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PowerBoost 1.5 - We Need More Than Idiot Lights

Shane150

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Great work on your dashboard 👍
It might help answer your excellent questions if you purchase a voltmeter and measure across the battery posts under different conditions. Vehicle off will give you a good idea of the static charge. My observation with the PB is that vehicle on readings are algorithm dependent based on a number of factors. Fan on step 5 or higher is a famous example lol.
Thank you! This is a few days ago when truck was switched off.

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Snakebitten

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I don't respond to that power alarm because it's going to go off (and does) everytime I open the app with the truck not running.

Unless I set it so low that it's meaningless to go off? Lol

Besides, I launch the app manually and am viewing it myself, so no reason for a background notification.
I don't leave the app running in the background much at all.
 

Shane150

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Then let me ask you this. What are the battery thresholds for PB? In particular, at what percentage it is considered charged and at what percentage there is cause for concern?
 

Snakebitten

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Then let me ask you this. What are the battery thresholds for PB? In particular, at what percentage it is considered charged and at what percentage there is cause for concern?
Depends on who's consideration. :)

My consideration is that my AGM battery is NEVER fully charged because it can't hold a full (100% SOC) charge, statically speaking.

And then you have the issue of what IS the correct SOC values for a 12V AGM battery?
Consider 2 charts that obviously don't agree:

Ford F-150 PowerBoost 1.5 - We Need More Than Idiot Lights 212a750ecaad1e97e82d437f76aa6068


Ford F-150 PowerBoost 1.5 - We Need More Than Idiot Lights state-of-charge-chart-for-agm-battery


By the way, the App for the Bluetooth voltmeter appears to align closer to the second chart.

And then there's Ford's BMS algorithm for SOC, and I would describe it as proprietary because it isn't consistent with either chart. However, I don't think it matters as much that it doesn't align perfectly with the charts because Ford isn't declaring the SOC to the driver. It's not intended to be displayed and used as a standalone declaration. Rather it is an integer/value that is part of a FAR more complex algorithm than I believe most think.
Or put another way, I think most would be stunned by the complexity and the quantity of code at play in the 12V battery charging strategy.

So I'll answer the question in a different way......

If I were to purchase a brand new AGM of good quality, and then fully charge it properly (smart charge, so to speak) before installing it, reset the BMS so that it is allowing that charging algorithm to use "new battery" coding,...... And I didn't change how I currently use my Powerboost....... I believe my battery would be at a .2-.3 higher x voltage, Where X is 12.X
Or put another way, it would increase the static resting voltage of my battery and raise the SOC by 10-20%

But I also believe with the nature of the Powerboost charging strategy, that eventually the BMS will drag that battery down to where it sits today.

I just don't know how long that is until I do so and find out for myself.

I personally think Ford's oem battery supplier for the Powerboost isn't producing the best batteries. If that's true, then I think it's fair to expect a longer life for the replacement battery compared to this oem battery that I have to intervene on occasion and pump life into externally.
 

Shane150

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I really appreciate the time and effort you place in answering my questions! Means a lot! This year I will not be driving the truck much and the winter is around the corner. It will be interesting to see how this AGM will react when temperature deeps below -4F! For now I will monitor and intervene when it starts getting close to 12V.
 

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Mash150

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And exit stage left :ROFLMAO:
 

Shane150

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Most of us are in the same boat and that is why we come here. To talk trucks until the end of time!! 😎
 

Atlee

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Depends on who's consideration. :)

My consideration is that my AGM battery is NEVER fully charged because it can't hold a full (100% SOC) charge, statically speaking.

And then you have the issue of what IS the correct SOC values for a 12V AGM battery?
Consider 2 charts that obviously don't agree:

212a750ecaad1e97e82d437f76aa6068.jpg


state-of-charge-chart-for-agm-battery.png


By the way, the App for the Bluetooth voltmeter appears to align closer to the second chart.

And then there's Ford's BMS algorithm for SOC, and I would describe it as proprietary because it isn't consistent with either chart. However, I don't think it matters as much that it doesn't align perfectly with the charts because Ford isn't declaring the SOC to the driver. It's not intended to be displayed and used as a standalone declaration. Rather it is an integer/value that is part of a FAR more complex algorithm than I believe most think.
Or put another way, I think most would be stunned by the complexity and the quantity of code at play in the 12V battery charging strategy.

