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vs. CyberTruck - A fair shake

Samson16

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When I mentioned extreme acceleration events, I meant the neck brace kind lol
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Buyer2021

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..... Tesla's research into cutting-edge .....
Speaking of "cutting edge", the closing frunk lopping-off the thick end of a carrot at 25:47 in the previous posted video is truly outrageous (the fact of it, not the video).

Even my lowly 2014 Ford Escape had finger-protecting 'crush sensors' in the gaskets completely surrounding its motorized-closing hatch (a finger in the gap caused the motor to reverse).

I never realized that there's so much that makes this vehicle not ready for production / release.
 
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Samson16

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The new Colorado/ Canyon is a poor seller as amazing as the tech, powertrain and look is. I just think the days where the average person is going to buy a new mid-size truck that only gets 20 mpg is mostly over. I've owned 2 Canyons in a row before my F150 and my diesel Canyon averaged 28 mpg. If the Canyon had 25-26 mpg on gas that would have been acceptable but really upper 20's should have been the goal.

Ultimately, I think nearly all vehicles should offer a hybrid drivetrain. The cost is minimal, and the benefits are real. More power, quieter, more efficient. But I agree, it's a bit late for that.

Look at the sales success that the Maverick is.

Regarding the CT, I had a deposit on one, before I had a full understanding of EV's.

The reality is that battery technology is where it's at. There is no giant leap coming from Tesla next week but instead incremental improvements over the next 1-2 decades that in time, will equal significant improvements.

Once you sort of wade through the Musk BS you start to recognize that Tesla in particular just builds lightweight, cheaply built EV's with actually quite small battery packs. Which is where a lot of the cost of an EV comes from. And a Tesla sized battery pack, was always going to be smaller than the Domestic options (to save money and weight) and as a result real world range was always going to be quite limited in a 7K# triangle on 35" AT tires. Poorly built basic cars, once hailed as 'futuristic', have always been a Tesla hallmark so no change there.

Once I sort of began putting together the puzzle and recognized the patterns of Tesla, I knew 100% that the price and range estimates for the CT were grotesquely exaggerated and so got my deposit back.

Musk's deposit system is brilliant. Collect half a billion in deposits on the CT alone, don't pay interest on it, use that money to build product with no intention of selling at the promised price or specs. It's literally a free loan! There are people that paid $250K up front in full for a founder's edition Roadster 6 years ago! Can you imagine? He doesn't give 2 craps if you actually buy or not, the free loan was the goal.

Even though the Sierra EV is rocking an extra 95% battery capacity, at similar prices, making it much more useable, I still think Hybrids are the future. If you think about it, when you pay an extra $30K up front for your Ev truck, you could have stuck that $30K in an interest bearing account and literally had gasoline for life for that ICE off of that money, at least as long as the battery pack in the EV would have lasted. Where are the savings?

I just dropped some considerably cash in to my '21 Limited so don't plan on changing anything for years. However, the only replacement truck that I'd even consider is the Ram plug in hybrid thing coming out next year. That's the game changer the industry needs, not the CT.

Of course, no 2 ways about it, no matter how much fuel I'd save with an upgraded truck, the most cost-effective solution is to just keep what I already have for many years to come.
I think Tesla makes the best EVs, but you make very interesting and quality points. Nicely put sir.
 

amschind

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My complaint about the Cybertruck is that it doesn't push the envelope at all. Hub motors with integrated fully electric brakes are the next big innovation because they pose engineering challenges which, when overcome, allow for the removal of MOST of the moving parts from a powertrain in a vehicle limited to LESS than 85 MPH.

Opposed piston two stroke compression ignition generators with turbine and steam bottoming cycles may get close to 60% electrical efficiency, which puts a truck at 50 MPG and a car at 75-100 MPG. Paired with a battery that can get 50 miles and a 30 gallon tank, I think that's it. Direct carbon or hydrogen fuel cells could eventually displace that basic design, but maybe by then everyone just lives inside Facebook 4.0 and nobody leaves home anyway.

