Some stats on the PowerBoost hybrid system

[BCP28]

Hmm, wonder if DISCHARGELIM or the variable/s that drive it are programable with enough digging..

This is a power draw limit, not an SOC limit and is likely a physical limitation of the battery. If the battery is 1500Wh, with a nominal voltage of 280V... that means it only has a ~5.3 Ah capacity. At 35,000W (35kW) you're already charging/discharging at ~125A or at about 25C rate, which in itself is impressive (also probably why SOC bandwidth is limited; opening that up likely would greatly reduce lifespan, possible to as little as 1000 charge/discharge cycles).

For comparison, most off-the-shelf LFP batteries you might use for RV/Marine/Solar are typically limited to the 1C rate... so this battery is ~25x more capable in terms of energy throughput (apples and oranges comparing an off-the-shelf LFP vs an automotive NCM battery, but puts some perspective on it).

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[imnuts]

From my drive home tonight, I noticed more interesting behavior. It seems that the system will not charge the battery when the engine is under load. As I was going up a hill on the highway, the battery charger got to 42.75% and stopped until I got close to the crest, then it started going up. It continues to charge to somewhere around 50-52% and stopped charging. Similar thing happened later, but when I got to a gentle incline, it would charge.

There must be something where if engine load is greater than a certain percentage, it's ICE+EV until the battery is "depleted" and then it is ICE only with no charging. Under that load threshold, it will use the engine to charge the battery.

 

[daemonic3]

I’ve actually seen this behavior happening in the instantaneous fuel economy screen when on the highway. My truck seems to adjust charging rate to keep the fuel economy at 23-25. As I let off the throttle, it’ll maintain the 23-25mpg by increasing the charge rate. Conversely, as you climb a hill, it’ll decrease the charge rate or use the electric motor to add torque to still keep the fuel economy at 23-25 (depending on steepness of hill obviously).

When descending longer hills, I can watch it maintain that 23-25mpg for some time, and then you can tell when it stops charging and decides to maximize the efficiency of the ICE engine, the fuel economy will shoot up to max or closer, and then using the throttle appears to cause a fuel economy response you’d expect from a full gas 3.5

Ha! I tried to watch for this same behavior using a different method. On a flat road I wanted to cruise at ~51mph in 10th gear while depleting the battery. My assumption was that once depleted the ICE would kick on with extra generator load, then I should see the instantaneous Fuel Efficiency bar jump up once charged. The RPMs are usually 1.3kRPM at 51mph but I expected 2 resistances.

It turns out there is just too much noise in the meter (it doesn't stay steady enough) to really see the jump that you did. What I need are a battery % bar, EV coach and MPG bar in the cluster with the RPM gauge to really understand how my baby is working.

From my drive home tonight, I noticed more interesting behavior. It seems that the system will not charge the battery when the engine is under load. As I was going up a hill on the highway, the battery charger got to 42.75% and stopped until I got close to the crest, then it started going up. It continues to charge to somewhere around 50-52% and stopped charging. Similar thing happened later, but when I got to a gentle incline, it would charge.

There must be something where if engine load is greater than a certain percentage, it's ICE+EV until the battery is "depleted" and then it is ICE only with no charging. Under that load threshold, it will use the engine to charge the battery.

Love it! Very cool observation.

 

[Oxford_Powerboost]

Does FORScan show a PID for gallons per hour of fuel? I’m really curious to see how the different stages of charging affect fuel consumption, particularly at idle. (Like eco idle vs normal idle). This would give a better idea of possible idle time on a full tank which I’ve always been curious about

 

[toyko joe]

I'm in. I guess I need to get forScan OBDII so I can see all this and begin troubleshooting my Hybrid system myself.

 

[AutonomousHybridF150]

Hello all. Now that I finally have my PB back. I had a chance to pull some stats from forscan that I found interesting. Here are some stats in no particular order.

