Potential future EV credit changes [NO POLITICS]

Blainestang

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I’m not sure I’ll change your mind, or even if it’s a legitimate reason, but Biden made a campaign promise to help create well paid unionized jobs, and that’s exactly what this legislation will do.
Thanks.

That, of course, I explains why he would support it, but I don’t think it’s the best way to support US EV jobs in general (subsidizing certain US jobs 50% more than others).

If union auto jobs pay more, then maybe it could make sense to subsidize those proportionally, but the $4500 number is way too high, IMO, and if US jobs are the goal, then why do non-union US EVs get the same credit as foreign-made EVs?

IMO, the old numbers made more sense if good US jobs are actually the goal:

$12,500 for Union US
$10,000 for non-Union US
$7,500 for foreign-built

I don’t support such a huge advantage for unions only at the expense of other US manufacturing jobs. The advantage is too big.
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shutterbug

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My plans are to order and take delivery of a Lightning I can afford without consideration of any Federal/State tax credits for purchase and/or utility rebates for charging equipment.

My order (date unknown) will be an iconic silver Lightning Pro with black running boards (non-negotiable with my wife) as the only option.

I believe whenever my reservation becomes an order, Ford will surpass the 200K EVs produced and Congress will pass no new legislation for EV buyers.

Don’t count on anything, best to keep expectations reasonable.

Life taught me better to be happily surprised than terribly disappointed.
Fully agree. Just one point. I don't think that running boards are available with the Pro. Hopefully, there will be running boards available as after market add on. But, perhaps, not right away.
 

thevofl

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I was considering the Platinum strictly for the Max Recline seats for sleeping while charging on longer road trips, although it will mainly be a work truck. Basically I was justifying it as a part work truck part luxury vehicle since the lay-flat seats seemed like a must have for long trips. I didn’t want the huge wheels & didn’t want the booming sound system & could pass on many other parts of Platinum but not those seats. If this passes though and Platinum isn’t eligible for it and I can only get the seats with Platinum, I’ll seriously downsell myself because I can’t pass up this rebate if it is phased out on higher end trucks, it’s simply non negotiable - I won’t pass up the rebate. I’ll go with a much more modest Lightning, invest the rest, and hope to sell or trade in the truck down the road when those seats & other options are available in lower trims, like on the King Ranch hybrid F150 where you can get those seats on that trim. Or just wait for the Gen 2 Lightning to trade in my compromise 1st gen Lightning.
I am nearly 100% in agreement with you. There are many times I need to pull over and take a nap. Those seats are what's drawing me to the Platinum. My first truck in over 20 years is chosen for my comfort, but the rebate is calling to me. I guess it's just a wait and see.
 
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Do you really think you'll need to take a 30-45 minute nap while charging on a long trip? Something that won't happen but a few times a year.
[/QUOTE]

Sure. Everyone uses their vehicle differently. For one, my girlfriend doesn’t drive, or drives very rarely (anxiety) and a big truck will probably not help that, BlueCruise or not, so I am The Driver. I’d estimate our road trips up and down the coast at at least 6 a year, some of them from the SF Bay Area to Oregon or Washington, and we wouldn’t mind doing a tour of the southwest at some point too. I might be shuttling tools, materials, furniture, what have you from a rental place in Oregon to & from the SF Bay, so potentially it could be more trips than that. Not sure about towing yet but I’m sure that would increase the number of stops.

As for the ready availability of chargers that will reliably give you a fast charge, not to mention if you’re towing anything, I’m cautious. The network will expand, but so will the number of people demanding chargers, and who knows how that will balance out for any given trip? I’m going from stories like this where the Mach E had a lot of trouble on the Electrify America network. There could be situations where I’m stuck at a Level 2 charger for a long time. Marques Brownlee, Mach E vs Model S Plaid vs. ICE car
 

shutterbug

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I’m going from stories like this where the Mach E had a lot of trouble on the Electrify America network.
I think most of these stories are from the first couple of months of MME's trying it. The situation has improved a great deal since then. Whether this was improved by EA or Ford or both, I don't know. I am pretty sure that Ford is learning from MME experience and Lightning will do better from the start.
 

Sapphire

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Are naps tough to take in the non-max recline seats? No sarcasm here, I just have not owned a F-150 before, so haven’t had experience with the two seat types. Based on all the videos I’ve seen, I got the sense the max recline seats were more comfortable, but it wasn’t a massive difference. Besides, your legs are still bent regardless of which ones you have, so it’s still somewhat weird.

