Ford cutting workforce at F-150 Lightning plant in Dearborn

[brfertig]

https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...ric-vehicle-center-dearborn-cuts/73117641007/

Sponsored

 

[EL5_Zero]

An EV truck isn't really practical in the pickup truck market. In order for an EV truck to go the distance it requires a big heavy battery, thus reducing the trucks payload. Let's say the trucks come with a sufficient battery range that is also somewhat light. The infrastructure for recharging still isn't here. I still think the EV technology in a small compact commuter vehicle is where it should stay.

 

[fordhouston]

I still think the EV technology in a small compact commuter vehicle is where it should stay.

yep or hybrid for larger vehicles.

 

[Dakar09]

Agree with @EL5_Zero.

I think Ford gambled big here on getting a full-sized EV pickup to market before CyberTruck took off, and neither one is needed. The Lightning is a disappointment for many reasons, and the early journalist testing with towing and long-distance travel really buried it. As noted, the infrastructure doesn't exist and adding 3-4 hours to any trip for charging time (sometimes multiple stops to charge) is something most Americans aren't willing to put up with, especially when there is no benefit whatsoever for "the environment".

 

[gh8toes]

I will NEVER buy an EV anything.........

 

[ghostbit]

Cut the prices by at least $15k and I bet they will sell easily.

 

[My 2ND Ford]

Cut the prices by at least $15k and I bet they will sell easily.

Ford is offering right now on a 2023 Lighting XLT Extended range, up to $15,000 with $7,500 in retail bonus cash, plus $7,500 in potential tax credits. The savings are there, if an EV truck works for you.

 

[Smokewagun]

I love reading posts on the Lightning since I owned one. Most who post about them don’t know anything about the Lightning except what they read in the media. And that is so skewed.
I agree, an all battery truck is not where it’s at. In addition, you really need to put miles on to make it worth it, but then, it depends on your travel ways. Rural? City? Highway? Or interstate. The latter? Nope.
Had I had a gasser to fall back on in case I needed it on long range days, I’d still have the Lightning. I was on target to save all of my yearly cost for gas at almost $8000, and my charging options were not $1000 a year. Really, no maintenance. And it was better than any of the F150’s I’ve ever owned on ALL accounts. However, as noted, the infrastructure is NOT there, despite the rapid popping up of chargers everywhere. So many are 6kW or less units that DO take a long time, when the fast chargers take 15-20 minutes.
I found I wasn’t going to save as much, although a serious savings still existed, because we would take my wife’s car when we questioned range, we’re not charged to the needed range and questioned charger availability, had vacation trips planned, or it was cold and range might be in question. Note the unknowns?
Again, I’d still have it if i had a fall-back, and real frank, that fall-back need likely rarely existed or would have existed, BUT it was a discomfort and question i did not want to endure for the vehicle cost at this time.
Then, add in the media beating the EV’s down so bad, values tanked. Add in the thoughts if Ford is going to abort the lightning, and I'd get stuck with a red herring (I'm too old to wait until its limited "Tucker's Made" value), or "who wants a 100,000 mile two and a half year old truck" when i trade it? These things told me to jump ship. Am I happy? No. But it's what I had to do.
Ford nailed the Lightning on ALL accounts, except the biggest one… what they try to stand on… "We build trucks that build America!" Well sorry Jimmy Farley, not this one. As a commuter, yes. As a work truck?
No, not in any capacity. Although, my payload was 1,998# on a standard range Lariat, more than ANY ICE Lariat crew cab on the market.

 

[Dakar09]

I appreciate the honest insight from someone who actually owned one.

The one thing I disagree with is the "media beating down EVs". The "media" couldn't tout EVs enough but finally started reporting on the truth of owning them. And no one wants a used EV, regardless of make or model, due to unknown reliability, service life of the batteries, cost to replace said batteries, and (as noted) the utter lack of infrastructure to support them. If they weren't being forced on people, I think the general population wouldn't have such an overall skeptical view of them. And automakers wouldn't be rushing them out to market.

