Premium or ethanol for towing?

[Enrique Fantastico]

So I've been trucking firewood over the mountain weekly for the last few weeks.

With about 2000ish lbs in the bed, (I load it until the wheel wells are just about level) in addition to towing a small 6x10 trailer that maybe weighs about 5000lbs loaded.

The trip is just under 100 miles with an initial climb from 9 to 12000 ft, then down and up over several smaller ridges to a final destination of about 7000 ft elevation.

Used premium gas on the first 2 trips and averaged about 14mpg.

The last 2 trips I've used e85, and gotten about 13mpg out of it.

Of course, the mighty coyote pulled like a champ using both fuels, but naturally felt a little stronger on the e85.

I'd say, using corn juice at a minimum of $1.50 less per gallon while towing is definitely more economical, and gives a little better performance according to the seat of the pants dyno.

So for future towing, I'll be filing it up with truck booze, unless anyone knows of any reasn not to?

In fact, I may just start using e85 100% of the time. It stands to reason that the lower ideal a/f ratio of e85 helps significantly at altitude with less atmospheric pressure to fill the cylinders.


Granted, the economy while not towing leaves a lot to be desired vs. premium, but the cost difference more than negates that fact from an economical point of view.

Side note, this engine's economy during heavy(ish)towing is where I believe the 5.0 to be far superior to its forced inducted brethren. Including the PB, and especially at extreme high altitude.

Comments? Suggestions?
Flame War over engine options?

Bring 'em on.

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[Enrique Fantastico]

This is all fresh cut green lodgepole pine. Very heavy wood. Nevermind the extra wind drag from the tool topper.

Actual mileage from yesterday's trip on ethanol. Only slightly worse than with premium, and I wasn't but being gentle on the throttle. There was a fair amount of idling involved and a few slower vehicles overtaken going uphill. I drive rather quickly most
times.

 

[Snakebitten]

As far as I am concerned, I'm watching for a happy combustion chamber. Especially under load.

I think both of those choices provide a good safe anti-knock burn. And that's the reason I think Ford openly suggests better than lo-load 87?

 

[Enrique Fantastico]

As far as I am concerned, I'm watching for a happy combustion chamber. Especially under load.

I think both of those choices provide a good safe anti-knock burn. And that's the reason I think Ford openly suggests better than lo-load 87?

Cylinder washing is my concern, but i don't see being any more of less an issue while towing. .

I change oil every 5k come hell or high water and use only premium synthetic. Although I'm a rather lead footed driver, typically my engines always seem to last much longer than my vehicles do.

I'm supposedly getting free mobile oil changes for 6 years as part of my extended warranty package (dealer furnished, not Ford esp). I'm told they will come I wherever I am to do it. Haven't used them yet, but my first oil change should be due mid December. I imagine they use Motorcraft oil.

I also supposedly have a LIFETIME powertrain warranty from them s long as Idon't go tuning the hell out of it.

The paltry 430hp on e85 is enough for me. I won't be doing any mods. At least for the next 6 years ior 175,000 mile.

 

[Enrique Fantastico]

Unloading the wood now. it's next years supply, si it's still green and heavier than it looks. Damn I hate the battery minder keeps shutting off my radio. Almost ready to unplug it.

I suppose that point goes to the pb.

If they EVER make a 5.0pb, i'll be first in line!

 

[Gros Ventre]

Ford recommends higher octane for towing, heavy load, and hot wx. E-85 will surely give you that as the octane rating for ethanol, as I recall, is around 110. What I might ask is have you had any pinging or detonation under load? If not 87 will work... your call. Do some runs and see how the performance is.

 

[Pedaldude]

The computer does all the work to make this possible and it’s just remarkable. I think there’s also an ethanol sensor that helps to decide which fuel and spark maps to use. At least there was in prior generations.

The only thing about using e85 all the time is that I believe Ford recommends running one tank of regular gasoline during the oil change interval to keep everything lubed in the fuel system. Or every other; check the manual.

I would try at least one tank of e85 but here it’s around the same price as regular, so maybe if I pass through somewhere else where it’s more advantageous. I think the manual also recommended not to constantly switch back and forth.

Good luck and enjoy your truck!

 

[Samson16]

In fact, I may just start using e85 100% of the time. It stands to reason that the lower ideal a/f ratio of e85 helps significantly at altitude with less atmospheric pressure to fill the cylinders.

That was my suggestion for you regarding power increase at altitude in a NA flex fuel.

