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Using Hybrid Generator to power the house

GolfR

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Thanks for this, Golfr - just to be clear (I deal with 12V all the time but AC is a bit ofa mystery to me): if the neutral is grounded on the truck-side of the 30A connector, then why would connecting the ground wire to the grounded neutral be different from connecting it to truck ground?

Put another way: If I connect an ohm meter from grounded neutral to ground on the truck’s 30A receptacle, what would it read? Thanks again for your help.
The ground fault protection is looking for a short from the ground to any other leg of circuit. Much like what would happen in your bathroom, if either leg (hot or neutral) are shorted to ground by hitting your sink full of water, it will immediately disconnect the power. In the instance of hooking the truck into a house circuit, the house has ground and neutral shorted together at the breaker box so it trips the truck's ground fault protection. This works exactly as designed. The truck generator is likely designed this way because it's a completely floating generator system. The only ground for the truck itself is through the connections you make or you touching the door handle with your feet on the ground. The rubber tires are very good insulators.

The "danger" of using a non-bonded neutral/ground generator (Not the F150 system) with the cable described above is that the chassis ground (metal frame) would be completely floating. The only ground would be through the chassis to the pavement or cement it's sitting on which can be a terrible conductor. If the chassis ground floats or builds up voltage because there is no path to ground, a user could touch the chassis and short the potential energy to ground through their body. It would basically be like hitting yourself with a defibulator as the ground float could potentially be 100s of volts.

To the second question, the neutral and ground pins in the truck are bonded inside the truck so the potential difference (voltage) between the two is zero but because of the fault circuitry, there should be some measurable resistance. It will not be zero. The fault circuitry looks for a voltage drop over that resistance between the neutral and ground legs which only occurs if there is a current through that fault circuitry resistance. At least this is one way to do it, I don't know exactly how the truck is wired up.
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BLoflin

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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074KH4T7T/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

1 Foot of this from your local Home Depot: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...-Portable-Power-SJOOW-Cord-55812699/204725136

1642599431984.png


On the receptical (female) side wire this way. On the plug (male) side put both the return (neutral) and the Ground into the Neutral pin leaving the ground pin floating. This will issolate your ground from the neutral at the truck and avoid the ground fault.

This method and tool is "safe" if you use it for its intended purpose with the appropriate equipment. It could be very bad if you use this pigtail with an unbonded ground device or generator. Execute at your own risk...ring out the cable with a meter to make sure you have it right. If wiring diagrams or the use of a meter are foreign to you, I recommend you get help or simply don't do this. Also make absolutely certain your transfer box connection is disconnecting the main. Having this plugged in and the main on is very bad for many reasons.
I'm sorry if this offends anyone and I guess I just need to start ignoring these threads, as it get's very old, seeing a new person who comes in and tries to "ask permission" to do something that is not safe, then getting upset with the answer and wanting to do it anyway, keeps asking why, and won't accept the answer.

Just do what you want. You may live to be 100, who knows.

BUT.....

If you believe GFCI was invented for a reason, and is required in the code for outdoor outlets and outlets near a water source (i.e. bathroom) for a reason..... to save lifes, as it has and does...

THEN, doing what this post suggests is NOT SAFE, as the reason it "works" and prevents the PB from throwing a GndFault, is because you have DEFEATED the PB GFCI.

Again, maybe you and your family will live forever, and never experience a situation that the PB GFCI could have prevented.

The SAFE way to use the PB (with it's bonded neutral generator) to power anything is with a direct extension cord to the appliance or power tool.

OR if you want or must use (some of) your house circuits, then you must use a transfer switch that switches Neutral.
 

Gros Ventre

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The PB arrangement is a bonded-neutral generator, not a floating-neutral generator. This is a requirement of OSHA for a worksite generator used independently from other sources.
 

n8dgr8

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is because you have DEFEATED the PB GFCI.
Thanks for your clarification about losing GFI when you disconnect the ground wire. Current will travel from your hand, to your feet, to the earth, to the home grounding rod, to the neutral wire, back to the truck. The truck GFI can’t tell that current is flowing through you since the ground wire is broken. With the correct transfer switch, the current will go back through the ground wire and trip the GFI.
 

Snakebitten

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The EASIEST way to use the Powerboost generator to power your house during a power outage is to move into a house that is designed to be powered by the Powerboost. ???

Ford F-150 Using Hybrid Generator to power the house Hsweeth (1)
 

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Str8Shooter

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My plan is to run multiple extension cords from the truck into the house during an emergency. As long as I have the Kitchen (refrigerator and microwave) and one other room fully functional (climate, internet, TV, lights, chargers), I'm good to go.

