Administrator

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 22, 2019
Messages
632
Reaction score
1,074
Location
Purple State
Vehicles
F-150
Occupation
Admin
Ford, Rivian cancel plans to jointly develop an EV
Ford expects to become the nation's second-biggest EV producer in two years, and it no longer thinks it needs Rivian's help to do that.


https://www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/ford-rivian-cancel-plans-jointly-develop-ev

November 19, 2021

DETROIT — After going public this month, electric-vehicle startup Rivian Automotive is worth almost 50 percent more than one of its early big investors: Ford Motor Co.

But Ford believes it can soon add more value for shareholders than at any point in the past century with a plan to become the nation's second-biggest producer of EVs in two years. And Ford no longer thinks it needs Rivian's help to get there.

The two companies have scrapped plans to jointly develop an EV, Ford CEO Jim Farley told Automotive News. Ford already had canceled a planned Lincoln collaboration at the start of the coronavirus pandemic but still intended to work with Rivian on a different vehicle until recently.

"Right now, we have growing confidence in our ability to win in the electric space," Farley said in an interview Thursday. "When you compare today with when we originally made that investment, so much has changed: about our ability, about the brand's direction in both cases, and now it's more certain to us what we have to do. We want to invest in Rivian — we love their future as a company — but at this point we're going to develop our own vehicles."

Ford is so confident in its abilities that it's doubling its planned EV production capacity to 600,000 globally by the end of 2023, Farley said. The company aims to become the largest U.S. EV maker after Tesla in the same time frame, Farley said, and to challenge Tesla's leadership after planned EV campuses in Tennessee and Kentucky come online several years later.

The electric push is part of a broader remake of the 118-year-old automaker that involves modernizing how it sells vehicles, reconfiguring pieces of its supply chain and expanding into software services that will generate recurring revenue.

"As a leader of Ford I get really excited, because there hasn't been a chance to transform Ford and create this much value since we scaled the Model T," Farley said. "The chance to emerge out of this transition to a digital product with a much higher valuation is now much clearer."

Rivian relationship
Farley admitted he has had "mixed emotions" watching Tesla, Rivian and Lucid surpass Ford's valuation, though he said Rivian is unique because Ford has a rooting interest in its success. Ford invested $500 million as part of the companies' 2019 agreement — later increasing the amount to $1.2 billion — and until recently had a seat on Rivian's board.

Through Rivian's Nov. 10 public stock offering, the value of Ford's stake has grown tenfold.

"Rivian's a special case for us; it's kind of like a brother or a sister, since we're an investor," Farley said. "We know [CEO RJ Scaringe] and the company really well."

Farley said the companies' relationship has not soured, calling it "some of the best cooperation we've had with another company."

Rivian, in a statement, said the companies "mutually decided to focus on our own projects and deliveries" as demand for each of their EVs has grown. "Our relationship with Ford is an important part of our journey," Rivian said, "and Ford remains an investor and ally on our shared path to an electrified future."

One factor Farley cited in the decision is the complexity that would be required to marry another company's electric architecture with embedded software developed in-house by Ford.

"We have slightly different business models," he said. "We like what they're doing, but we're going to go our separate ways."

More batteries needed
Ford's EV ambitions hinge around battery capacity, another area in which it recently changed course — pivoting from sourcing batteries from suppliers to making them in-house.

The automaker in September announced plans for three new battery plants that would raise its U.S. production capacity to roughly 129 gigawatt hours annually. Farley said that's still not enough and Ford will need additional plants.

"Already we need more than we planned," he said. "I'm not going to give you a number, but it's very clear we'll have to move soon, and it will be more."

Farley said Ford can squelch Wall Street skepticism of traditional automakers' ability to compete in the EV space with newer entrants such as Tesla or Rivian by reaching its ambitious production goals in the next 24 months.

"We're different from these other companies in that we have three hits on our hands," Farley said, referring to the Mustang Mach-E crossover, E-Transit van and upcoming F-150 Lightning pickup. "We need to be No. 2 in the U.S. in electric sales, and we need to make money on those products. If we do those two things, Ford will be in a different situation, and I believe the narrative will be different."

Supply chain changes
As Ford builds more electric and connected vehicles, Farley said it will need to rethink its supply chain. It's getting practice at that as a result of the semiconductor shortage.
Advertisement

 

F150ROD

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 14, 2021
Messages
520
Reaction score
428
Location
SoCal
Vehicles
F150 XLT on Order/Mazda Roadster Club/Model 3
Occupation
U.S. Navy Retired/Student
I think this might be a mistake considering Rivian is working on their own charging network like Teslas. But then again, I dont know anything.
 