 

[Samson16]

Now when I’m planting a nice size double Robellini how much root ball should be above ground? Just as it was in the pot to prevent fungus and rot?
Just playing around

 

[Enrique Fantastico]

Now when I’m planting a nice size double Robellini how much root ball should be above ground? Just as it was in the pot to prevent fungus and rot?
Just playing around

I dunno. That thing make good firewood?

 

[Enrique Fantastico]

That was my suggestion for you regarding power increase at altitude in a NA flex fuel.

You can definitely tell the difference. I don't think it's losing much hp up here. At least Not as much as the older fixed cam engines. I had to slog 4.6 company trucks up and down the mountains for years in the early 2000s. Those 12th gens took a hell of a lot of abuse. Pretty much red lined them constantly. We all had company gas cards at the time.

The 5.4s and v10s would pull 3rd gear up the divide. The 4.6s on the other hand., we'd have to just put them in second and let them eat. else they'd rev up to 75, shift to third, then drop back down to 60 before down shifting and starting the loop all over again. Annoying.

Better to just let them bounce off the limiter and stay there.

 

[Samson16]

I dunno. That thing make good firewood?

It’s just an ornamental palm so we’d need to be marooned on an island to choose it lol.

 

[12Lariat21]

Everything being equal you should see 15-25% drop in fuel economy. Your drop from 14 to 13 mpg seems too small of a drop, unless the elevation has some extra benefit from the ethanol....But then again, E85 is just a name, you'll never see it at 85% ethanol, the mix varies between 51-83%, usually in the middle, high middle of that range (at least here in MN).

Ethanol has 15-25% less energy per gallon than Gasoline. The ethanol will make more power, you just need to burn more of it. Also ethanol likes water, so if you are ever going to have the truck parked for an extended period of time I would highly recommend clearing out as much ethanol as possible and fill it with non-oxy Premium gasoline.

 

[FirstFord]

Interesting discussion... It triggered my curiosity, and motivated me to actually look at my Owner's Manual. After reviewing the manual, my takeaways were:

- "Do not use" E85 fuel
- "Do not use" fuels with ethanol content higher than 15%
- "Do not recommend" switching back and forth between E85 and gasoline
- 87 octane is the minimum, but 91+ octane is recommended for best performance in all driving conditions, but especially when towing, hauling, or in hot weather.
- High altitude: some gas station's "regular" is 85 octane - this fuel can damage your engine and will not be covered by warranty.

As for me, I had been burning "regular" 87 octane (I do not live in a high altitude region) for the first year, and would switch to premium when towing or hauling. This seemed like a good game plan, balancing economy with the needs of the engine when towing or hauling, or during the summer. But the plan was far from perfect. Half the time, when I towed or hauled, it was not necessarily a planned event, and I already had a full tank (or 3/4...) of gas, and it was 87 octane. Where I live, there is a pretty big difference in price between 87 (regular) and 91 octane (premium), but curiously, only a small difference between 87 and 89 (so-called mid-grade). So now, mid-grade is my "standard" everyday fuel, and premium is for towing and hauling (when it works out) and during the summer.

 

[My 2ND Ford]

Interesting discussion... It triggered my curiosity, and motivated me to actually look at my Owner's Manual. After reviewing the manual, my takeaways were:

- "Do not use" E85 fuel
- "Do not use" fuels with ethanol content higher than 15%
- "Do not recommend" switching back and forth between E85 and gasoline
- 87 octane is the minimum, but 91+ octane is recommended for best performance in all driving conditions, but especially when towing, hauling, or in hot weather.
- High altitude: some gas station's "regular" is 85 octane - this fuel can damage your engine and will not be covered by warranty.

As for me, I had been burning "regular" 87 octane (I do not live in a high altitude region) for the first year, and would switch to premium when towing or hauling. This seemed like a good game plan, balancing economy with the needs of the engine when towing or hauling, or during the summer. But the plan was far from perfect. Half the time, when I towed or hauled, it was not necessarily a planned event, and I already had a full tank (or 3/4...) of gas, and it was 87 octane. Where I live, there is a pretty big difference in price between 87 (regular) and 91 octane (premium), but curiously, only a small difference between 87 and 89 (so-called mid-grade). So now, mid-grade is my "standard" everyday fuel, and premium is for towing and hauling (when it works out) and during the summer.

Our 3.5 EB cannot use E85, the fuel system is not set up for it. Here in Ny, most stations are 87,89,93. The ones that have 91 are usually ethanol free and that is what I use in all my small engines. Yes, I have the same problem of vast price difference between grades, 93 can be as much as $1.50 more pre gal over 87. Not worth it in my opinion.

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