Potential future EV credit changes [NO POLITICS]

[Dadofjax]

Most non-Union car companies pay close to the same amount per hour to their employees. It's one of the ways they keep the Union out of their factories.

The amounts for Union and non-Union have absolutely nothing to do with the amount of money spent on labor to assemble the vehicle. It's Democrats pandering to their base.

Unions workers over the last few years have started to trend away from Democrats. The union leadership on the other hand has trended towards the radical left and that is who is making these laws and the union leadership will see the kickbacks not the workers.

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[ShirBlackspots]

Also, this also removes the cap placed on sales of EV (it was 200,000 vehicles), so Tesla can at least get the $8000 credit again.

 

[bboy_72]

Yeah, the overall amount is definitely generous.

Tesla has gotten a ton of credits because they’ve sold tons more EVs than anyone else, which is *supposedly* the point.

That said, GM used all their credits, too.

If union workers get paid more, ok, maybe they’re trying to level the playing field a bit, but $4500 per car? Are union workers paid $4500 *per car* better than non-union? That seems outrageous.

It rewards companies that allow unions. It’s a good thing.

 

[bboy_72]

Got it, so not “incorrect” since the data was accurate and I didn’t actually say anything that was anti-union.

I suggested the difference between union and non-union (but still US) was too high, and if the goal is supporting US workers, then the difference between US non-union vs foreign assembly is too low.

Unions can absolutely be good, but $4500 seems like a huge number not actually based on the reality of how much more union members get paid vs non-union per vehicle, but just a chance to legislate money to the big 3 and unions at the expense of taxpayers and other US auto workers.

It’s not that I think unions are inherently bad, it’s that I question the $4500 (more than a 50% increase to the total credit) given to certain companies and US workers instead of other Us companies and US workers that get $0, same as a foreign company would.

If instead of $4500 it was $100,000, would it be “anti-union sentiment” to suggest that’s a ridiculous amount? No, questioning the value of a tax credit, especially a big one that chooses some US workers over other US workers is not inherently “anti-union sentiment”.

It’s not choosing some workers over other workers, it’s choosing some companies over other companies. It’s favoring companies that permit unionization of their workers. Go get bent.

 

[Blainestang]

Most non-Union car companies pay close to the same amount per hour to their employees. It's one of the ways they keep the Union out of their factories.

The amounts for Union and non-Union have absolutely nothing to do with the amount of money spent on labor to assemble the vehicle. It's Democrats pandering to their base.

I assumed union may pay somewhat more when you include benefits and such, but the $4500 didn’t pass the sniff test.

 

[bboy_72]

I assumed union may pay somewhat more when you include benefits and such, but the $4500 didn’t pass the sniff test.

UAW all the way. I'm an independent, and I support my brethren.

 

[bboy_72]

Unions workers over the last few years have started to trend away from Democrats. The union leadership on the other hand has trended towards the radical left and that is who is making these laws and the union leadership will see the kickbacks not the workers.

I could give a rip what political party your Aunt Minnie or anyone else supprts. I support the union brothers.

 

[Blainestang]

It rewards companies that allow unions. It’s a good thing.

Another strawman. I didn’t say it was an *inherently* bad thing.

I’m questioning the amount relative to other US companies and vs foreign companies.

If Ford announced the Lightning at $150,000, and I say, I think that’s too much, does that mean I’m anti-Ford or anti-Lightning? No. It means I’m questioning the amount.

If the credit for union manufacturers was 10x higher at $45,000 per car, the sentiment could be “a good thing”, but I feel like even union-workers could agree that the *amount* is too high.

 

[Dadofjax]

I could give a rip what political party your Aunt Minnie or anyone else supprts. I support the union brothers.

I didn't reply to you or give any political affiliation just stated a couple facts about unions.

 

[bboy_72]

Another strawman. I didn’t say it was an *inherently* bad thing.

I’m questioning the amount relative to other US companies and vs foreign companies.

If Ford announced the Lightning at $150,000, and I say, I think that’s too much, does that mean I’m anti-Ford or anti-Lightning? No. It means I’m questioning the amount.

If the credit for union manufacturers was 10x higher at $45,000 per car, the sentiment could be “a good thing”, but I feel like even union-workers could agree that the *amount* is too high.

It shows what poor perspective on dollar amounts you have. Amazon netted 21.3 BILLION dollars in profits last year all on the backs of basically sweatshops they run- $4500 is molecular in comparison. Get over it and move on.

 

[Silenze]

Why are we giving tax credits for vehicles made in other countries? Why are we subsidizing these corporations that send good paying American jobs overseas

 

[bboy_72]

Why are we giving tax credits for vehicles made in other countries? Why are we subsidizing these corporations that send good paying American jobs overseas

That is a good question. Is the push for EV’s so great that it is more important than this consideration?

 

[Silenze]

That is a good question. Is the push for EV’s so great that it is more important than this consideration?

No need for incentives we already have a mandate.
President Biden, surrounded by labor and business leaders from the American auto industry, signed an executive order on Thursday setting a national goal to have half of all new vehicles sold by 2030 be electric. Aug 9, 2021

 

[Blainestang]

It shows what poor perspective on dollar amounts you have. Amazon netted 21.3 BILLION dollars in profits last year all on the backs of basically sweatshops they run- $4500 is molecular in comparison. Get over it and move on.

Wow, another strawman. I’m not saying don’t spend the money. I’m saying the amount breakdown doesn’t make sense.

The old breakdown made *more* sense, IMO, for instance.

$12,500 for US Production and Union
$10,500 for US Production non-union
$7,500 for foreign production

 

[sotek2345]

No need for incentives we already have a mandate.
President Biden, surrounded by labor and business leaders from the American auto industry, signed an executive order on Thursday setting a national goal to have half of all new vehicles sold by 2030 be electric. Aug 9, 2021

I think you need both. Incentives to encourage investment in the technology in the near term and the mandate for the long term. Without the incentive, companies and customers would just wait until it was too late. You need a ramp.

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