RAS w/scales, smart hitch

[Roscopcoletrain]

Hi, new to the forum. Have a 22 screw 3.5 HDPP on order. I'm wondering if the RAS affects the new smart scale and smart hitch?

I have a set on my 15 Sierra I plan to swap over with new brackets.

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[UGADawg96]

I'm interested in your experience once you get your truck.

Has anyone else here installed the Roadmaster Active Suspension (RAS) on their 2021/2022 with onboard scales ?

 

[gendibal]

Following

 

[Snakebitten]

I have a 2022 with CCD and Scales.
I ordered RAS in Standard duty in an attempt to address my biggest complaint/disappointment with Ford's multiple damping maps for CCD.

Unlike the Raptor, where Ford allows the driver to choose a damping "mode" independently from the SDM (Selectable Driver Mode), on the Powerboost the two are combined. Which would be completely OK with me if Ford also didn't nix EV cruising in SDM Sport, because I would be thrilled to just use Sport Mode for both the preferred transmission shift strategy as well as the more aggressive CCD damping strategy associated.

So no matter which direction I go with the amazing combination of technology and features, Ford dictates what THEY think I should desire rather than giving me my own choices.

So, I will be able to address the question regarding RAS and onboard scales soon enough.

Here's what I predict though.....
RAS is reported to lift an empty truck anywhere between 1/2-1 1/2 inches. I'm pretty sure that will trigger a VDM fault, which requires a recalibration. No big deal because the routine is available in FDRS.

Once that is accomplished, I suspect that the oem algorithm will be less accurate because the truck will drop less height per pound, but that would be fairly simple to work with once I measure the % of the deviation that RAS introduces. For example, I can throw a known amount of weight in the bed of the truck and then compare what the Onboard Scales "thinks" the weight is. I assume the onboard scales will be optimistic by some %?
So after a few tests I should know what % to use in correcting Onboard Scales.

What I really am desiring to accomplish is using RAS as an analog approach to raise the baseline on Ford's conservative damping in Normal mode. If I get lucky, I will get empty truck handling in SDM Normal that is close to what I currently get with empty truck SDM Sport, as far as CCD suspension is concerned.

Oh how I wish Ford would allow EV cruising in SDM Sport! I could have my cake and eat it too. And I would sing the praises of The Powerboost with CCD loud and clear.

They are SO close it's pure torture. Lol

 

[Snakebitten]

Arrived yesterday.
Unlike my typical old-man procrastination-self, I had received a text notification they would arrive in hours.

I went to the barn and prepped the truck.

My research revealed that they recommend installing them with the rear suspension at full-droop basically.

For this particular application they include bump-stop spacers, which I assume is because depending on which of the 2 recommended settings you choose, the truck height will increase from 1/2 to 1½"

The spacers are aluminum and cleverly designed to also move the stops inboard slightly to clear the added width that the trucks springpack will now take up.

At this point I deviated from what is instructed because my purpose for adding them is different than what I suspect the vast majority of buyers is. I'm not looking for Payload management or towing prowess. Rather I am using them as a second source of damping, similar to a second shock absorber. Afterall, they are definitely a coil spring that acts to dampen the leaf spring.

The installation instructions offer 2 degrees of initial damping. One choice is the amount of tension that leaves 1mm of space between each coil, and the other choice is twice that, 2mm of space between each coil. Included are nylon disks of each thickness to use as a feeler gauge.

I chose to only tension the spring enough to ensure that the entire mechanism was not loose and wouldn't rattle or move. My thinking is that if I ever went over some bump hard enough to completely unload the truck and momentarily be at full droop, the RAS would stay where it is. I don't intend to drive the truck in a manner that would have both wheels off the ground. Lol

After getting everything buttoned up and the truck back sitting on its own weight it was clear that the truck did NOT gain considerable rear height since I had not pretensioned to the degree that would have bowed the leafpak. I was rather pleased because it set no codes on the VDM module and I wouldn't have to recalibrate the module either.

