what's your disappointment so far on what Ford Lightning has to offer

[PungoteagueDave]

SteffanG is right: there is NO requirement that you 'must' have the 80amp system or ER battery in order to be able to provide power to anything else, whether your 'home', your power tools, or another EV, especially if you have the 96.kwh option, available on the PRO, with 240v power outlet as a bonus. If you keep a NEMA14-50 to 4-prong generator adapter onboard, along with your 240v level two charge cable, you'd be able to charge any EV that accepts your J1772 charge plug.
It's all good - don't buy into 'having' to have some elaborate 'whole house' integrated system - use extension cords. Easy. No generator needed, either, and no noise. No one 'needs' to power their home's air conditioning system or oven or clothes dryer during 'trying times'... few things other than computers, internet modem, cell phones, fans, and the fridge will 'need' power.

our farm has mission-critical pumps running 24/7 - three hours without power and millions of oyster babies die! Serious enough issue that we have alarm systems on every pump that send texts when a pump goes down. I realize this is not a normal residential situation, but more people than folks might realize have a need for full power backup that is there and operational no matter what - breathing machines, oxygen, incubation, etc.

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[SteffanG]

our farm has mission-critical pumps running 24/7 - three hours without power and millions of oyster babies die! Serious enough issue that we have alarm systems on every pump that send texts when a pump goes down. I realize this is not a normal residential situation, but more people than folks might realize have a need for full power backup that is there and operational no matter what - breathing machines, oxygen, incubation, etc.

I have a similar situation. I have incubators and heat lamps that run 24/7. Luckily I dont lose power very much and if I do it isn't for very long. The load for just these is about 3kW. A few hours without power and I have birds starting to die and a possibility of having to throw away hundreds of eggs.
We use our generator from when we built the house if we ever lose power for a long time. The thing is LOUD though and has so many hours that I'm surprised it still starts and runs with no issue (if I remember correctly, it is a champion 9600W with about 800hours on it)

That said, there is no way I would pay for a transfer switch and inverter. Much easier and cheaper to just use the 240V plug on the truck and feed everything off that.

 

[EaglesPDX]

I understand that Ford is using electric resistance for heating

Keep in mind heat pumps are auxillary heaters that only work when car motors generate excess heat. It takes 20 minutes in the best of conditions to get heat and on cold days even that won't be enough. Average commute time is 27 minutes so all resistive heat mostly.

More efficient the EV, the less energy for the heat pumps, so we'll always have resistive heaters in EV's.

 

[Fordskeptic]

Keep in mind heat pumps are auxillary heaters that only work when car motors generate excess heat. It takes 20 minutes in the best of conditions to get heat and on cold days even that won't be enough. Average commute time is 27 minutes so all resistive heat mostly.

More efficient the EV, the less energy for the heat pumps, so we'll always have resistive heaters in EV's.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/hyundai-kias-new-ev-heat-pump-technology/

Maybe a combination of resistance heating and something like what Hyundai has.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Maybe a combination of resistance heating and something like what Hyundai has.

And Tesla 3/Y's. The heat pump makes sense for EV's to increase range. I didn't buy the Kona EV vs. Model 3 because US version at the time (2019) did not have the heat pump which would extend the 250 mile range in Winter.

Heat pump is good but EV's will always need a resistive heater.

There is another way and that is to phase shift the motors to make them inefficient which creates heat. I believe Tesla's Precondition does this. But that uses as much energy as the resistive heater but you could use it as substitute.

 

[uniblab]

This is not a Ford-formulated issue.

You know this for a fact? Were you involved with the design of the Lightning or was this just a knee-jerk response?

The rate at which an electro chemical battery pack gives up its electrons (and related effects such as heating) when discharged is directly related to battery capacity/life.

I think that depends upon the battery chemistry. Many types don't mind being deep-discharged, or rapidly-discharged.

It's a spectrum, not a matter of ER isn't damaged by use and SR would be with another 100hp allowed. But the SR would be damaged more at the same hp because a higher percentage of available electrons in overall pack are being discharged.

Again, I think that depends upon the chemistry. Lead-acid is different from NiCd is different from NiMH is different from various flavors of lithium. Hmmm... I wonder how Tesla manages to extract so much more power from a similar-sized battery pack? What is the difference in chemistry between the Lightning pack and the Tesla?

