Powerboost Winter driving and handling characteristics

[Norheat]

Ford finally released my truck. The end result is that they said my truck was operating normally in 2wd and there were no problems found.

They also recommended that in slippery conditions, the truck should be put in 4wd for best performance.

My advice, don't forget to put it in 4wd.

Hope this helps.

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[Roger350]

Well, that kind of stinks, as I was hoping they would see the results of your testing/videos and start working on a reprogram of the braking algorithm. But the easy fix is to tell us all to use slippery mode. Thanks for all your effort to get the right people engaged. Maybe they'll continue working the issue in the background and just didn't want to promise a fix was going to come.

 

[Norheat]

Well, that kind of stinks, as I was hoping they would see the results of your testing/videos and start working on a reprogram of the braking algorithm. But the easy fix is to tell us all to use slippery mode. Thanks for all your effort to get the right people engaged. Maybe they'll continue working the issue in the background and just didn't want to promise a fix was going to come.

Yes, I plan to follow up with Ford on this. I would hope that with updates etc it will get better. Maybe also be better after the vehicle breaks in.

Honestly, I am fully impressed with this truck. I figure if I can give them all the information I can, it will only make it better for everyone.

If I get any information I will post it
Cheers

 

[Icecoldak]

I figure if its slick in any way, I will be in 4WA period, hence no problem in operation!!

 

[CnB150Lariat]

Yes, I plan to follow up with Ford on this. I would hope that with updates etc it will get better. Maybe also be better after the vehicle breaks in.

Honestly, I am fully impressed with this truck. I figure if I can give them all the information I can, it will only make it better for everyone.

If I get any information I will post it
Cheers

Did you put snow tires on or plan to? Which tires do you have on the truck? The pirellis or hankooks?

 

[Icecoldak]

I have a 19 Limited and went to 18" Blizzaks for my winter tires and will be keeping them for my 21-22 Limited soon, the Blizzaks are amazing winter tire------

 

[Norheat]

I figure if its slick in any way, I will be in 4WA period, hence no problem in operation!!

I understand, but I have never had a problem running snow covered or ice covered roads in 2wd before.

Also what is considered slippery. The same thing happens on sand covered roads.

Time will tell.

Cheers

 

[Norheat]

Did you put snow tires on or plan to? Which tires do you have on the truck? The pirellis or hankooks?

Blizzak DMv2.

 

[Bryan Simon]

I still think something may be 'not quite right'
There are PB 2 wheelers being built too.
Are they gonna tell these buyers that the car is unsafe without the 4x4 option to help slow you down in a straight line?

Something that should be considered is that your 4x4 should behave just as a 2-wheeler when in 2HI. Should not have any other weird characteristics that the 2-wheeler does not have.

I get that some may not be shifting into 4hi or 4auto in inclement weather. Not all of my vehicles have had the 4x option.

Also, 4x4 is good for getting going on the slick roads, but once rolling, physics takes over and it is just gonna take X amount of time and distance to get stopped, no matter how many wheels are driving.

That generator should not be so aggressive when engaging so that the ass end of the car stays where the ass end should be----behind you.

 

[Norheat]

I still think something may be 'not quite right'
There are PB 2 wheelers being built too.
Are they gonna tell these buyers that the car is unsafe without the 4x4 option to help slow you down in a straight line?

Something that should be considered is that your 4x4 should behave just as a 2-wheeler when in 2HI. Should not have any other weird characteristics that the 2-wheeler does not have.

I get that some may not be shifting into 4hi or 4auto in inclement weather. Not all of my vehicles have had the 4x option.

Also, 4x4 is good for getting going on the slick roads, but once rolling, physics takes over and it is just gonna take X amount of time and distance to get stopped, no matter how many wheels are driving.

That generator should not be so aggressive when engaging so that the ass end of the car stays where the ass end should be----behind you.

Absolutely my argument with Ford.
You are bang on.
It just doesn't make sense.

 

[MitchAK]

This is our 3rd Ecoboost.
2012 XLT 4x4 screw 157” 3.5EB w/3.55
2016 XLT 4x4 screw 157” 3.5EB w/3.55
2021 XLT 4x4 screw 157” PB w/3.73

My wife noticed that going ‘12 to ‘16 the truck flung around more in the ass end, guessing because the change to aluminum body.
The driving character changed ‘12 to ‘16 because the ‘12 was always ready with the torque and the ‘16 went to driving modes, (went to as in vehicles I owned not sure when they made the Model year changes.)
The PB feels like even in slippery with 4H a lot more like the ‘12. It handles exceptionally well and although we’re accustomed to driving in 4HI just pretty much all winter in Alaska. This truck just feels so much more planted with that battery in the back. We have the XLT sport it came with the Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT. The tire seems like a good highway tire that gives minimal noise and handles the winter just fine.
We don’t plan on going winter tire, in the ‘12 we went blizzaks and they were great.
We’ve always ran load E for towing and I’m considering if I want to do that for my wife’s new PB or not.
I guess it’s the 3.73 on the PB but there is definitely a significant turning radius between the past ecoboost trucks and this one. We usually take it out of 4 in parking lots and the ‘16 not really a big deal especially backing into a spot. But the ‘21 is a pig.