• The battery appears to be ~277v. I've seen it as high as 290. And as low as 260 something.
• The truck seems to try to keep the battery state of charge around 50%. I've gotten mine as high as 58% on a long stop. And as low as ~40%.
• The battery seems to do ~130 amps max both in and out.
• The truck has sensors for battery coolant temp. So it appears to be an actively cooled battery.
• The battery only ever goes +/- a few percent it seems. Which makes sense. If they filled the battery, or drained it constantly it would be harder on the battery.
• The truck has a "discharge limit" PID. Which appears to be the maximum allowed power the hybrid system can use at that time. It's almost always 35KW. As the battery SOC sags. So does it. But I've not yet seen it less then 34kw. (1KW lost)
• If I just let the truck idle, It'll start and run the engine when the battery reaches 40% SOC. And it turns off when the battery reaches ~50% SOC (49% in my case). It charged at about 45amps just idling.

Stuff about the ev coach

• Despite heavy breaking seeming to show that you stop charging the battery. You do not. As soon as you cross the threshold into "white" where the text turns white and is no longer green. You're still doing ~129 amps into the HV battery. But that's the max.
• Despite the truck being in "hybrid" mode with the engine running, If you hit the throttle. It's using the battery and hybrid system.
• Simply letting off the throttle and coasting DOES charge the battery. ~20 amps in my testing.

I don't know if anyone as talked about this here before. I just got my truck back and finally got some time to tinker and see how it works. I'll post some screenshots later when I'm home. Happy to investigate anything else if anyone is curious.

Just in case anyone here is interested, I have 33,000 miles on my PB, and all the stats (voltages, amps, and SOC levels of 40% to 68%) appear exactly the same on my FORScan.

I was only able to reach 68% SOC when in Sport or Trailer Tow mode.

 

[blkZ28spt]

Right. Stop the "warranty" fear and just let the owner of the vehicle decide what they want to do … find a way in the law to let people just buy something and use it rather than forever being limited by fear of litigious ambulance chasing lawyers suing for "one billion dollars!" because a few numbskulls have the misfortune of never receiving the education to be able to comprehend the world around them.
Imagine if there was "truth on the touchscreen" … "check this box if you want to improve mpg from 24 to 30 mpg, saving $1000 every few months till the battery burns up like that thing in Tony Stark's chest and it costs $2000 to replace." Or something simple and real world like "check this box if you want to be able to adjust battery and motor performance for yourself … you might not improve anything and the battery will probably age faster, but up to you, Hondo."

Petition your elected representatives to get rid of the federally required 8 year 100k mile warranty...which is itself possibly the only reason we have these hybrids at this point to begin with

 

[F-150 Prius]

Petition your elected representatives to get rid of the federally required 8 year 100k mile warranty...which is itself possibly the only reason we have these hybrids at this point to begin with

If I ever "petition an elected representative" you better put me on suicide watch because I will clearly have lost the will to live … : )

 

[DT444T]

I’ve actually seen this behavior happening in the instantaneous fuel economy screen when on the highway. My truck seems to adjust charging rate to keep the fuel economy at 23-25. As I let off the throttle, it’ll maintain the 23-25mpg by increasing the charge rate. Conversely, as you climb a hill, it’ll decrease the charge rate or use the electric motor to add torque to still keep the fuel economy at 23-25 (depending on steepness of hill obviously).

When descending longer hills, I can watch it maintain that 23-25mpg for some time, and then you can tell when it stops charging and decides to maximize the efficiency of the ICE engine, the fuel economy will shoot up to max or closer, and then using the throttle appears to cause a fuel economy response you’d expect from a full gas 3.5

I noticed this, too! It was wild to see like "Hey! Give me my MPG reward for going downhill!" But then going up the next hill the MPG sits right in that lower-mid 20 range. The truck is ABSOLUTELY tuned to try its damnedest to get that 24mpg number. And it does a decent job, IME.

 

[BRDVPRA]

This is the best post I have seen in awhile! Great info on how the truck works! So you know tuners will be targeting getting that battery usage up at some point.