I see the solution to a set of big problems as being possible with tech that we have right now, so when I see ideas that dance around it but miss, it's like looking at a big front wheel bicycle or a Chauchat: a goofy idea that made it to production because people were still flailing around the right answer.
 

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I ran across this video on CNN today, the vehicle is not furnished by Tesla but rented from a real-world owner.

Here's screen grabs of some details illustrating that the Cybertruck may indeed be, both figuratively and literally, the 'sharpest' and 'edgiest' vehicle on the road today

o_O
"This is not a truck for someone who just needs a good working vehicle. This is a truck for somebody who wants to give the world a giant middle finger." That quote seems to sum up many opinions fairly concisely.
 
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notabot

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"This is not a truck for someone who just needs a good working vehicle. This is a truck for somebody who wants to give the world a giant middle finger." That quote seems to sum up many opinions fairly concisely.
How does falling head over heels in line with the Great Reset and WEF give the world a giant middle finger?
 

Aron

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How does falling head over heels in line with the Great Reset and WEF give the world a giant middle finger?
Note that I didn't say that that was MY opinion, just that many people seem to have that opinion. For what it's worth, the "not for someone looking for a good working vehicle" part seems pretty spot on to me. The saying about how "Tesla isn't a vehicle company; it's a technology company" hits the nail on the head to me--including all of the "bad" attributes of a technology company, like releasing half-finished products in beta form, years behind schedule.

Regardless, I had never heard of the Great Reset or the WEF--I had to look it up--so admittedly, I might misunderstand your point completely. According to Wikipedia, the Great Reset's stated aim is to facilitate rebuilding from the global COVID-19 crisis in a way that prioritizes sustainable development. If that's the case, I'm not really seeing the linkage between that initiative and the CT. If you're interested in sustainable development, seems like any number of other EVs would hit that mark more closely.
 

Samson16

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like releasing half-finished products in beta form, years behind schedule.
The Model Y destroys that argument. Life is a paradox wrapped in hypocrisy 🥰🤷🏻‍♂️😳
Ok comically over the top.

The model Y makes a cogent counter argument.
 
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Samson16

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In what way?
The Model Y was announced in 2018, available for purchase in 2020, and in 2023 sold 1.23 million units.

The F-150 Lightning was announced in 2019, available for purchase in 2020, and the entire F-150 lineup has to limit the sales count to the USA or risk losing the crown to a mid-sized electric SUV from a technology company.
Edit: Lighting wasn’t available until 2022.
 
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The new Colorado/ Canyon is a poor seller as amazing as the tech, powertrain and look is. I just think the days where the average person is going to buy a new mid-size truck that only gets 20 mpg is mostly over. I've owned 2 Canyons in a row before my F150 and my diesel Canyon averaged 28 mpg. If the Canyon had 25-26 mpg on gas that would have been acceptable but really upper 20's should have been the goal.

Ultimately, I think nearly all vehicles should offer a hybrid drivetrain. The cost is minimal, and the benefits are real. More power, quieter, more efficient. But I agree, it's a bit late for that.

Look at the sales success that the Maverick is.

Regarding the CT, I had a deposit on one, before I had a full understanding of EV's.

The reality is that battery technology is where it's at. There is no giant leap coming from Tesla next week but instead incremental improvements over the next 1-2 decades that in time, will equal significant improvements.

Once you sort of wade through the Musk BS you start to recognize that Tesla in particular just builds lightweight, cheaply built EV's with actually quite small battery packs. Which is where a lot of the cost of an EV comes from. And a Tesla sized battery pack, was always going to be smaller than the Domestic options (to save money and weight) and as a result real world range was always going to be quite limited in a 7K# triangle on 35" AT tires. Poorly built basic cars, once hailed as 'futuristic', have always been a Tesla hallmark so no change there.

Once I sort of began putting together the puzzle and recognized the patterns of Tesla, I knew 100% that the price and range estimates for the CT were grotesquely exaggerated and so got my deposit back.