So I'll answer the question in a different way......

If I were to purchase a brand new AGM of good quality, and then fully charge it properly (smart charge, so to speak) before installing it, reset the BMS so that it is allowing that charging algorithm to use "new battery" coding,...... And I didn't change how I currently use my Powerboost....... I believe my battery would be at a .2-.3 higher x voltage, Where X is 12.X
Or put another way, it would increase the static resting voltage of my battery and raise the SOC by 10-20%

But I also believe with the nature of the Powerboost charging strategy, that eventually the BMS will drag that battery down to where it sits today.

I just don't know how long that is until I do so and find out for myself.

I personally think Ford's oem battery supplier for the Powerboost isn't producing the best batteries. If that's true, then I think it's fair to expect a longer life for the replacement battery compared to this oem battery that I have to intervene on occasion and pump life into externally.
RE: The complexity and quantity of code. Do you think it's necessary, or is it sort of over thinking by Ford engineers.
 

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RE: The complexity and quantity of code. Do you think it's necessary, or is it sort of over thinking by Ford engineers.
Both. 😊

Same thing we consumers of European vehicles (motorcycle and car) have accused those manufacturers of far longer, (farther back) than Ford.

The never ending pursuit for efficiency is the catalyst for such things. Ford started doing this super granular battery management with the advent of the first line of Ecoboost engines. The Ecoboost trademark is the name they gave to a platform of motors that would pursue fuel efficiency with a very granular (complex) torque based engine management system. Included in that pursuit for efficiency they are leaving no stone (load on fuel consumption) unturned.

A couple of examples:
It lead to turning alternators on/off to eliminate the "load" of generating charging voltage on the crankshaft.
It lead to variable pressure oil pumps to reduce pumping load on the crankshaft.

Right or wrong, it's just the pursuit to burn less fuel. And I agree with most that it's not necessarily a good return on investment for the consumer, since it adds complexity/expense to the product that just might not be worth the teeny tiny fuel savings.
 

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ReverendQ

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Howdy @Shane150 , I believe I followed your thoughts regarding the 12, er 14, or 12.6 or 100% or 50% battery and so I feel compelled to add my two cents in an attempt to help clarify a couple of things.

The common automobile battery is a 12.6VDC and commonly referred to the rounded down 12V battery . The "14V" title on the OBD Link dashboards above is just that, a title. However, the 12VDC battery may be connected to a charging circuit (i.e. alternator) that is at say 14VDC to charge said battery. In our trucks, 14VDC is common charging voltage (I won't go into current).

SOC is per its PID, an estimate in my dashboard. However, as @Snakebitten points out, its the one to watch.

I will be providing another update to post #136 of this thread with some improvements and clarifications. After reading your thoughts I will most likely rewrite the abbreviated "14V" call outs consistent with the associate PIDs or maybe just "battery".

And call the 280V battery something else also since to my understanding its actually a 430VDC battery, I think?! Anyway, probably will call it "Hybrid" battery going forward.

If you are an Android user with a MY23, watch #136 for an update. If you are an Apple Biter with a MY23 then I would encourage you to try my next iteration and let me know how well it works on an iPhone. Stay tuned (I didn't use the word "tuned" as in the Livernois sense...gotta love the American language.)
 

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imnuts

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Thanks @turbopilot for putting the dashboard together. I finally got around to downloading it and setting up the app on my new phone and then switching the items to match my '21. I think I'm going to move things around and edit it to my liking, but you're dashboard is a great start.

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imnuts

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Something interesting I noticed this morning, the Torque PID only works when the engine is on. If you're cruising in electric only mode, even if you're delivering power, it stays at 0 until the engine kicks on.

I also need to fix a few things after seeing it on my drive this morning, but I had some time yesterday evening and customized my display.

Ford F-150 PowerBoost 1.5 - We Need More Than Idiot Lights 1000007143
 

Atlee

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Something interesting I noticed this morning, the Torque PID only works when the engine is on. If you're cruising in electric only mode, even if you're delivering power, it stays at 0 until the engine kicks on.

I also need to fix a few things after seeing it on my drive this morning, but I had some time yesterday evening and customized my display.

1000007143.png
What device do you have those PIDs on? Tablet? Seems like they would be way too small to fit on a phone.
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