 

[Airborne_Ape]

Does anyone have a mechanical diagram of how Ford's regenerative braking system actually works in these F150's? I assume energy recapture only only occurs up through the rear drive train regardless of drive mode and below is my theory why.

First I don't think Ford would dedicate time and resources to have a separate regenerative energy capture system between 2x4, 4A and 4H models. Then think about a Hybrid Lariat which has a Torque on Demand Transfer Case. T.O.D. systems use a friction material and fluid coupling to distribute torque at a variable rate to the front output shaft.

If someone is driving along in 4A with their IWE's engaged and 4A is distributing torque 70% rear and 30% front and they begin to brake I would expect the friction material in a TOD transfer case to have a very short lifespan if any regenerative capture occurred through the front.

My guess is the entire regenerative system is rear wheel based only and that's why you guys are sliding around a bit as described. An algorithm in the ABS module is likely trying to compensate for different braking forces between the front and rear at all times and slippery surfaces like snow and sand are causing some issues that can probably be resolved by an eventual software update.

 

[Norheat]

Does anyone have a mechanical diagram of how Ford's regenerative braking system actually works in these F150's? I assume energy recapture only only occurs up through the rear drive train regardless of drive mode and below is my theory why.

First I don't think Ford would dedicate time and resources to have a separate regenerative energy capture system between 2x4, 4A and 4H models. Then think about a Hybrid Lariat which has a Torque on Demand Transfer Case. T.O.D. systems use a friction material and fluid coupling to distribute torque at a variable rate to the front output shaft.

If someone is driving along in 4A with their IWE's engaged and 4A is distributing torque 70% rear and 30% front and they begin to brake I would expect the friction material in a TOD transfer case to have a very short lifespan if any regenerative capture occurred through the front.

My guess is the entire regenerative system is rear wheel based only and that's why you guys are sliding around a bit as described. An algorithm in the ABS module is likely trying to compensate for different braking forces between the front and rear at all times and slippery surfaces like snow and sand are causing some issues that can probably be resolved by an eventual software update.

I don't have a diagram of the regenerative braking system. That being said I have spoken to the technician that was working on my truck and he explained it like this.

The rear wheels have alternator like motors on each wheel. They are controlled by a built in clutch that engages when under braking.
Apparently has nothing to do with the actual brakes, (meaning rotors and pads etc). I think that they are electric controlled by the computer.
The wheels spin the motors when the clutches engage and those motors charge the battery.


I am not sure if the front wheels have them or not.

I don't recall there ever being a rear wheel drive hybrid?

Maybe someone's knows of a previous vehicle that was a hybrid in rear wheel drive?

I believe when you are in slippery or 4A etc, the regen braking is distributed between 4 wheels not just the rear wheels or it is disengaged. I never really got any answer on this.

That's how it was explained but I can't promise that it is bang on.

I was told that I am supposed to drive it in slippery or 4A when it is slippery. That is how it is supposed to work.

I kind of called BS, and said so what do you tell the guys who only have the 2wd version of the PB? Not to drive it in snow or slippery conditions?

No answer to that comment other than that's a good point sir.

I believe that it is the drag that those motors create when they engage while charging the battery.

As long as there is enough friction with the road, there is no problem because the wheels will roll and maintain traction even though there is drag in the system.

When you are driving on ice, snow and sand covered roads, the wheels can slide instead of roll because of loss of traction or friction between the road and tire.

I would suspect that a update will come out in the next 6 months to maybe reduce the amount of drag on the motors and this will be fixed.

The truck handles awesome and the overall experience of driving is top notch. They will figure this out and it might even change as the motors on the wheels break in.

 

[newdeal99]

but you can't drive around in 4H all the time, and XLTs can get powerboost but don't have the 4A option at all so they would need to be using 2wd at some point in slick roads

 

[Norheat]

but you can't drive around in 4H all the time, and XLTs can get powerboost but don't have the 4A option at all so they would need to be using 2wd at some point in slick roads

Do XLTs have a slippery mode?
If they do, I would think that the calibration would adjust the regen mode under deceleration, like it must do with the 4wd models.

If they don't, I don't know what the answer would be.

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