Musk's deposit system is brilliant. Collect half a billion in deposits on the CT alone, don't pay interest on it, use that money to build product with no intention of selling at the promised price or specs. It's literally a free loan! There are people that paid $250K up front in full for a founder's edition Roadster 6 years ago! Can you imagine? He doesn't give 2 craps if you actually buy or not, the free loan was the goal.

Even though the Sierra EV is rocking an extra 95% battery capacity, at similar prices, making it much more useable, I still think Hybrids are the future. If you think about it, when you pay an extra $30K up front for your Ev truck, you could have stuck that $30K in an interest bearing account and literally had gasoline for life for that ICE off of that money, at least as long as the battery pack in the EV would have lasted. Where are the savings?

I just dropped some considerably cash in to my '21 Limited so don't plan on changing anything for years. However, the only replacement truck that I'd even consider is the Ram plug in hybrid thing coming out next year. That's the game changer the industry needs, not the CT.

Of course, no 2 ways about it, no matter how much fuel I'd save with an upgraded truck, the most cost-effective solution is to just keep what I already have for many years to come.
I see the CT as precisely what they promised -- a $40k truck with a $100k price tag for now. When viewed as a $50k truck in AWD format, it makes considerably much more sense. Not ground breaking, not revolutionary, but another $50k tesla with the typical incremental upgrades. They're just running in profit maximization right now. Can't wait for the first teardown pricing results. Bet they're making a killing once they're at full production.
 

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Fuddy Duddys. 🤣

It's so cool that only in America would something so insane get built in numbers.

It doesn't make sense because it obviously was never going to. Look at the crazy thing. It's for play.
 

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However, the only replacement truck that I'd even consider is the Ram plug in hybrid thing coming out next year.
I'm in the same boat. I hope the Ramcharger is a success, if for nothing else than competition. I plan on keeping my eye on it when more info rolls out. I think it would be hard for me to go full EV where things are today, but I would definitely go PHEV if the vehicle made sense. The Ramcharger on paper would probably check the boxes but as we've seen with the CT, actual released numbers and real world use are the only things you can trust.
 
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I'm in the same boat. I hope the Ramcharger is a success, if for nothing else than competition. I plan on keeping my eye on it when more info rolls out. I think it would be hard for me to go full EV where things are today, but I would definitely go PHEV if the vehicle made sense. The Ramcharger on paper would probably check the boxes but as we've seen with the CT, actual released numbers and real world use are the only things you can trust.
Interesting data point on RAM BEV/REV, they're full 8 lug wheels. All other current EV trucks / SUVs are 6 lug so expect the ram to have some decent specs. Wouldn't at all be surprised to see the 2700lb payload / 14k towing spec they promised. Curb weight should be ~7500lbs. Wouldn't be surprised if they went for 9900lb GVWR on the nose with 3/4 ton hardware (should be interesting with fully independent suspension on all 4 corners).

Curious to see just how much truck is possible while getting the rebate ($80k max sticker for 7500$ fed rebate.) --- My guess is XLT equivalent.
 

Samson16

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Well, if the numbers are real it will be the greatest truck ever made.



2025 RAM 1500 Ramcharger Engine & Specs

The 2025 RAM 1500 Ramcharger features a plug-in hybrid powertrain that consists of a 3.6-liter V6 engine, a 250-kW front electric drive module, a 238-kW rear electric drive module, a 92-kWh battery pack, and a 130-kW onboard generator. Output is rated at 663 horsepower and 615 pound-feet of torque. RAM claims the truck can get to 60 mph in 4.4 seconds, can tow up to 14,000 pounds, and can haul up to 2,625 pounds.
Unlike most PHEVs on sale, the Ramcharger’s gas-powered V6 engine operates to provide the 130-kW onboard generator with power. The generator then routes power to both electric motors, which are the truck’s main forms of propulsion. This makes the Ramcharger more of an electric vehicle with a gas-powered generator. With the truck’s 27-gallon fuel tank filled to the brim, the truck has a range of up to 690 miles. Reports indicate that the truck has an all-electric range of up to 145 miles because of its 92-kWh battery pack.
——
#2625 payload
#14,000 tow rating
690 mile range
4.4s 0-60
7.2kW
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