So what you are suggesting is that Ford should take more risk on warranty/customer satisfaction so that you can experience the same performance as a more qualified vehicle.

Please point out where I suggested that. I never suggested that Ford do anything, I merely questioned whether it was based upon battery chemistry or some arbitrary limit that Ford decided was right for marketing reasons. Remember the temp gauges that never move from 1/2 scale because they were really just on/off switches? Or putting a 435hp V-8 in a truck and limiting it to 395hp through software so as not to have better performance than the 3.5 Ecoboost?

Maybe they limited the SR Lightning because they couldn't have a lighter truck with a cheaper battery out-accelerating the more expensive ER trucks? Ford has their reasons for doing these things and they aren't always obvious. This is why I asked the question.

 

[jazzmanmonty]

SteffanG is right: there is NO requirement that you 'must' have the 80amp system or ER battery in order to be able to provide power to anything else, whether your 'home', your power tools, or another EV, especially if you have the 96.kwh option, available on the PRO, with 240v power outlet as a bonus. If you keep a NEMA14-50 to 4-prong generator adapter onboard, along with your 240v level two charge cable, you'd be able to charge any EV that accepts your J1772 charge plug.
It's all good - don't buy into 'having' to have some elaborate 'whole house' integrated system - use extension cords. Easy. No generator needed, either, and no noise. No one 'needs' to power their home's air conditioning system or oven or clothes dryer during 'trying times'... few things other than computers, internet modem, cell phones, fans, and the fridge will 'need' power.

I totally agree with what you say. I have a nice standard old-school generator in the garage if power goes out. And for the price of the ER upgrade, I can have a beautiful genrac system integrated into my home.. But the problem with not doing the whole ER with the 80 amp charger setup with bidirectional power is, that it seems that system feeds power that goes to your home fuse box and is regulated there. So if u trip a circuit you'd go to ur home fuse box to flip the switch. If u just get the 9.6 pro power and run extension cords to ur home, what happens if u overload? Does the lightning have circuit breakers you just switch back on? I won't know til I get mine and play with it, but wouldn't it be risky for the average person to just rely ont he trucks outlets and possible mess up or fry their trucks electrical system?

 

[SteffanG]

I totally agree with what you say. I have a nice standard old-school generator in the garage if power goes out. And for the price of the ER upgrade, I can have a beautiful genrac system integrated into my home.. But the problem with not doing the whole ER with the 80 amp charger setup with bidirectional power is, that it seems that system feeds power that goes to your home fuse box and is regulated there. So if u trip a circuit you'd go to ur home fuse box to flip the switch. If u just get the 9.6 pro power and run extension cords to ur home, what happens if u overload? Does the lightning have circuit breakers you just switch back on? I won't know til I get mine and play with it, but wouldn't it be risky for the average person to just rely ont he trucks outlets and possible mess up or fry their trucks electrical system?

If you look at the pro power that is on the trucks, yes there is a breaker associated with each set of plugs on the truck. If you overload it, it will trip the breaker on the truck.

 

[adoublee]

You know this for a fact? Were you involved with the design of the Lightning or was this just a knee-jerk response?


I think that depends upon the battery chemistry. Many types don't mind being deep-discharged, or rapidly-discharged.


Again, I think that depends upon the chemistry. Lead-acid is different from NiCd is different from NiMH is different from various flavors of lithium. Hmmm... I wonder how Tesla manages to extract so much more power from a similar-sized battery pack? What is the difference in chemistry between the Lightning pack and the Tesla?


Please point out where I suggested that. I never suggested that Ford do anything, I merely questioned whether it was based upon battery chemistry or some arbitrary limit that Ford decided was right for marketing reasons. Remember the temp gauges that never move from 1/2 scale because they were really just on/off switches? Or putting a 435hp V-8 in a truck and limiting it to 395hp through software so as not to have better performance than the 3.5 Ecoboost?

Maybe they limited the SR Lightning because they couldn't have a lighter truck with a cheaper battery out-accelerating the more expensive ER trucks? Ford has their reasons for doing these things and they aren't always obvious. This is why I asked the question.

