Ford cutting workforce at F-150 Lightning plant in Dearborn

[HammaMan]

If you can get over it being a Ram, you should look at the Ramcharger.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/electric/ram-1500-ramcharger.html

Sorry, I know I'm way off topic now.

That thing is going to be a 9900lb GVWR uber piggy with 2 tons on that front axle. They also just laid off 400 engineers. Not a good look when they're about to release a whole bunch of new tech vehicles they really have no experience in. I know the charger / challenger fans are pissed.

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[GypsyDanger]

It wasn't just one article. It's a bunch over the last 2-3 months.
ABC, CNBC, Bloomberg, USA Today, Business Insider, Fox, etc....

Maybe globally it's different but California saw EV sales drop 10% in Q4 '23.
I think many bought into the hype and then realized it's not practical for them. One of my cousins bought a Tesla and has to compete with others in his building for one of the coveted chargers. Leave it in too long and you'll get hit with "idle fees" because you know.....keep it fair so everyone can have a chance to charge.

By the way, the reason cited by Forbes were:

• Unfamiliarity with the product
• Lingering Concerns of Range
• Limited Charging Network
• Early Adopters Have Been Fulfilled
• High-Interest Rates

Its a double edged sword. Telsa was able to cut prices and under cut competition with their pricing model. It also makes it hard to trade one in as dealers could lose thousands over night if they cut the price of new models. Model Ys are relatively well priced after the tax credit.

 

[HammaMan]

It wasn't just one article. It's a bunch over the last 2-3 months.
ABC, CNBC, Bloomberg, USA Today, Business Insider, Fox, etc....

Maybe globally it's different but California saw EV sales drop 10% in Q4 '23.
I think many bought into the hype and then realized it's not practical for them. One of my cousins bought a Tesla and has to compete with others in his building for one of the coveted chargers. Leave it in too long and you'll get hit with "idle fees" because you know.....keep it fair so everyone can have a chance to charge.

By the way, the reason cited by Forbes were:

• Unfamiliarity with the product
• Lingering Concerns of Range
• Limited Charging Network
• Early Adopters Have Been Fulfilled
• High-Interest Rates

Could you find those articles by chance? Everytime I hear such opinions and ask for sources, none show up. California saw a 29% increase in EV sales YoY 22 to 23. While total vehicle sales were down 2.7%, EV sales were still up 8.2% (Q4). That means ICE sales have declined significantly. ICE vehicles have been declining for 5-7 years now globally, not just in the US.

 

[Los150]

Its a double edged sword. Telsa was able to cut prices and under cut competition with their pricing model. It also makes it hard to trade one in as dealers could lose thousands over night if they cut the price of new models. Model Ys are relatively well priced after the tax credit.

I do know that my dealership told me they take in quite a few EVs regularly in exchange for ICE vehicles and the day I went to pick up my F-150, I saw two families trade in their Teslas. I love the looks of the Tesla S. Don't care for the others and I wanted one but then I came to my senses and realized that I'd be inconvenienced with charging, range, etc.... It definitely was not for me as my only vehicle. I'd consider an EV as a daily beater to/from work, if I still have an ICE ride for real drives. I tend to not stop on long drives, except for gas. I'll leave it filling up that tank while I drain the other "tank". Then hit the road again. I like to get to my destination as soon as possible.

 

[HammaMan]

Hertz is unloading a bunch of teslas right now because there's a learning curve to them and they can't just rent them out to anyone (EVs, not tesla specific). Infrastructure is all over the place, but at least right now tesla ford and rivian can use just about any charger out there making things much simpler. Furthermore the w/ fords, charging can be activated on-screen and not require all of the 3rd party apps.

The industry not unifying on one standard early on crippled what could have been a smooth rollout otherwise.

 

[Los150]

Could you find those articles by chance?

Google "EV sales decreasing". Just did that to confirm.

 

[My 2ND Ford]

Chevy bolt EUVs are the secret unknown EV deal of the year. You can get them as low as $20k out the door brand new. You can get them with heated / cooled seats and 360 cams for about 24k$. Brand new.

A very good friend of mine lives in Vermont. He has a Chevy Bolt that he uses every day for his side hustle. He does a 150 mile loop picking up Laboratory samples for veterinarians all year long. Loves the car . Charges at home, has solar on the house, Green mountain power gave him a level 2 charger with installation at no charge. He does have a 2020 ram 1500 and an aging Subaru outback, but the Bolt is his primary vehicle.
Ev's will work for some but not for everyone.

 

[HammaMan]

Google "EV sales decreasing". Just did that to confirm.

You're getting suckered with FUD headlines. Ignorant reporters (I know, a bit redundant) are trying to say that because the rate of growth hasn't continued to outpace itself, that's a decline. They're just idiots. It's as simple as number go up. Only a moron reporter could spin a continued increase in growth at fluctuating rates as a decline.