Brian Head Yankee

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2021
Messages
280
Reaction score
336
Location
Brian Head, UT
Vehicles
Bronco Sport, Chevy Colorado 4x4
Rivian has a tough road ahead. Ford and GM will likely crush them in production within a year or two.
 

jefro

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2021
Messages
139
Reaction score
45
Location
Texas
Vehicles
F150, Corvette, Bolt EV,
Rivian is putting chargers in areas like parks and in the middle of nowhere to charge their "adventure" truck. Totally different market than the F150 I'd think.

Rivian website now shows the van and chargers for their planned rollout.

I asked Amazon if they could sell me one of their vans so i could turn it into an RV.

The beauty of F150 is the power out ability.
 

newdeal99

Well-known member
First Name
Tom
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
89
Reaction score
55
Location
Canada
Vehicles
2021 F150 on order
The timing is problematic for Rivian. They are already so far behind and the company is now worth so much without having any sales and according to Elon the hardest part (figuring out mass production) still ahead of them. Buying part of Rivian was a hedge by Ford in case they got beat to market on an electric pickup. The Lightning is now first to market as Rivian isn't selling anything and no word on cyber truck yet (plus questionable desirability for the main pickup demographic). Ford needs to focus on. Arguably Ford is worth more to Rivian than Rivian is to Ford. They have nothing, Ford has a vehicle about to ship, they have no production and Ford has been mass producing cars for a century. Ford has a brand, Rivian doesn't yet and may never because Tesla is a brand juggernaut.
 

vandy1981

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
178
Reaction score
192
Location
Tennessee
Vehicles
2019 Jaguar I-Pace, 2019 Ram 1500
Ford stands to make a lot of money on their Rivian investment. Maybe it can be put towards development of more Ford EVs.
 

RonTCat

Active member
First Name
Ron
Joined
Jun 30, 2021
Messages
34
Reaction score
35
Location
USA
Vehicles
Mach-E
Ford got what it wanted from Rivian: 1) a giant paycheck from their IPO, 2) a look at their skateboard for use in a shared Rivian/Ford vehicle platform.

The two companies are still very friendly. Things only dissolved because Rivian's vehicle development process is painfully slow. I know everyone thinks "hey, Rivian and Tesla are startups and they move fast", but no, they really don't. Ford has EV ambitions, and is not going to wait on Rivian.
 

GABAR

Well-known member
First Name
P
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
481
Reaction score
282
Location
GA
Vehicles
2016 F150
I’m sure down the road, the two companies will work together on various projects.

Ford didn’t invest millions of dollars in Rivian for nothing.
 

Sgt Beavis

Well-known member
First Name
Rick
Joined
May 20, 2021
Messages
214
Reaction score
190
Location
Colorado
Vehicles
2021 Wrangler Rubicon and 2018 Mini Cooper S Count
Occupation
overpaid computer nerd.
Here’s the way I see this.
1. Ford found unexpected success in the MME and F150 Lightning pre-orders. They finally realized they can do this themselves.
2. Ford is potentially gaining $15billion from it’s relatively small investment in Rivian. That’s a lot of money for battery and BEV factories.
3. Rivian is going to be very busy just getting its two production lines up to capacity. They won’t have any spare capacity for several years. That’s not going to fit well with Fords BEV plans.

IMO, Ford realizes they don’t need Rivian and Rivian has grown enough that they can get by without Ford. It was mutually beneficial for them originally and now it simply works better for them to go their own ways. Ford gets billions and Rivian is off to a solid start due to Ford’s initial investment and the manufacturing consulting that Ford gave them. There is no reason to continue working together and Ford will divest when it makes the most sense.
 

Erik

Active member
First Name
Erik
Joined
Sep 21, 2021
Messages
33
Reaction score
42
Location
CA
Vehicles
VW, Fiat
I think this might be a mistake considering Rivian is working on their own charging network like Teslas. But then again, I dont know anything.
Rivian will use CCS plugs. Ford will probably get access and add them to Ford pass, just like EA and EVGO chargers. With the EV charger subsidies in the infrastructure bill, the number of public CCS fast chargers from all networks will grow and private networks won’t have as much competitive advantage anymore.
 

rodhx

Member
First Name
Rod
Joined
Jun 25, 2021
Messages
10
Reaction score
5
Location
Alabama
Vehicles
21 Mach E 4x, 03 IS300, 06 Ridgeline
I think this might be a mistake considering Rivian is working on their own charging network like Teslas. But then again, I dont know anything.
For the most part Rivian is doing the same thing Ford and others are doing and simply calling existing third party charging networks by a new name. Sure, Rivian will be putting some in more remote areas, but it you look at the Rivian charging map it is obviously predominantly the Electrify America stations.
 

