Powerboost engine oil?

[Snakebitten]

I caution to treat it similarly to say..... Valve stem carbon coaking on GTI/direct injection motors.

Some vehicles, like VW and BMW, have alarming examples of the dilemma. And once you read that it is a result of Direct Injection, you will immediately be concerned if your vehicle is direct injected as well.

That's SO oversimplified. Not every direct injected vehicle is going to have the same issues as those worst case vehicles. Not even close.

I don't think LSPI has proved to be an meaningful issue with the 3.5 Ecoboost engine even long before LSPI gained such public traction.
The Gen1 (2011-2016) 3.5 Ecoboost engine certainly had its weak points. But Ford did a REMARKABLE job addressing those issues with the Gen2 3.5 Ecoboost in 2017. (sans the notorious phasers, of course)

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[Samson16]

Hey! My 2.4L turbo direct injection Outback has a date sometime in the future with a walnut blaster

 

[Mike_D]

That’s the spec sheet for the oil I’m using.

@Samson16

Would you mind sharing the full web site name for what you posted above? The beginning is cut off. Looks like ".....lsandlubricants.com". Do you purchase the full synthetic Motorcraft oil from that site? Good prices? Thanks.

 

[Polo08816]

I caution to treat it similarly to say..... Valve stem carbon coaking on GTI/direct injection motors.

Some vehicles, like VW and BMW, have alarming examples of the dilemma. And once you read that it is a result of Direct Injection, you will immediately be concerned if your vehicle is direct injected as well.

That's SO oversimplified. Not every direct injected vehicle is going to have the same issues as those worst case vehicles. Not even close.

I don't think LSPI has proved to be an meaningful issue with the 3.5 Ecoboost engine even long before LSPI gained such public traction.
The Gen1 (2011-2016) 3.5 Ecoboost engine certainly had its weak points. But Ford did a REMARKABLE job addressing those issues with the Gen2 3.5 Ecoboost in 2017. (sans the notorious phasers, of course)

I'll use the BMW N54 and N55 as an example.

The carbon build up became a problem on the N54, but the issue is largely resolved on the N55. I have two with N55 engines and after 140,000 miles, it's not a problem on either of them.

 

[Samson16]

@Samson16

Would you mind sharing the full web site name for what you posted above? The beginning is cut off. Looks like ".....lsandlubricants.com". Do you purchase the full synthetic Motorcraft oil from that site? Good prices? Thanks.

I googled the oil I requested during my dealer performed oil changes and then drilled down to the SDS sheet and screen grabbed it. The dealer will use a 5w30 synthetic blend unless you request full. Wimpy I know, but I just had my driveway redone and widened and it looks so pretty without oil spots lol.
*I tried looking for the website info but couldn’t find it.

 

[Mike_D]

I googled the oil I requested during my dealer performed oil changes and then drilled down to the SDS sheet and screen grabbed it. The dealer will use a 5w30 synthetic blend unless you request full. Wimpy I know, but I just had my driveway redone and widened and it looks so pretty without oil spots lol.
*I tried looking for the website info but couldn’t find it.

Thanks! I changed my oil today and stayed with Mobil 1 Extended Performance full synthetic and the Motorcraft FL-500S filter, but I am curious about the Motorcraft full synthetic and will look into it more, it doesn't appear to be available in 5 quart jugs however, that's kind of a bummer. Thanks.

 

[dafish]

Guys, I dropped away from the oil arms race a few years ago so my knowledge isn't all that recent, but:

For sure LSPI is a different beast, and octane wasn't the solution. Or even the problem.

Yes, oil particles were found to be the cause of LSPI, something found to be unique to GTDI engines (only) and typically at very low RPM and under load. So yea, a Coyote, as an example, has no need for concern.

Yes, timing and AFR were initially looked at, but lots of studies showed the problem was oil particles in the combustion chamber flashing. As I recall the detergents in common oils was the problem. In more detail as I recall one detergent (phospour or maybe calcium) was the primary trigger, and there as another component that was found to be an accelerant. It wouldn't trigger, but if present it made LSPI much worse.