Some real golden ones here. News flash January sales don't hang with Decembers -- no fucking shit? So water is wet? Jan / Feb sucks for sales in general until the income tax refund ballers show up. The economy as a whole is pretty poor right now.

 

[Grafx36510]

@Smokewagun or @BennyTheBeaver, does the Lightning record your telematics like GM does and sell it to LexisNexis?
I wonder if this is the case for every EV or just GM. I know Tesla records your driving but I don't think they share it. I currently drive a '23 Chevy 3.0 Duramax and it is great. On the highway, I get nearly 30 MPG and it has good power. I think the lack of 110 outlets is well, lacking and I don't appreciate the increased expense for diesel fuel but that isn't GMs fault. What is absolutely SHITTY though is when I pulled my LexisNexis "Consumer Report" (the same thing all insurance companies use to raise your rates), it tracks and logs every single trip I make no matter how short and reports it so my insurance company sees it. Am I driving like shit? No. I simply do not want my time, speed, location, route, or anything else tracked by anybody. Thus, I ordered another F150 and will be picking it up in 2 weeks (it has already arrived at Granger).

That said, I know I can unplug the OnStar module under my dash and trigger a check engine light. I'd rather cut my losses and say FUCK GM. Back to my original question though, does the Lightning track and log your information and sell it to LexisNexis like GM? I know Toyota/Lexus do not (they may track and log it for all I know but I do know they don't share it).

Still, even after all of that, I think EV technology is close to where we need to be but just not quite where I need it to be. I need 300 miles towing and 600 miles empty. I know the charging infrastructure is being installed and the grids are slowly being modernized so I am not too concerned about that. I need towing and empty range. Until then, I applaud everyone for buying one and braving the market as it's a new technology. Without people buying them first, they will never get better. Soon, probably in 8-10 years, the motor, battery, and charging technologies will have improved to the point to make it more viable for me, just not today.

I have purposely avoided staying on topic with the original title of this thread because I have my own opinions about unions and I will keep those to myself so I do not offend anyone BUT that dammed telematics shit has to go away!!

Not to go off topic, but to answer your question, I received my lexisnesxis report and there is nothing in the 40+ pages from ford on there. And I have opted into data sharing, except usage based insurance.

 

[fatBatman]

Not to go off topic, but to answer your question, I received my lexisnesxis report and there is nothing in the 40+ pages from ford on there. And I have opted into data sharing, except usage based insurance.

Not to go off topic more, my Chevy that I have had since August has reported over 414 separate trips from pages 58-147.

 

[Dakar09]

EV sales were up 2022 to 2023 but have decreased in 2024. Yes, it's relative to the year before it, but they are under-performing on the retail market across the board. Hertz didn't ditch the EVs because of a "learning curve", they ditched them because no one was renting them and resale value is through the floor, so they stood to lose way more money than they anticipated.

If EVs are your thing, more power to you. As noted earlier, it's a lifestyle and takes changes to daily routines and long distance travel. It's the veganism of the automobile world, and it works for some people. I am not and will never be interested in owning one, particularly due to the social justice signaling of owning one when they are ALL charged off the grid (natural gas, coal, nuclear, hydro-electric). Cool technology, but its' time hasn't come. And what happened to hydrogen fuel cell cars? They were "electric" motors powered by a hydrogen fuel cell, an abundant element on this planet that is far more viable than the lithium mining to make these large, disposable, and toxic batteries.

For the Ram electric truck, it has an ICE V6 engine up front to "charge the battery", not propel the truck like a hybrid. This has to be the most idiotic "electric" concept I've ever seen, but it doesn't surprise me coming from Dodge. You actually have to put gas in an electric vehicle to charge the batteries.

 

[HammaMan]

EV sales were up 2022 to 2023 but have decreased in 2024. Yes, it's relative to the year before it, but they are under-performing on the retail market across the board. Hertz didn't ditch the EVs because of a "learning curve", they ditched them because no one was renting them and resale value is through the floor, so they stood to lose way more money than they anticipated.

Ford underperformed in Jan, but in Feb they're up 80% from feb of 23.

January is shitty month for sales in just about every sector unless some PMs get a new budget to buy stuff.

 

[walnutF150]

I will NEVER by an EV or Hybrid vehicle. And, I can't stand the fact that our government, who has no money, is is ringing up debt on a credit card to provide incentives for people to buy one these things. IMO, if the technology cannot stand on its own two feet financially then it should die. Rant is done .

 

[brfertig]

Me at an electric car show today. Check out these cars.
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/KcnVUGqKT5Q4pCqP/?mibextid=0VwfS7

 

[Paul Neubauer]

So what your saying is nobody wants these useless trucks and Ford is trying to reduce inventory...

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