PowerBoost UOA Kirkland 5W-30 @ 9,900 mi -- Blackstone Oil Analysis Report

[KTM753]

This will stir up some opinions. I have read a lot of UOA threads at BITOG and other places about the Ecoboost engine. I believe it's hard on oil, more so than other engines. See the very first post in this thread for proof of this.

I plan to change my oil roughly every 3,333 miles with Kirkland Synthetic 5w-30. It's $25 for 6 quarts. I purchased a 12 pack of Motorcraft filters on eBay and it came out to $6.94 a filter. So cash per oil change, I am into it $32 per change.

Blackstone is $30 per UOA. More for ash content analysis. So say I do a UOA at 3,333 and don't change my oil. And this UOA says I can go another 2,000 miles before changing. At 5,333 miles I change the oil. So the extra $30 for the UOA got me (5,333/3,333) = 1.6 or 60% more miles. But I am (62/32) = 1.93 or 93% more expensive on my oil change... 93% vs 60%... ?

I would rather have the next 2,000 miles be 100% fresh oil than run it longer and had paid to see that it was okay to do so. My duty cycle across oil changes varies (summer towing vs winter commuting, etc). I don't see the benefit to a UOA to verify. Especially because Blackstone doesn't measure the fuel dilution in a manner some deem accurate... (https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/blackstone-and-fuel-dilution.357356/)

I plan to change my oil often and recycle it. If you don't like that, fine by me. If you want to spend more money to run your oil longer, fine by me. This post wasn't to convince you that I am right and you are wrong. It's just another data point and info for others that read through this thread in the future like I did to arrive at their own decision. My decision as outlined above was after reading a lot about UOA from Ecoboosts others have already done.

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[HammaMan]

Curious as to why ford has these motors run 5w-30 --- as in many manufacturers use much lighter weights due to tolerances. Perhaps it's they designed it for a 2.5w-25 but due to fuel dilation they use higher viscosity knowing it will do what it do? Has anyone had any insights / words from the engineers on the 3.5s or EBs in general?

Turbos are traditionally quite hard on oil, but with the water cooled bearings perhaps we're just not getting the higher heat that came in earlier iterations thus showing higher fuel/oil mixes, particularly in the hybrids that are continual start stop in urban driving?

 

[Gros Ventre]

Some years ago, on another car, I started letting the oil sample analysis results tell me when to change oil. I went from 3,00 miles to 6,000 miles to 9,000 miles... to 18,000 miles to 21,000 miles. I decided that 15,000 miles was long enough even if the sample results didn't call for a change of oil. The Tribology can tell you when an oil change is needed. Fundamentals are TBN, ash content and any specific additives that may be important. If those don't look good, then change it.

 

[lrequa92]

This is Why You Never Run Extended Oil Change Intervals on The Ford Ecoboost Engines! - YouTube

 

[Gros Ventre]

I've done the same thing on a 2006 Escape Hybrid (bought new) and now well over 200,000 miles. Having watched that clip... My thought is if you're doing the analysis and watching the ash content and the insolubles along with the TBN to ensure that the oil's base value remains good... this video does not apply to extended intervals.

 

[Pedaldude]

Turbos are traditionally quite hard on oil, but with the water cooled bearings perhaps we're just not getting the higher heat that came in earlier iterations thus showing higher fuel/oil mixes, particularly in the hybrids that are continual start stop in urban driving?

Lots has improved since the 80’s despite what people would like to say about manufacturers and QC. Oil is better and the turbos are optimized for the applications. The huge difference is the high speed digital computers that control spark, fuel, air and even cam timing. You could probably take a stock Ecoboost and run it in an 80’s F1 car and be competitive on pump gas*, which is crazy to think. Granted, it’s over twice the displacement but still it’s crazy to think.

*E85 of course, but still available at the pump in many places.

Though, back in the day; factory turbos often outlasted the engines that they were installed on. Unless there was a design flaw on the turbo system; usually it was the fuel management that let things down and sometimes a smoked piston could take out a turbo if the engine was running so lean that detonation occurred. Most of the time though; it was a blown head gasket or piston rings that wouldn’t hold compression, even on crappy low boost engines.

A lot of the factory turbos that were having problems were with people that never let the engines warm up and just pottered around. Now with the better engine management; they will not only warm up faster but also be able to get away with the auto start stop which would have been awful for those OG turbos. I remember having to get Lotus Esprit turbos to pass emissions and the only way was to get it up to temperature on the highway in third gear and blast through town hoping not to get stuck at a red light and then pulling straight into the test bay for emissions...any delay for more than a moment and it was back onto the highway, or it would fail.

 

[Gros Ventre]

The oil in that video is oil that is dirty, gummy and probably overheated or run cold... If you keep things clean, changing oil is one way but good filtration is another, you won't see that. The words above about warming up and running are good thinking. In my case I've installed an 8µ main filter and recently put in a 1µ bypass filter... On other trucks this kind of filtration has made a real difference in engine longevity. Keep in mind if the turbo screens are that gunky other places in the engine are also. The turbo screens simply show it up first...

 

[cb4017]

This is Why You Never Run Extended Oil Change Intervals on The Ford Ecoboost Engines! - YouTube

Just came to post this. Guy is a Ford mechanic and explains and shows why longer oil changes are not a good thing for EB engines. He seems very knowledgeable and has a lot of great videos about the care and upkeep of Ford trucks.

Historically I usually change oil every 5k miles with tire rotation and will be continuing that on my 3.5 EB.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Just came to post this. Guy is a Ford mechanic and explains and shows why longer oil changes are not a good thing for EB engines. He seems very knowledgeable and has a lot of great videos about the care and upkeep of Ford trucks.