So the mission now is to grab a couple of 22mm wrenches and keep them in the truck with me. Actually look for the rough roads and the railroad crossings. Note how it feels over the worst of the encounters with the truck bed empty. (other than my toolbox)

I intend to incrementally dial in additional damping until the CCD is managing the truck in Normal mode very similar to how it was managing the truck in Sport mode prior to adding RAS. If this works and I really can attain a well composed empty ride in Normal mode over crappy surface conditions, I will keep the CCD suspension and consider it a bargain!
Afterall, CCD is $650 and RAS is $499

Combined that wouldn't buy the rear shocks that I normally purchase for a truck. I'm optimistic.

 

[UGADawg96]

Arrived yesterday.
Unlike my typical old-man procrastination-self, I had received a text notification they would arrive in hours.

I went to the barn and prepped the truck.

My research revealed that they recommend installing them with the rear suspension at full-droop basically.

For this particular application they include bump-stop spacers, which I assume is because depending on which of the 2 recommended settings you choose, the truck height will increase from 1/2 to 1½"

The spacers are aluminum and cleverly designed to also move the stops inboard slightly to clear the added width that the trucks springpack will now take up.

At this point I deviated from what is instructed because my purpose for adding them is different than what I suspect the vast majority of buyers is. I'm not looking for Payload management or towing prowess. Rather I am using them as a second source of damping, similar to a second shock absorber. Afterall, they are definitely a coil spring that acts to dampen the leaf spring.

The installation instructions offer 2 degrees of initial damping. One choice is the amount of tension that leaves 1mm of space between each coil, and the other choice is twice that, 2mm of space between each coil. Included are nylon disks of each thickness to use as a feeler gauge.

I chose to only tension the spring enough to ensure that the entire mechanism was not loose and wouldn't rattle or move. My thinking is that if I ever went over some bump hard enough to completely unload the truck and momentarily be at full droop, the RAS would stay where it is. I don't intend to drive the truck in a manner that would have both wheels off the ground. Lol

After getting everything buttoned up and the truck back sitting on its own weight it was clear that the truck did NOT gain considerable rear height since I had not pretensioned to the degree that would have bowed the leafpak. I was rather pleased because it set no codes on the VDM module and I wouldn't have to recalibrate the module either.

So the mission now is to grab a couple of 22mm wrenches and keep them in the truck with me. Actually look for the rough roads and the railroad crossings. Note how it feels over the worst of the encounters with the truck bed empty. (other than my toolbox)

I intend to incrementally dial in additional damping until the CCD is managing the truck in Normal mode very similar to how it was managing the truck in Sport mode prior to adding RAS. If this works and I really can attain a well composed empty ride in Normal mode over crappy surface conditions, I will keep the CCD suspension and consider it a bargain!
Afterall, CCD is $650 and RAS is $499

Combined that wouldn't buy the rear shocks that I normally purchase for a truck. I'm optimistic.

Interested in any follow up thoughts you have on the RAS. Also, which bolt hole did you use, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd ? I've seen pics of people using one of the three. Does the instructions speak to which to use and why ? Also, this post is the first reference to a bump stop part as part of the kit. Do you have any additional info on it ? Thanks!

 

[jordandev]

Interested in any follow up thoughts you have on the RAS. Also, which bolt hole did you use, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd ? I've seen pics of people using one of the three. Does the instructions speak to which to use and why ? Also, this post is the first reference to a bump stop part as part of the kit. Do you have any additional info on it ? Thanks!

Not OP but,

When I installed mine I had read this thread that had some varying opinions on what bolt hole to use -> https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/roadmaster-active-suspension-squeak.3810/ so was unsure. So I emailed roadmaster and they recommended the 2nd on a 2021 F150 for best fit . Still not sure exactly what difference each bolt hole would make...

The bump stop spacer came with mine as well (HD kit). With the HD kit and tensioning to the 1mm spacer the rear was raised just about 1 inch. My purpose was more for towing than @Snakebitten though.

 

[UGADawg96]

Not OP but,

When I installed mine I had read this thread that had some varying opinions on what bolt hole to use -> https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/roadmaster-active-suspension-squeak.3810/ so was unsure. So I emailed roadmaster and they recommended the 2nd on a 2021 F150 for best fit . Still not sure exactly what difference each bolt hole would make...