A change in detergents, moving to magnesium or something similar (been too long), and cutting way down or eliminating the old "cheaper" detergents was proven to stop LSPI. The result was API SN+, basically an interim standard until SM was approved.

There are lots of link to oil MFGs on these topics, it's not hard to find. Back in '19-20 it was relatively easy to find research results on the issue as well.

Last I knew, and I've not looked recently, Ford still had LSPI AFR and timing retard tables in Ecoboosts, and I'm not sure I blame them. Even today guys still don't know what LSPI is, when it's a concern, and how to avoid it. Timing and AFR can't avoid it, but it does minimize it, so....

This of course robs low-end torque and MPG, but I don't think Ford had much choice. Or Kia, Hyundai, GM, etc....

Today I don't believe we can read a VOA or even a used OA and gain enough knowledge. Chemisty is just to advanced. PP is hydrocracking molecular alignment for gods sake, we've nano particles coming into existence, and additives Polaris and Blackstone aren't even tracking.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm better versed on this than most guys and I believe knowing the oil standards is now the single best way to select an oil.

I would add that US owners manuals are now written for children. Most non US automobiles still spec different oil weights for different climates. Ergo I'm standards based, but pretty willing to seek higher viscosity for engines I work hot, and/or lower ones for engines that can get cold started at -10F. Like will happen today!

Thus 0W-40 API-SP is my engine oil of choice. YMMV, and if mileage is of primary concern a 5-30 with an ILSAC-6a rating would be your cup of tea.

 

[Samson16]

Guys, I dropped away from the oil arms race a few years ago so my knowledge isn't all that recent, but:

For sure LSPI is a different beast, and octane wasn't the solution. Or even the problem.

Yes, oil particles were found to be the cause of LSPI, something found to be unique to GTDI engines (only) and typically at very low RPM and under load. So yea, a Coyote, as an example, has no need for concern.

Yes, timing and AFR were initially looked at, but lots of studies showed the problem was oil particles in the combustion chamber flashing. As I recall the detergents in common oils was the problem. In more detail as I recall one detergent (phospour or maybe calcium) was the primary trigger, and there as another component that was found to be an accelerant. It wouldn't trigger, but if present it made LSPI much worse.

A change in detergents, moving to magnesium or something similar (been too long), and cutting way down or eliminating the old "cheaper" detergents was proven to stop LSPI. The result was API SN+, basically an interim standard until SM was approved.

There are lots of link to oil MFGs on these topics, it's not hard to find. Back in '19-20 it was relatively easy to find research results on the issue as well.

Last I knew, and I've not looked recently, Ford still had LSPI AFR and timing retard tables in Ecoboosts, and I'm not sure I blame them. Even today guys still don't know what LSPI is, when it's a concern, and how to avoid it. Timing and AFR can't avoid it, but it does minimize it, so....

This of course robs low-end torque and MPG, but I don't think Ford had much choice. Or Kia, Hyundai, GM, etc....

Today I don't believe we can read a VOA or even a used OA and gain enough knowledge. Chemisty is just to advanced. PP is hydrocracking molecular alignment for gods sake, we've nano particles coming into existence, and additives Polaris and Blackstone aren't even tracking.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm better versed on this than most guys and I believe knowing the oil standards is now the single best way to select an oil.

I would add that US owners manuals are now written for children. Most non US automobiles still spec different oil weights for different climates. Ergo I'm standards based, but pretty willing to seek higher viscosity for engines I work hot, and/or lower ones for engines that can get cold started at -10F. Like will happen today!

Thus 0W-40 API-SP is my engine oil of choice. YMMV, and if mileage is of primary concern a 5-30 with an ILSAC-6a rating would be your cup of tea.

Less confusing and or competing standards would be helpful. Decipher this:

GF-6/SP/RC/SN PLUS

 

[dafish]

OK, but you might just be better off following my suggestions...

GF-6: There are two of them (A and B). ILSAC is a euro licensing body. Sort of like GM Dexos. GF-6a has advanced wear, sludge etc, but includes RC (Resource Conserving) as a baseline. They are also viscosity limited.

SN+: I've already said it was an interim API spec intended solely to meet LSPI problems, and since superceeded by SM and now SP. More importantly, the API's don't have viscosity caps on them like a GF-6A, or any RC oil, does. They are a more performance oriented spec vs a mpg spec.