Historically I usually change oil every 5k miles with tire rotation and will be continuing that on my 3.5 EB.

The issue of longer oil channges has to do with how you care for your engine. If all you do is change oil every so often with over the counter filters and oil... got it... But if you are using finer filtration and doing oil analysis along with not doing short runs. In other words if all you're doing is getting to the next trade in with minimal attention... go for it. I observed the Navy operate machinery for half a century of lifetime only changing out oil based on analysis and monitoring. Remember, this guy is repairing whatever comes in the door and he's likely showing you the worst stuff he sees and do you know whether he is seeing dino oil or is he seeing synthetic oil? Like I said, if all you're interested in is getting to the next trade-in, you're OK, no criticism. If you want to make a truck go 30 years, as I have done, analysis, filtration, full synthetic oils, and minimal short runs w/o warmup get you there.

 

[fordtruckman2003]

Just my 2¢ on oil analysis history from owning first gen 3.5. Did an analysis every oil change after engine rebuild for 7 years.

On oil change day had my ramps loaded in truck, drive to work or whatever. Get home without shutting off engine after 30 minutes of driving and park truck on ramps. Take few minutes to get my creeper and other stuff ready then start changing oil. Every sample was fine with nothing unusual.

The couple times I did not follow this process it showed fuel dilution if the engine was recently started. Even getting home with hot engine, shut off, go and get my ramps, start engine to get up on ramps. Bingo fuel dilution.

Just my experience and with my engine I never worried about the fuel because when it was there it was me that caused it. Normal driving it just burns off and isn't a concern. If all you do is nothing but very short trips you'll never burn off the fuel in oil though.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Got it. I infer that these engines are more susceptible to fuel dilution if left at low power too long. My next oil change and sample, like you I'll get all stuff ready, I'll take it out on the road for a good warmup and drive right into the work area and stop the engine with little idling.

 

[fordtruckman2003]

I can't speak to the nature of the 3rd? generation 3.5 used on the PB but I got into the habit of doing my oil changes hot (warm) immediately after a drive. It is what Blackstone recommends on website. Give it a shot just don't burn yourself. I usually do give the truck 15-20 minutes by time I get ready to do the thing. It's still plenty hot to flow fast and sample about halfway through draining. To me consistently is the key if you plan to do multiple oil analysis over time. I just do it because I can. The cost is minimal to satisfy my curiosity. I'll be doing one on my new truck I have no clue what oil they put in it being used. It looked fresh and at correct fill level before I left dealer that's all that matters for now.

Off topic a bit...
My issues were more with iron that took a few years to get flushed out after my rebuild using motorcraft blend like factory. Switched to full synthetic and the iron dropped off fast. Perhaps the OEM blend was not as good as I give it credit for many years. Walmart supertech is not very high on TBN but it's good enough it's still protecting at 7500 miles and could go longer. I run Rotella in motorcycles that stuff can go 20k per analysis but I'm not that desperate to save a buck. The real fun thing with doing 7+ years of oil analysis on my rides... I can drive to Blackstone in couple hours. Half my samples would take 3-4 weeks to reach them via USPS. The new system they put in place and documented on their blog finally resolved that.

 

[Gros Ventre]

I can't speak to the nature of the 3rd? generation 3.5 used on the PB but I got into the habit of doing my oil changes hot (warm) immediately after a drive. It is what Blackstone recommends on website. Give it a shot just don't burn yourself. I usually do give the truck 15-20 minutes by time I get ready to do the thing. It's still plenty hot to flow fast and sample about halfway through draining. To me consistently is the key if you plan to do multiple oil analysis over time. I just do it because I can. The cost is minimal to satisfy my curiosity. I'll be doing one on my new truck I have no clue what oil they put in it being used. It looked fresh and at correct fill level before I left dealer that's all that matters for now.

Off topic a bit...
My issues were more with iron that took a few years to get flushed out after my rebuild using motorcraft blend like factory. Switched to full synthetic and the iron dropped off fast. Perhaps the OEM blend was not as good as I give it credit for many years. Walmart supertech is not very high on TBN but it's good enough it's still protecting at 7500 miles and could go longer. I run Rotella in motorcycles that stuff can go 20k per analysis but I'm not that desperate to save a buck. The real fun thing with doing 7+ years of oil analysis on my rides... I can drive to Blackstone in couple hours. Half my samples would take 3-4 weeks to reach them via USPS. The new system they put in place and documented on their blog finally resolved that.

Agreed. Been doing samples w/Blackstone since the early 2000s. The only issue I'm dealing with is the fuel dilution, it's not bad at all, and that's the plan on driving right into the work area while good & hot. Got it on not burning my hand...

 

[Gros Ventre]

BTW... on a couple of cars ago, I decided to let the oil samples tell me when to change oil (eg I sampled then every 3,000 mi). I got out to 21,000 miles when I decided that enough was enough, and decided that 15,000 miles was where I'd change oil... and that's now consistent with what Blackstone is telling me on the F-150.

 

[fordtruckman2003]

BTW... on a couple of cars ago, I decided to let the oil samples tell me when to change oil (eg I sampled then every 3,000 mi). I got out to 21,000 miles when I decided that enough was enough, and decided that 15,000 miles was where I'd change oil... and that's now consistent with what Blackstone is telling me on the F-150.

Yeah they had same recommendation on my motorcycle. I don't go out of the way to get extreme mileage on oil. It just needs to get to the mileage the oil monitor tells me to change it. It's always been capable of going far beyond that mileage but I don't see the point.

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