I'll do that as long as I can comfortably stay in the same room as my wife. My backup plan is to disconnect the truck and go to the gun range.
 

ZDadofThree

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I'm sorry if this offends anyone and I guess I just need to start ignoring these threads, as it get's very old, seeing a new person who comes in and tries to "ask permission" to do something that is not safe, then getting upset with the answer and wanting to do it anyway, keeps asking why, and won't accept the answer.

Just do what you want. You may live to be 100, who knows.

BUT.....

If you believe GFCI was invented for a reason, and is required in the code for outdoor outlets and outlets near a water source (i.e. bathroom) for a reason..... to save lifes, as it has and does...

THEN, doing what this post suggests is NOT SAFE, as the reason it "works" and prevents the PB from throwing a GndFault, is because you have DEFEATED the PB GFCI.

Again, maybe you and your family will live forever, and never experience a situation that the PB GFCI could have prevented.

The SAFE way to use the PB (with it's bonded neutral generator) to power anything is with a direct extension cord to the appliance or power tool.

OR if you want or must use (some of) your house circuits, then you must use a transfer switch that switches Neutral.
Would the GFI/GFCI that are in house catch these faults? Totally understand what you are saying, but our main focus would be items that are not plugged in, such as the ceiling fans, furnace blower, etc.
 

BLoflin

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Would the GFI/GFCI that are in house catch these faults? Totally understand what you are saying, but our main focus would be items that are not plugged in, such as the ceiling fans, furnace blower, etc.
Depends on where the fault is.

The GFCI's in the house will only catch faults on the circuits they are on.

When you run from your PB into a breaker in the house and defeat (take out of the circuit) the PB GFCI then faults on that circuit are not protected (except for the 30+Amp breaker it's connected to in your panel, 30Amps and you will be toast or if your not in the circuit then potential for fire hazard as it flows thru whatever to get to GND).
 

Hullguy

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Safety Is highly dependent on the skill, knowledge, and intent of the user. Ovens, chainsaws, and guns aren’t “safe” in the hands of people who don’t know how to use them. In the hands of people that do, we couldn’t live our lives without them.
Ford F-150 Using Hybrid Generator to power the house 1642771536598

This book is written as a minimum set of guidelines for the safety of all those using and installing electricity. Remember, only 80 million of those in our country have guns, everyone of our 330 million Citizens in our country uses electricity!
 

Hullguy

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The issue is that if a fault occurs on the truck side of the break, the path to ground goes thru the trucks neutral path then into the house and to ground at the neutral ground bond. In effect the truck frame can be at a voltage above ground with a fault.
No it doesn’t if you remove the ground wire!
 

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Hullguy

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What makes it unsafe - I’ve seen that response multiple times. What specifically makes it unsafe, what can happen?!
You have eliminated our whole houses grounding system!

I’ve been told by two master electricians and an electrical engineer that it is safe??‍♂
 

Hullguy

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I really have to stop responding to the inane posts on this thread from “experts” that continually offer advice on how to circumvent the bonded neutral on this truck putting people, their families, and their property at risk! I am a Master Electrician, licensed in the State of Massachusetts for 38 years. Many of the jobs I have been on have been fixing electrical engineers mistakes. They do not carry a license as I do that makes me responsible for every electrical job I do for LIFE! A persons opinion as to what is safe does not override the fact that the National Electrical Code is law!
Not one of these hacks, and they are hacks, to get around the the neutral bonding of this truck have been inspected and PASSED by your local wiring inspector.
The Code and Wiring Inspectors are there to protect you and your families from harm from electricity!!!
I have tried to use my knowledge and experience to help people in this group to use this incredible vehicle in the proper manner.
PM me if you have questions on how to do this the correct way, as stated in the NEC. I will not be responding to anymore of these idiotic methods to put people in harm in this forum!
Be safe, do things right! Jim
 