That said, I happen to think the Lightning is a gorgeous truck. I spent a lot of time in their showroom model when I was ordering my '24 F150. Aesthetically it was very nice.

 

[Smokewagun]

I agree with what you have said. Frankly, there is a lot of “news” that is incorrect. The wear on tires, the time to charge, the range, etc. I talked with more people in my Lightning travels that were so thankful for the real world information I could provide. It’s really not that bad as the media reports, BUT the media latches on to one thing, and beats it to death.
The main thing with any EV is you HAVE to do your research. The Lightning WAS perfect for me IF I had a fall-back. I didn’t. I watched my battery state of health, and it never moved. Studies show the batteries will outlast the truck, however, I was limited on using my truck for trips and going into the north woods, just because of infrastructure. I made a judgment call to bail on several points I felt I could be up against, and won’t look back with failure or animosity. I loved the truck. It just wasn’t time.

 

[Dadofjax]

Cut the prices by at least $15k and I bet they will sell easily.

Nope at least $20k before they are practical. Even then if you are using it as a truck still wouldn't be practical.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

FYI, I drive a Lightning. Coming from a previous ICE F-150 (and having driven a RAM and Tundra for work), I would never go back. In my very humble opinion, it's better at everything, even towing. Respectfully (not trying to start a fight), here are some of the statements I hear about EVs:

Can it tow 320 miles in a straight shot? Nope. Can I tow 160 miles which is more than enough for where we live and travel to? Yep. Towing actually feels more responsive, smoother, and with more control than an ICE. Soon that 160 mile limitation won't be as big of a deal since pull thru chargers are currently being built and the infrastructure ramped up.

What about Fast Charging, it's so unreliable and hard to find?
Access to Superchargers has made that a thing of simplicity. I have yet to have an issue where I run out of charge because a DCFC (DC Fast Charger) is too far away, or not working. Does it happen? Yes. Do ICE vehicles run out of gas and need someone to go get a can at the closest gas station? Yes.

But DCFC takes so long...you have to stop all the time.
I don't know about you, but every 4-5 hours (my range) I need to stop for a pee break, snacks, or food. Since I have kids, a wife, and dogs; make that every 2-3 hours. Why do I need to be able to drive more than 5 hours at a time if I struggle to even sit in a vehicle that long with my family? I plug in, go get my stuff done, and by the time I'm done I have enough juice to keep going until the next pee break. Until you actually use an EV, everything seems scary.

But, electricity is so expensive to charge up your EV.
I fill up at home. I pay $0.074 per kW during off-peak (when I charge). My "tank" gets 320 miles. It costs me less than $10 to get 320 miles. If you DCFC, then yes, the price is comparable to gas (not more).

But, they have battery issues after 100,000 miles.
This is the biggest myth about Electric Vehicles. The batteries don't just die at 100k miles, yes they lose some capacity. A Lightning owner just hit close to 100k miles and they still have 97% of their original capacity remaining. So, instead of getting 320 miles of range, they get 310. Is that broken? Nope. Does the battery need to be replaced? Nope.

But, ICE vehicles don't have to worry about range loss with battery degradation.
Do you think that after 100k miles you are still getting your full MPG? No. Are you even getting 97% of you previous MPG?

But, they catch on fire.
ICE vehicle are 20 to 30 times more likely to catch on fire based on the amount of ICE on the road and percentage of them that have caught on fire.

I'm honestly not trying to start a fight, or even make a claim the Lightning is better than an ICE truck. I'm not trying to convince you to buy one, get the truck YOU like and the truck that makes sense for you. I love my truck, you love yours....awesome! There are use cases where an EV doesn't make sense. Just trying to point out how exaggerated a lot of what has been reported in the media is. EV's aren't as scary as some people make them out to be. For those that are so anti-EV, go test drive a Lightning, it may surprise you.

 

[brfertig]

This took a different turn in conversation than I had anticipated. I am concerned for the future of Ford, its workforce, its parts suppliers, and the overall economy. These ridiculous policies founded on lies from the current administration and the general public's belief that climate is the greatest crisis we have is killing the economy, the job market, the future, and I bet somehow its killing puppies. Puppies are dying because of this nonsense. Might as well start my own lies.

