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Updated Ford Intelligent Backup Power page (no longer) details 320-Amp Home Service o_O

sotek2345

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400A/ 320A just seems like absolute overkills. Without an EVSE, our max draw is around 60A (this assumes Pool pump on high, all A/Cs (window)on max, all appliances on, dryer on, all lights on etc. (We use natural gas for heat / hot water / cooking so minimal electrical draw for those). Adding the 80A EVSE would push me to ~140A absolutely max (not sustained). Even had an electrician come out and verify that I wouldn't need a service upgrade (from 150A) to run the Lightning EVSE circuit. Why would I need to go to a 400A service, just to support back up power - that makes no sense!

Edit: still waiting for more information, but if this is true, I will just split the 100A circuit I ran to support two 50A EVSEs and forgo the backup power - but that would be a big loss for us. It was a major reason to go for the Lightning - but I can't see spending tens of thousands for an unneeded service upgrade.
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metroshot

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400A/ 320A just seems like absolute overkills. Without an EVSE, our max draw is around 60A (this assumes Pool pump on high, all A/Cs (window)on max, all appliances on, dryer on, all lights on etc. (We use natural gas for heat / hot water / cooking so minimal electrical draw for those). Adding the 80A EVSE would push me to ~140A absolutely max (not sustained). Even had an electrician come out and verify that I wouldn't need a service upgrade (from 150A) to run the Lightning EVSE circuit. Why would I need to go to a 400A service, just to support back up power - that makes no sense!

Edit: still waiting for more information, but if this is true, I will just split the 100A circuit I ran to support two 50A EVSEs and forgo the backup power - but that would be a big loss for us. It was a major reason to go for the Lightning - but I can't see spending tens of thousands for an unneeded service upgrade.
Agreed!

What an upsell!

Maybe for those that have multiple EV vehicles and use 100% electricity for everything in the huge house would need such a massive upgrade.

We run most appliances on natural gas and the only power draw is our A/C which isn't run during the night which is when our EV would charge.

Our 200A service according to our electrician is more than enough to run a 80A charger along with our current PHEV L2 charger at 40A.
 

adoublee

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400A/ 320A just seems like absolute overkills. Without an EVSE, our max draw is around 60A (this assumes Pool pump on high, all A/Cs (window)on max, all appliances on, dryer on, all lights on etc. (We use natural gas for heat / hot water / cooking so minimal electrical draw for those). Adding the 80A EVSE would push me to ~140A absolutely max (not sustained). Even had an electrician come out and verify that I wouldn't need a service upgrade (from 150A) to run the Lightning EVSE circuit. Why would I need to go to a 400A service, just to support back up power - that makes no sense!

Edit: still waiting for more information, but if this is true, I will just split the 100A circuit I ran to support two 50A EVSEs and forgo the backup power - but that would be a big loss for us. It was a major reason to go for the Lightning - but I can't see spending tens of thousands for an unneeded service upgrade.
The issue is really with the service panel, not the entire service (wiring from utility transformer and meter). If you are only going to charge the Lightning, there is no issue in your case. When you have multiple sources of current feeding a panel (Lightning and/or solar feeding home and grid at the same time as utility), there needs to be protection from melting the bus. Keep in mind that if you add up all the load breakers in your panel, they add up to more than the amps of your main breaker. Right now the main breaker limits the current that will flow inside the panel, but if there are more power sources connected there is nothing to sufficiently limit the flow inside the panel itself.
 

Maquis

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The issue is really with the service panel, not the entire service (wiring from utility transformer and meter). If you are only going to charge the Lightning, there is no issue in your case. When you have multiple sources of current feeding a panel (Lightning and/or solar feeding home and grid at the same time as utility), there needs to be protection from melting the bus. Keep in mind that if you add up all the load breakers in your panel, they add up to more than the amps of your main breaker. Right now the main breaker limits the current that will flow inside the panel, but if there are more power sources connected there is nothing to sufficiently limit the flow inside the panel itself.
The Lightning is for backup power. It only supplies power when you lose the utility. There are no multiple sources feed the panel at any given moment.
 

adoublee

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The Lightning is for backup power. It only supplies power when you lose the utility. There are no multiple sources feed the panel at any given moment.
Correct, but that is the only reason for a 320A service panel they have described. They probably want to do installation capable of V2G for if/when that is activated. Can't know anything for sure if they won't publish documentation though.
 

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Sklith

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The Lightning is for backup power. It only supplies power when you lose the utility. There are no multiple sources feed the panel at any given moment.
Exactly. I think Ford simply copy-pasted Sunrun's requirements if a home has solar.
 

kny

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The issue is really with the service panel, not the entire service (wiring from utility transformer and meter). If you are only going to charge the Lightning, there is no issue in your case. When you have multiple sources of current feeding a panel (Lightning and/or solar feeding home and grid at the same time as utility), there needs to be protection from melting the bus. Keep in mind that if you add up all the load breakers in your panel, they add up to more than the amps of your main breaker. Right now the main breaker limits the current that will flow inside the panel, but if there are more power sources connected there is nothing to sufficiently limit the flow inside the panel itself.
If, as appears to be the case, the issue is the 120% rule to prevent potential overloading of the busbar from multiple power sources, instead of a 100amp breaker in a 400amp rated busbar why not simply perform a tap with a 100amp fused disconnect acting as OCPD and bypass the busbar entirely rather than require a ridiculously expensive 400amp panel with 400amp rated busbar? Lineside taps are very common approach for solar installations that require too large of a backfed breaker to meet the 120% rule, and a tap with fused OCPD is far more practical than an entire service panel upgrade/replacement. Exact same principle here, but would be required in all cases due to 100amp breaker requirement, whereas only needed for large solar installations where large backfed breaker fails 120% rule.
 