GolfR

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I really have to stop responding to the inane posts on this thread from “experts” that continually offer advice on how to circumvent the bonded neutral on this truck putting people, their families, and their property at risk! I am a Master Electrician, licensed in the State of Massachusetts for 38 years. Many of the jobs I have been on have been fixing electrical engineers mistakes. They do not carry a license as I do that makes me responsible for every electrical job I do for LIFE! A persons opinion as to what is safe does not override the fact that the National Electrical Code is law!
Not one of these hacks, and they are hacks, to get around the the neutral bonding of this truck have been inspected and PASSED by your local wiring inspector.
The Code and Wiring Inspectors are there to protect you and your families from harm from electricity!!!
I have tried to use my knowledge and experience to help people in this group to use this incredible vehicle in the proper manner.
PM me if you have questions on how to do this the correct way, as stated in the NEC. I will not be responding to anymore of these idiotic methods to put people in harm in this forum!
Be safe, do things right! Jim
Jimbo…
Good idea, stay on your high horse and ride off. Since you decided to attempt to insult me directly, I should mention I have two degrees in EE, and passed the master electrician exam after studying for a day so that I could rewire my house and have it all inspected. Saved me thousands of dollars vs paying someone like you. None of it was hard so don’t get too carried away with how impressed you are with yourself. Much of the stuff in the code book is there because electricians don’t actually understand how to read wiring diagrams or do simple math.

You can talk all you want about how everything should be done to code but the reality is that most houses in this country aren’t actually wired to the book. The code has changed over the years so older houses are not up to date. I’m sure you know this because Im sure you get giddy every time you walk into an older house and charge the homeowner thousands of dollars to “bring things up to code because it’s not safe”. The house I grew up in 40 years ago and my parents still own doesn’t have a single GFCI and it was wired by a master electrician. A very high percentage of homes aren’t wired to your rule bible which changes every year because some manufacture lobbied to convince the consortium that something that has been done for 50 years isn’t “safe” anymore so that they can sell $50 breakers instead of $5 ones. Anyone who has had to install arc fault breakers knows exactly what I’m talking about.
 
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BLoflin

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Jimbo…
Good idea, stay on your high horse and ride off. Since you decided to attempt to insult me directly, I should mention I have two degrees in EE, and passed the master electrician exam after studying for a day so that I could rewire my house and have it all inspected. Saved me thousands of dollars vs paying someone like you. None of it was hard so don’t get too carried away with how impressed you are with yourself. Much of the stuff in the code book is there because electricians don’t actually understand how to read wiring diagrams or do simple math.

You can talk all you want about how everything should be done to code but the reality is that most houses in this country aren’t actually wired to the book. The code has changed over the years so older houses are not up to date. I’m sure you know this because Im sure you get giddy every time you walk into an older house and charge the homeowner thousands of dollars to “bring things up to code because it’s not safe”. The house I grew up in 40 years ago and my parents still own doesn’t have a single GFCI and it was wired by a master electrician. A very high percentage of homes aren’t wired to your rule bible which changes every year because some manufacture lobbied NEC to convince the consortium that something that has been done for 50 years isn’t “safe” anymore so that they can sell $50 breakers instead of $5 ones. Anyone who has had to install arc fault breakers knows exactly what I’m talking about.
Not sure why you quoted one of my posts, though it seems Hullguy drew your primary fire.

I too have a MSEE.

Also, if you go far enough back some people tried to live in caves, but were sometimes eaten by bears or froze to death. What does that have to do with anything?

And the accident rate for people travelling by buckboard with solid wheels and axles and no seat belts was higher too when running from outlaws.

If only times were different now, or we somehow acquired new knowledge over time...

If you have 2 degrees in EE and a Master Electrician education, but you don't understand why telling people to cut the ground connection coming from a 30Amp 240V external power source, then I guess we've all said all we can say.
 

Snakebitten

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I live on acreage in the middle of nowhere and there's a natural gas pipeline that crosses the property. It connects a gas depot of some kind on the Texas coast with a power plant in Florida. And of course a lot of things along its path.
Anyways, a fella showed up last year from the pipeline company and informed me that they were going to replace about a 1/2 mile of the pipe in both directions from my property and would stage all the work and equipment from a specific spot because my road was the only access across a creek.

It was an amazing project of a couple of months to watch. They did a great job of accommodating us getting in and out. And they also made some improvements that would have been very costly for me.

So what does this have to do with the subject matter here?
I asked what was so special about this tiny section of pipe that required so much expen$e? Was it bad pipe?

The inspector responded "nothing is wrong with this section of pipe. But the codes changed and any piece of pipe that was within a certain distance of a dwelling had to meet a new spec. So my house that I built 15 years ago suddenly rendered a pipe that was 400' away and 26' deep below the surface as suddenly "dangerous".

I think there's some parallels here.

I'm not advocating peril or danger for anyone, but I'm not skeardy of my Powerboost. Everything is going to be OK. :)

Having said that, I do have it simpler than most. I'm a full-time RV guy and for everything else I have a couple of really expensive heavy gauge extension chords in the bed toolbox. Anyone around me that needs electricity, my generator will travel.
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