The obvious answer to your question is that it is a decision on acceptable limits of battery degradation. If Tesla is your reference - consider why a SR model 3 has a 100k mile battery warranty (70% retention) and LR with larger battery pack has 120k mile warranty with same retention. And all this is ignoring Ford's towing capability variable, which could see some vehicles drawing peak levels of current more often.

 

[jb56]

I kind of think Ford may have missed an opportunity by not offering a Lariat with 6 seats. Seems like it would be even easier in an electric. I know most people prefer the set-up of the 5 seat interior, but a 6 seat option would have some interest I think. (Full disclosure, I have 4 kids, so it's nice to have 6 seats in my current truck)

 

[sotek2345]

I kind of think Ford may have missed an opportunity by not offering a Lariat with 6 seats. Seems like it would be even easier in an electric. I know most people prefer the set-up of the 5 seat interior, but a 6 seat option would have some interest I think. (Full disclosure, I have 4 kids, so it's nice to have 6 seats in my current truck)

I think it came down to retooling - they wanted to use the same cab sheetmetal as the ICE model - which means you get the transmission hump - even if it isn't needed for an EV. Doing the 5 seat setup hides this, but it would stick out like a sore thumb on a 6 seat model (I have a 6 seater now, but am OK changing - both of my kids are too big for that front center seat now anyways.)

 

[jb56]

I think it came down to retooling - they wanted to use the same cab sheetmetal as the ICE model - which means you get the transmission hump - even if it isn't needed for an EV. Doing the 5 seat setup hides this, but it would stick out like a sore thumb on a 6 seat model (I have a 6 seater now, but am OK changing - both of my kids are too big for that front center seat now anyways.)

Yeah, and I'm Ok to drop down to the 5 seater because it makes more options available, but my 2019 Lariat has 6 seats and it works out fine. Sure, I have to have the old school shifter and I couldn't get a 360 camera or heated rear seats for some reason, but otherwise it was pretty great.

 

[sotek2345]

Yeah, and I'm Ok to drop down to the 5 seater because it makes more options available, but my 2019 Lariat has 6 seats and it works out fine. Sure, I have to have the old school shifter and I couldn't get a 360 camera or heated rear seats for some reason, but otherwise it was pretty great.

The column shifter on my 2016 XLT is one of my favorite parts - I love the old school feel!

 

[WattsUp]

Simple, the only thing and every thing: charging speeds. When Ford announced 400V/150kw limit, I took the Lightning off my list. When Chevy announced 800V, 300+kw charging, it went on. The reason is touring and towing.

Having driven an EV (a Chevy Bolt, which if you're not familiar is a tiny urban/commuter car) for 3 years, I loved almost everything about it except it had no legs because of its slow, 50kw-best-case DCFC speeds. For a commuter car it didn't matter, I'd park it at home overnight on L2 AC charging and start every day with full range. But if I'm buying a truck I need to be able to take it from Buffalo to Boston to Burlington to Baltimore. I can suck it up when a 9 hr drive becomes an 11 hr drive, but I can't abide regular 11s into 14+ hr with charging.

For a touring or towing vehicle, I care about 1) range (how far I can go between charges) and 2) time charging/time driving (a bit complicated b/c as battery charge goes up, charging speed goes down, but think averages, here). The faster I can charge, the less time I spend waiting, the more time I spend driving, the shorter my total trip time. (Towing has the same challenges as touring, just cut your ranges in half.)

Some folks are going to test the edges of the payload and towing limits, but I'm not-- I need to move big/bulky/dirty/... stuff, help Aged Parents get where they need to be (or bring tools to fix their stuff, or take unwanted crap out of their house, or...). So for me, it's all about how quickly the vehicle can get where I need to be, and the biggest factor in that is how much time I spend parked, charging, above the 15 min restroom-burger-fuelup pitstop that's currently part of my cannonball run.

 

[Nick Gerteis]

If you look at the pro power that is on the trucks, yes there is a breaker associated with each set of plugs on the truck. If you overload it, it will trip the breaker on the truck.

Better yet, all the power outlets on the truck are also GFCI protected, so even though stringing extension cords….in the rain…has inherent dangers we’ll still be protected.

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