The bump stop spacer came with mine as well (HD kit). With the HD kit and tensioning to the 1mm spacer the rear was raised just about 1 inch. My purpose was more for towing than @Snakebitten though.

Thanks for the chime in. Have you towed since installing the RAS kit ? How much is your tongue weight and how much less squat did the RAS provide when loaded ?

 

[Snakebitten]

Not OP but,

When I installed mine I had read this thread that had some varying opinions on what bolt hole to use -> https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/roadmaster-active-suspension-squeak.3810/ so was unsure. So I emailed roadmaster and they recommended the 2nd on a 2021 F150 for best fit . Still not sure exactly what difference each bolt hole would make...

The bump stop spacer came with mine as well (HD kit). With the HD kit and tensioning to the 1mm spacer the rear was raised just about 1 inch. My purpose was more for towing than @Snakebitten though.

Regardless of the recommendation, I'm pretty sure that the main reason there are multiple bolt holes is because they seem to use that same part for multiple kits for multiple vehicles.
The reason I chose the last/first bolt hole is that I did not disassemble the apparatus, so I was not sure how much each threaded rod protruded into the coilspring. So I was just insuring that I had the most available threads in use since I was intentionally pre-tensioning less than the 1mm setting.

Interesting that you ended up with the 1" raise, which IS within the range they predict. I suspected I would be less than predicted and I ended up with 3/8" raised. It turned out not to throw a code on the VDM module, so that was nice.

 

[jordandev]

Thanks for the chime in. Have you towed since installing the RAS kit ? How much is your tongue weight and how much less squat did the RAS provide when loaded ?

1000 lbs. Right around 1.25 inch less squat at the 1mm setting. Can still go up to 2mm. Trailer feels good as is though.

 

[UGADawg96]

1000 lbs. Right around 1.25 inch less squat at the 1mm setting. Can still go up to 2mm. Trailer feels good as is though.

I was thinking about ordering the HD kit since our TT is about 6500lbs with 850lbs of tongue weight.

 

[UGADawg96]

ok, so went down to the TT (6440lb/840hitch/13% - link to CAT weights, etc) today in storage and decided to do some measurement testing.

w/o TT - at gas station within 1/4 mile of storage:
Front Fender 1/4 Tank 38 1/4
Rear Fender 1/4 Tank 40 1/2
Front Fender Full Tank 38 1/8 (down 1/8 with 23 additional gallons of 87)
Rear Fender Full Tank 40 1/4 (down 1/4 with 23 additional gallons of 87)

TT connected with out WDH bars:
Front Fender Full Tank 38 3/8 (raised 1/4 compared to no trailer)
Rear Fender Full Tank 38 1/2 (lowered 1 3/4 compared to no trailer)

TT connected with WDH bars:
Front Fender Full Tank 38 1/8 (back to same as no trailer attached)
Rear Fender Full Tank 38 3/8 (1/8 less than w/o bars)

The only difference between truck and trailer connected today and when we normally take it out on the road is about 500lb of humans up front and maybe 50-100lb of stuff in back seats/bed.

So @jordandev & @Snakebitten, the question is RAS or no RAS ? They have a sale for the holiday and debating if RAS will help or if it is even necessary for my setup ?

Any questions about how it currently drives, this post goes into detail.

 

[Snakebitten]

Well it's easy for me to spend your money. Lol

I personally think that RAS can apply to more than just towing height and weight distribution support when truck is loaded. However I admit that the marketing and most common purpose is to aid in carrying weight.

But I look at them a little differently than that "narrow" application. I consider what they actually are doing from a physics-based approach. Technically they are doing 2 things in reality :

1. They are literally a coil spring that is acting as a second damper on the leaf spring. It's like adding a second damper/shock to the rear suspension. So although the factory shock might be both unadjustable, AND be notoriously under damped for the empty/loaded rear of the truck, the RAS lets you apply additional and adjustable damping to the leaf spring.

2. Another perspective is that the RAS is actually an adaptable spring-rate mechanism. Or at least the shock absorber will experience it that way. The shock doesn't know RAS is there, but it does experience a leaf spring that suddenly has a different spring rate, depending on what your RAS settings are.