They can co-exist of course. A lower viscosity SP may well also meet GF-6A. A higher viscosity SP, ones I use, cannot, for any 40W is outside the bounds of RC as defined, and GF-6A.

And yes, I get your point. Yet reading a VOA is both more complicated and less helpful relative to todays advanced formulas. Nor could most guys read a Virgin Oil Analysis anyway. Again, oils have become pretty complicated. I suggest you know your engine, know your wants, and pick the standard that best accomplishes same.

A guy that drives his truck as a DD, doesn't tow heavy, and isn't in frigid winters would do well with a GF-6A spec 5w-30 (for an Eco). Mine is part DD, part tow truck, and is getting started in -12f just today. I'm better off protecting the engine and caring not about 1/10th of a mpg. Hence I shop for 0W-40 SP.

Better: Standards, now including sludge, wear, etc, remove the uncertainty. pick your viscosity needs, align to your industry standard, and pretty much any qualifying oil will be just fine. In my case darn good.

Finally, push come to shove, if you can afford it any group IV and V oil is simply superior. Period. Redline or Amsoils top end (they now also make meh oils too) are by and large very very good oils. Amsoil in particular doesn't pay licening fee's, so they're unlikely to be ILSAC rated. But if they had an SP in the viscosity I wanted, and I wanted spend the money, it would be a superior oil.

So when all is said and done one:

Selects what group oil they want
Seeks the viscosity needed
Looks for the relevant industry standard.

Oils are so good now I no longer worry about group levels, but I am cognizant that a "full synthetic" is mostly BS marketing. Save for Penzoil's NG treatment and the aforementioned real group IV"s and V's.

Anyway, I've met my quota for oil discussion. Hopefully I've helped somehow.

ATB,

-d

 

[Samson16]

OK, but you might just be better off following my suggestions...

GF-6: There are two of them (A and B). ILSAC is a euro licensing body. Sort of like GM Dexos. GF-6a has advanced wear, sludge etc, but includes RC (Resource Conserving) as a baseline. They are also viscosity limited.

SN+: I've already said it was an interim API spec intended solely to meet LSPI problems, and since superceeded by SM and now SP. More importantly, the API's don't have viscosity caps on them like a GF-6A, or any RC oil, does. They are a more performance oriented spec vs a mpg spec.

They can co-exist of course. A lower viscosity SP may well also meet GF-6A. A higher viscosity SP, ones I use, cannot, for any 40W is outside the bounds of RC as defined, and GF-6A.

And yes, I get your point. Yet reading a VOA is both more complicated and less helpful relative to todays advanced formulas. Nor could most guys read a Virgin Oil Analysis anyway. Again, oils have become pretty complicated. I suggest you know your engine, know your wants, and pick the standard that best accomplishes same.

A guy that drives his truck as a DD, doesn't tow heavy, and isn't in frigid winters would do well with a GF-6A spec 5w-30 (for an Eco). Mine is part DD, part tow truck, and is getting started in -12f just today. I'm better off protecting the engine and caring not about 1/10th of a mpg. Hence I shop for 0W-40 SP.

Better: Standards, now including sludge, wear, etc, remove the uncertainty. pick your viscosity needs, align to your industry standard, and pretty much any qualifying oil will be just fine. In my case darn good.

Finally, push come to shove, if you can afford it any group IV and V oil is simply superior. Period. Redline or Amsoils top end (they now also make meh oils too) are by and large very very good oils. Amsoil in particular doesn't pay licening fee's, so they're unlikely to be ILSAC rated. But if they had an SP in the viscosity I wanted, and I wanted spend the money, it would be a superior oil.

So when all is said and done one:

Selects what group oil they want
Seeks the viscosity needed
Looks for the relevant industry standard.

Oils are so good now I no longer worry about group levels, but I am cognizant that a "full synthetic" is mostly BS marketing. Save for Penzoil's NG treatment and the aforementioned real group IV"s and V's.

Anyway, I've met my quota for oil discussion. Hopefully I've helped somehow.

ATB,

-d

Thank you and yes your expertise in the area is helpful.

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