PungoteagueDave

Well-known member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
326
Reaction score
391
Location
33435
Vehicles
Tesla MX, Porsche C4S, Ford F-350 KR, Ford F-150 K
Occupation
retired
Rivian's design was eclipsed by the Lightning. The frunk alone knocks the Rivian's away - and the generator options, towing capacity, range are all superior at a better price point. The Lightning has a more conventional design, but that's an advantage in my view. And you can actually get one. In my opinion Rivian was made pointless with the Lightning announcement.
 

sotek2345

Well-known member
First Name
Tom
Joined
Jun 7, 2021
Messages
608
Reaction score
578
Location
Upstate NY
Vehicles
2016 F150 Screw 2.7l, 2019 Mustang GT350
Rivian's design was eclipsed by the Lightning. The frunk alone knocks the Rivian's away - and the generator options, towing capacity, range are all superior at a better price point. The Lightning has a more conventional design, but that's an advantage in my view. And you can actually get one. In my opinion Rivian was made pointless with the Lightning announcement.
Agree with everything except the "you can actually get one" Given that Ford just revealed that commercial reservations were not counted in their "almost 200k reserverations" number, they may not be making enough Gen 1 Lightnings to cover existing reservations. If you were starting today - you might have better luck getting a Rivian.
 

techguydave

Well-known member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Oct 16, 2021
Messages
155
Reaction score
136
Location
Northeast Ohio
Vehicles
None
Occupation
IT
In my opinion, Rivian and the Lightning aren't going after the same market so I'm not sure it makes sense to keep comparing the two. Rivian has been very outspoken about being an adventure brand, likely targeting the younger crowd. Just look at where they're installing their chargers and how they showcase the vehicle in marketing materials and at events.

There's room for both, they'll be fine on their own. The Silverado will be the first actual competitor to the Lightning.
 

Sgt Beavis

Well-known member
First Name
Rick
Joined
May 20, 2021
Messages
214
Reaction score
190
Location
Colorado
Vehicles
2021 Wrangler Rubicon and 2018 Mini Cooper S Count
Occupation
overpaid computer nerd.
Rivian will use CCS plugs. Ford will probably get access and add them to Ford pass, just like EA and EVGO chargers. With the EV charger subsidies in the infrastructure bill, the number of public CCS fast chargers from all networks will grow and private networks won’t have as much competitive advantage anymore.
Agreed. Also, Rivian has to make chargers accessible to everyone in order to get access to the new EV charger subsidies.

Rivian's design was eclipsed by the Lightning. The frunk alone knocks the Rivian's away - and the generator options, towing capacity, range are all superior at a better price point. The Lightning has a more conventional design, but that's an advantage in my view. And you can actually get one. In my opinion Rivian was made pointless with the Lightning announcement.
Not really. You’re definitely right about the Frunk but Rivian has stated that generator options are coming through a software update. The Rivian has a higher towing capacity than the Lightning. It also has a higher stated range. The R1T’s base model is EPA rated at 310miles. The longer range version is expected to have over 400 miles of range. Of course we don’t yet know what the Lightning‘s range will actually be, but Ford is stating 300+. I’m only going with that for now.

The real advantage for the Lightning is pricing (for Pro and XLT models) and usability as a truck. I like the R1T but that bed is laughably small. Ford really nailed it when it comes to the Frunk. Also, the F150 cab has a flat floor under the passenger seats, the Rivian does not. The Rivian’s big advantage is that gear tunnel. At first I thought of it as a gimmick, but the more I’ve looked at it, the more I realize how damn useful it is. The Rivian is a real off roader as well. I wouldn’t take a Lightning on many of the trails I frequent in Colorado. I’m sure Ford will release a more off road oriented variant at some point but for now Rivian owns that spot. The Rivian also has A LOT more HP, Torque, Air Suspension, retractable tonneau cover, better interior IMO, etc., etc.,..

In my opinion, Rivian and the Lightning aren't going after the same market so I'm not sure it makes sense to keep comparing the two. Rivian has been very outspoken about being an adventure brand, likely targeting the younger crowd. Just look at where they're installing their chargers and how they showcase the vehicle in marketing materials and at events.

There's room for both, they'll be fine on their own. The Silverado will be the first actual competitor to the Lightning.
I agree with you, but here we are. 😂
 
Advertisement

 
Advertisement
Top