adoublee

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If, as appears to be the case, the issue is the 120% rule to prevent potential overloading of the busbar from multiple power sources, instead of a 100amp breaker in a 400amp rated busbar why not simply perform a tap with a 100amp fused disconnect acting as OCPD and bypass the busbar entirely rather than require a ridiculously expensive 400amp panel with 400amp rated busbar? Lineside taps are very common approach for solar installations that require too large of a backfed breaker to meet the 120% rule, and a tap with fused OCPD is far more practical than an entire service panel upgrade/replacement. Exact same principle here, but would be required in all cases due to 100amp breaker requirement, whereas only needed for large solar installations where large backfed breaker fails 120% rule.
This is an option for grid-interactive solar installations and could be a solution for charging + future V2G implementation, if inspector will allow as an additional electrical service. However, it makes back-up of the loads in the panel more challenging depending on where/how the grid isolation point gets installed. The grid isolation device might have a 100A fused or breaker output for the charger built in, so details of that are still important to get.
 

rdr854

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What if you just want to charge the Lightning ER with the 80 amp charger and do not want to power the house in a power failure? Do I still need 320 amp service? I would think that 200 amps should be sufficient. What am I missing?
 
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rtw819

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What if you just want to charge the Lightning ER with the 80 amp charger and do not want to power the house in a power failure? Do I still need 320 amp service? I would think that 200 amps should be sufficient. What am I missing?
The 320 amp requirement (for what it is) only appears to apply to the Intelligent Backup Power with Home Integration configuration.

So that said, if you're only ever planning on charging (and no home backup), as long as you have sufficient available (pending home load analysis) capacity and physical room in your 200 amp panel to add the necessary 100 amp breaker and wiring for the Pro charger, and assuming you don't ever have all of your large electric/appliance home loads running at once totaling over the 200 amp mains breaker (e.g. truck charger, electric dryer, electric furnace, heat pump/HVAC/compressor, pool heater and pump, electric hot tub and sauna, welder, etc.) you ought to be good.

Disclaimer: Each installation and home power situation is different. Consult a qualified electrician for verification and for proper installation of your 80 amp Ford Charge Station Pro. :)
 

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rdr854

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The 320 amp requirement (for what it is) only appears to apply to the Intelligent Backup Power with Home Integration configuration.

So that said, if you're only ever planning on charging (and no home backup), as long as you have sufficient available (pending home load analysis) capacity and physical room in your 200 amp panel to add the necessary 100 amp breaker and wiring for the Pro charger, and assuming you don't ever have all of your large electric/appliance home loads running at once totaling over the 200 amp mains breaker (e.g. truck charger, electric dryer, electric furnace, heat pump/HVAC/compressor, pool heater and pump, electric hot tub and sauna, welder, etc.) you ought to be good.

Disclaimer: Each installation and home power situation is different. Consult a qualified electrician for verification and for proper installation of your 80 amp Ford Charge Station Pro. :)
We are fortunate that our house has natural gas dryer, furnace and cooking. The preliminary load calc. was just under the 200 amp ceiling - assuming the required 20% buffer for the 100 amp circuit for the charger.
 

hturnerfamily

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I think the more we move toward a mostly EV world, this 'upgrade' of the home's electrical wiring and panels will become a higher priority, and things like 400amp service will become more the 'norm', especially for newer larger homes. Back in the day, the same conversation started to unfold when everyone wanted to get away from propane and go 'all electric', with HVAC Heatpumps, electric water heaters, electric clothes dryers, and the like - not to even mention the more recent advent of all of the other 'electronics' in our home that now require constant, or overnight, charging, like cell phones, laptops, and the addition of Internet modems, SATELLITE and home media equipment. Even in the kitchen, we are adding more and more 'electric' appliances that no home chef can go without, like the 'air fyer' phenomenon, and not to even mention electric fireplaces, with heat. Fun.
 

Nick Gerteis

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I think the more we move toward a mostly EV world, this 'upgrade' of the home's electrical wiring and panels will become a higher priority, and things like 400amp service will become more the 'norm', especially for newer larger homes. Back in the day, the same conversation started to unfold when everyone wanted to get away from propane and go 'all electric', with HVAC Heatpumps, electric water heaters, electric clothes dryers, and the like - not to even mention the more recent advent of all of the other 'electronics' in our home that now require constant, or overnight, charging, like cell phones, laptops, and the addition of Internet modems, SATELLITE and home media equipment. Even in the kitchen, we are adding more and more 'electric' appliances that no home chef can go without, like the 'air fyer' phenomenon, and not to even mention electric fireplaces, with heat. Fun.
Correct observations, only thing that slightly countered that was going from “regular “ lightbulbs to LEDs.
 

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"80 amp charger and do not want to power the house "

I'd sell the charger unless you have some upgrade later or really need the 80A charge rate for some reason. That is a lot of power for an EV.

Yes, you should be not only able to use that charger alone, you should be able to control it's maximum charge rate.
 

adoublee

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"80 amp charger and do not want to power the house "

I'd sell the charger unless you have some upgrade later or really need the 80A charge rate for some reason. That is a lot of power for an EV.

Yes, you should be not only able to use that charger alone, you should be able to control it's maximum charge rate.
If the 80A charger comes with a CCS connector, do people think a J1772 Tesla adapter is going to work on the "J1772 half" of the end? If not, I'm not sure there is going to be a strong market for selling these devices to all but those with the largest batteries.

Also, ER charging time from 15% on 80A is still 8 hours, so that power level may be highly desirable for those who have a heavy daily utilization cycle. 15-16 hours on a 40A charger could be a painful wait after a full day of driving or towing.
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