipe as that is what the OEM and aftermarket offer. An X pipe keeps everything equal, but just helps to balance and equal out flow and sound. A question I had then is a gen2 system a true dual system then? Because there is no X pipe you can see, unless the gen2 muffler has an internal X pipe, which again I've always meant to check but never have, but will now that I think about it.

 

[Svt54]

I can't verify for certain, but in the long thread on the Raptor forum about the SPD trombone, someone had mentioned the factory muffler not having a crossover like a Magnaflow.

That's good info On the Gen 3 setup. I have never seen an X pipe after the muffler before

 

[Svt54]

Also looking at that diagram, it looks like Ford did bullet resonators right after the cats

 

[superfordman]

I can't verify for certain, but in the long thread on the Raptor forum about the SPD trombone, someone had mentioned the factory muffler not having a crossover like a Magnaflow.

I'm about 99% there is no X pipe muffler in the gen2 system, so that would make it a "true dual" then

Also looking at that diagram, it looks like Ford did bullet resonators right after the cats

Those are there on any gen14 turbo engine so nothing new there, more like a double cat system than a resonator.

 

[Svt54]

No actual progress update, but parts are coming together. I have the GEN 2 Raptor exhaust sitting in my garage. I just ordered the Tremor bumper caps and the Ford OEM Trombone from a GEN 3 Raptor. Once they get here, I will probably try to bench fab the muffler and trombone together. Once I have that figured out, the plan is to take it to the exhaust shop and have them cut the Y pipe out of my downpipes and mate them to the trombone.

ZFG recently tuned a 21 with SPD Raptor downpipes. The thing made great power, but when someone asked, he said the down pipes added about 20hp. $2200 for 20hp is not a good return on investment to me.

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