 

[Dadofjax]

FYI, I drive a Lightning. Coming from a previous ICE F-150 (and having driven a RAM and Tundra for work), I would never go back. In my very humble opinion, it's better at everything, even towing. Respectfully (not trying to start a fight), here are some of the statements I hear about EVs:

Can it tow 320 miles in a straight shot? Nope. Can I tow 160 miles which is more than enough for where we live and travel to? Yep. Towing actually feels more responsive, smoother, and with more control than an ICE. Soon that 160 mile limitation won't be as big of a deal since pull thru chargers are currently being built and the infrastructure ramped up.

What about Fast Charging, it's so unreliable and hard to find?
Access to Superchargers has made that a thing of simplicity. I have yet to have an issue where I run out of charge because a DCFC (DC Fast Charger) is too far away, or not working. Does it happen? Yes. Do ICE vehicles run out of gas and need someone to go get a can at the closest gas station? Yes.

But DCFC takes so long...you have to stop all the time.
I don't know about you, but every 4-5 hours (my range) I need to stop for a pee break, snacks, or food. Since I have kids, a wife, and dogs; make that every 2-3 hours. Why do I need to be able to drive more than 5 hours at a time if I struggle to even sit in a vehicle that long with my family? I plug in, go get my stuff done, and by the time I'm done I have enough juice to keep going until the next pee break. Until you actually use an EV, everything seems scary.

But, electricity is so expensive to charge up your EV.
I fill up at home. I pay $0.074 per kW during off-peak (when I charge). My "tank" gets 320 miles. It costs me less than $10 to get 320 miles. If you DCFC, then yes, the price is comparable to gas (not more).

But, they have battery issues after 100,000 miles.
This is the biggest myth about Electric Vehicles. The batteries don't just die at 100k miles, yes they lose some capacity. A Lightning owner just hit close to 100k miles and they still have 97% of their original capacity remaining. So, instead of getting 320 miles of range, they get 310. Is that broken? Nope. Does the battery need to be replaced? Nope.

But, ICE vehicles don't have to worry about range loss with battery degradation.
Do you think that after 100k miles you are still getting your full MPG? No. Are you even getting 97% of you previous MPG?

But, they catch on fire.
ICE vehicle are 20 to 30 times more likely to catch on fire based on the amount of ICE on the road and percentage of them that have caught on fire.

I'm honestly not trying to start a fight, or even make a claim the Lightning is better than an ICE truck. I'm not trying to convince you to buy one, get the truck YOU like and the truck that makes sense for you. I love my truck, you love yours....awesome! There are use cases where an EV doesn't make sense. Just trying to point out how exaggerated a lot of what has been reported in the media is. EV's aren't as scary as some people make them out to be. For those that are so anti-EV, go test drive a Lightning, it may surprise you.

What are you towing that you can get a 160 miles on? Do you live in a northern state? Now you are down to 80 miles towing in the winter if you are.

We pull a 8.5x20 aluminum enclosed trailer for my son's racing no way I would get 160 miles in a lightning pulling that.

Our 1st trip this year is 770 miles.

ICE two maybe three stops
Lightning 7 stops

I'm not against EV will most likely get one when my wife edge dies.

I've test drove a Lightning it was fun but almost identical to my 2021 Lariat in every other way at $25k (back then $40k with market adjustment) more.

The lightnings are overpriced and not practical in my opinion but everyone's real world experience will be different.

 

[Antimatter22]

EV trucks have a use case, just like ICE trucks. Not sure why people feel like everyone tows 10,000lb trailers from the west coast to the east coast every week. Sure, there are cases where an EV truck doesn't make sense, but there are other cases where an EV truck makes more sense than an ICE. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it won't work for someone else.

The problem currently is the high price for one, whether it's justified (engineering costs vs units sold) or not. Had Ford priced the EV similar to an ICE then I'm sure they would have sold a lot more. Trucks in general are over priced but we all keep buying them so there's no incentive to lowering it.

Sponsored