 

[Buffalotrip]

I would like to see some battery stats when just using the truck as a generator
And also at two different Watts 1700 Watts and at least 3000 Watts.

 

[Wood]

Hi all, first time poster. Just got my PB and at a loss as to how the electrical system works. This seemed like the best topic since you guys are actually talking stats. I looked at the Mod guide that was posted and that did not really help, owners manual was also pretty useless. Not quite to the end of the internet yet, but no good info yet.

I do a lot of camping so I am mainly interested in how much I can pull from the Pro Power system WITHOUT the ICE starting. Initial indications are, not that much. In my last F-150 I rigged up an Optima deep cycle battery and inverter and could run my little fridge 24 hours before the battery needed to be charged. I was hoping to be able to use this the same way. However it seems the system is configured to operate with the engine running for the preponderance of the time.

I am going to completely show my ignorance, but does anyone know...

1. The hybrid battery rating as far as amp/hr or volts available to figure out how long an appliance will run just on battery.

2. Is it possible to drain the main 12v start battery if you plug something into the interior "A" outlets without the generator on? Seems others started the truck without the battery even connected so I am confused what it actually does and how not to drain it and leave myself stuck in the middle of nowhere.

3. Any way to charge battery or run inverter via solar panels? (pretty sure answer is no to that one).

Any good sources of information would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[blkZ28spt]

If I ever "petition an elected representative" you better put me on suicide watch because I will clearly have lost the will to live … : )

Precisely.

It's not going to happen. Nor do you probably want it to, without that hybrid powertrain warranty guarantee, the market wouldn't even be emerging the way it has

 

[daemonic3]

Hi all, first time poster. Just got my PB and at a loss as to how the electrical system works. This seemed like the best topic since you guys are actually talking stats. I looked at the Mod guide that was posted and that did not really help, owners manual was also pretty useless. Not quite to the end of the internet yet, but no good info yet.

I do a lot of camping so I am mainly interested in how much I can pull from the Pro Power system WITHOUT the ICE starting. Initial indications are, not that much. In my last F-150 I rigged up an Optima deep cycle battery and inverter and could run my little fridge 24 hours before the battery needed to be charged. I was hoping to be able to use this the same way. However it seems the system is configured to operate with the engine running for the preponderance of the time.

I am going to completely show my ignorance, but does anyone know...

1. The hybrid battery rating as far as amp/hr or volts available to figure out how long an appliance will run just on battery.

2. Is it possible to drain the main 12v start battery if you plug something into the interior "A" outlets without the generator on? Seems others started the truck without the battery even connected so I am confused what it actually does and how not to drain it and leave myself stuck in the middle of nowhere.

3. Any way to charge battery or run inverter via solar panels? (pretty sure answer is no to that one).

Any good sources of information would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I don't know #2 or #3. But regarding #1:

Initially before we all had our trucks the specs were the hybrid battery was 1.5kWh, so in theory you could run your trailer at 1.5kW for 1hr before the ICE kicked on. During actual usage a lot of us noticed that even if only drawing like 500W, the engine definitely would kick on in less than 1hr let alone 3 hrs.

Now that we've learned more, it seems this is due to the watermarks built into the trucks algorithm. Looks like the low watermark is ~40% and upper (for engine charging) is ~60%. So really, assuming they linearized the battery IV curve perfectly from 0 to 100%, we only get to use 1/5 of the battery rating in complete silence. So 300Wh give or take.

Next time I use propower I'm definitely firing up my Torque app to watch the Batt% and average Propower draw. Will be very interesting!

 

[DT444T]

This is the best post I have seen in awhile! Great info on how the truck works! So you know tuners will be targeting getting that battery usage up at some point.

I don't know if there's really that much advantage to draining the battery down harder. In my experience I spend more time charging it while driving than I do with regen-braking. Meaning I'm just burning gas to get it back up to "full." I never fully understood the necessity for a "plug-in" hybrid but man do I wish I could plug my truck in to top off the battery.

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