It's probably the suspension-geek in me that finds the RAS such a cool "tool" to dial-in how the rear suspension behaves on the truck. In my opinion, a truck by its very design has a potential wide variation of rear Payload. So a static shock valving (non-adjustable damper) and leaf spring is going to naturally be compromised at one end of the spectrum or the other. And it's obvious Ford caters to the ride of the empty truck on the F150 VS their HD truck platform. For me the RAS is a brilliant way of having my cake and eating it to since I don't have to purchase high-end suspension components to get the adjustability.

Note: my previous F150 had Fox 2.5 with DSC all the way around. A fabulous setup and awesome for towing. But RAS is like 1/5th the price and in some ways more than just an adjustable damper compared to the Fox kit.

 

[powerboatr]

Well it's easy for me to spend your money. Lol

I personally think that RAS can apply to more than just towing height and weight distribution support when truck is loaded. However I admit that the marketing and most common purpose is to aid in carrying weight.

But I look at them a little differently than that "narrow" application. I consider what they actually are doing from a physics-based approach. Technically they are doing 2 things in reality :

1. They are literally a coil spring that is acting as a second damper on the leaf spring. It's like adding a second damper/shock to the rear suspension. So although the factory shock might be both unadjustable, AND be notoriously under damped for the empty/loaded rear of the truck, the RAS lets you apply additional and adjustable damping to the leaf spring.

2. Another perspective is that the RAS is actually an adaptable spring-rate mechanism. Or at least the shock absorber will experience it that way. The shock doesn't know RAS is there, but it does experience a leaf spring that suddenly has a different spring rate, depending on what your RAS settings are.

It's probably the suspension-geek in me that finds the RAS such a cool "tool" to dial-in how the rear suspension behaves on the truck. In my opinion, a truck by its very design has a potential wide variation of rear Payload. So a static shock valving (non-adjustable damper) and leaf spring is going to naturally be compromised at one end of the spectrum or the other. And it's obvious Ford caters to the ride of the empty truck on the F150 VS their HD truck platform. For me the RAS is a brilliant way of having my cake and eating it to since I don't have to purchase high-end suspension components to get the adjustability.

Note: my previous F150 had Fox 2.5 with DSC all the way around. A fabulous setup and awesome for towing. But RAS is like 1/5th the price and in some ways more than just an adjustable damper compared to the Fox kit.

and you got a BIG cool freaking hangar to work in, mine is getting full . time to blow out a wall.
great write up on the ras.

 

[C_Harris]

Well it's easy for me to spend your money. Lol

I personally think that RAS can apply to more than just towing height and weight distribution support when truck is loaded. However I admit that the marketing and most common purpose is to aid in carrying weight.

But I look at them a little differently than that "narrow" application. I consider what they actually are doing from a physics-based approach. Technically they are doing 2 things in reality :

1. They are literally a coil spring that is acting as a second damper on the leaf spring. It's like adding a second damper/shock to the rear suspension. So although the factory shock might be both unadjustable, AND be notoriously under damped for the empty/loaded rear of the truck, the RAS lets you apply additional and adjustable damping to the leaf spring.

2. Another perspective is that the RAS is actually an adaptable spring-rate mechanism. Or at least the shock absorber will experience it that way. The shock doesn't know RAS is there, but it does experience a leaf spring that suddenly has a different spring rate, depending on what your RAS settings are.

It's probably the suspension-geek in me that finds the RAS such a cool "tool" to dial-in how the rear suspension behaves on the truck. In my opinion, a truck by its very design has a potential wide variation of rear Payload. So a static shock valving (non-adjustable damper) and leaf spring is going to naturally be compromised at one end of the spectrum or the other. And it's obvious Ford caters to the ride of the empty truck on the F150 VS their HD truck platform. For me the RAS is a brilliant way of having my cake and eating it to since I don't have to purchase high-end suspension components to get the adjustability.

Note: my previous F150 had Fox 2.5 with DSC all the way around. A fabulous setup and awesome for towing. But RAS is like 1/5th the price and in some ways more than just an adjustable damper compared to the Fox kit.

If I ever get my truck, I was thinking about these to help the ride on an empty bed. Wasn't sure if it would affect accuracy on the smart scales/hitch though.

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