@Maxx was asking in another thread about whether the interior width might work to lay down on the floor in the rear. I’m curious about that too, regarding what folks do for overlanding and staying in the cab. That sounds more comfortable for a serious nap. For how I plan to use the truck, I don’t think I’ll nap in the truck, but it’s fun to think about.
 
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Are naps tough to take in the non-max recline seats? No sarcasm here, I just have not owned a F-150 before, so haven’t had experience with the two seat types. Based on all the videos I’ve seen, I got the sense the max recline seats were more comfortable, but it wasn’t a massive difference. Besides, your legs are still bent regardless of which ones you have, so it’s still somewhat weird.

None taken, valid questions/points. It’s going to be hard to convince a sales guy in a suit to let me try out a few different seats in my pajamas with my teddy bear and my favorite blankie lol. I think the passenger could have some kind of platform with a pillow for their legs but the driver would have legs bent unless you’re around 5’ or so. (?). These kinds of concerns get a little more important as you get older though. I could get in a 1992 Escort at age 20 and crank out 1000+ miles of driving in a day when I was 20, but there was a lot of caffeine and whatever they used to sell over the counter at truck stops involved. These days I usually need a nap at hour 6 or so.
 

Silenze

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Are naps tough to take in the non-max recline seats? No sarcasm here, I just have not owned a F-150 before, so haven’t had experience with the two seat types. Based on all the videos I’ve seen, I got the sense the max recline seats were more comfortable, but it wasn’t a massive difference. Besides, your legs are still bent regardless of which ones you have, so it’s still somewhat weird.

@Maxx was asking in another thread about whether the interior width might work to lay down on the floor in the rear. I’m curious about that too, regarding what folks do for overlanding and staying in the cab. That sounds more comfortable for a serious nap. For how I plan to use the truck, I don’t think I’ll nap in the truck, but it’s fun to think about.
Yes the headrests are super annoying. They are tilted forward and super hard. I can't recline my seat anyway because of a rear facing car set. I jam a pillow between the headrest and the window. I can get about 15min before i wake up because it's just not comfortable
 

Diabolical!

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To get completely away from the ridiculous politics and union tit-for-tat, I do see a major problem with this plan if it reaches implementation. Look at what is going on with the resale of Broncos right now. People are taking delivery and flipping their Broncos immediately on Ebay for tens of thousands of dollars in profit. The legislation needs to say that in order to be eligible for the tax credit (or rebate), the buyer must agree to be the only registered owner of the vehicle for a predetermined amount of time (maybe two years?). If you sell or trade the vehicle before then, you are on the hook for the tax credit you received. This way, the legislation has the intended effect. Otherwise, you will see people flipping their $27,500 Lightning Pros all over Ebay for $40,000+, and who could blame them?
 

sotek2345

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To get completely away from the ridiculous politics and union tit-for-tat, I do see a major problem with this plan if it reaches implementation. Look at what is going on with the resale of Broncos right now. People are taking delivery and flipping their Broncos immediately on Ebay for tens of thousands of dollars in profit. The legislation needs to say that in order to be eligible for the tax credit (or rebate), the buyer must agree to be the only registered owner of the vehicle for a predetermined amount of time (maybe two years?). If you sell or trade the vehicle before then, you are on the hook for the tax credit you received. This way, the legislation has the intended effect. Otherwise, you will see people flipping their $27,500 Lightning Pros all over Ebay for $40,000+, and who could blame them?
While in general I agree (from a sense of fairness) - if the goal is to get people to drive EVs, does it really matter who is doing that driving?
 

Sgt Beavis

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Yes the headrests are super annoying. They are tilted forward and super hard. I can't recline my seat anyway because of a rear facing car set. I jam a pillow between the headrest and the window. I can get about 15min before i wake up because it's just not comfortable

^^^THIS^^^
But in fairness to the F150, the headrest on most cars are not conducive to taking a nap. I always need some sort of neck support when sleeping in a vehicle.

I do appreciate what Ford is doing with the max recline seats. It seems to me that Ford is doing more in seat development than most other OEMs. The seats that Lincoln uses are absolutely amazing.
 

adoublee

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On the used vehicle credit - I wonder if this is uncaptured when a lease is turned in, but available to the dealer if they buy the vehicle at lease end.
 

Nick Gerteis

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Are naps tough to take in the non-max recline seats? No sarcasm here, I just have not owned a F-150 before, so haven’t had experience with the two seat types. Based on all the videos I’ve seen, I got the sense the max recline seats were more comfortable, but it wasn’t a massive difference. Besides, your legs are still bent regardless of which ones you have, so it’s still somewhat weird.

@Maxx was asking in another thread about whether the interior width might work to lay down on the floor in the rear. I’m curious about that too, regarding what folks do for overlanding and staying in the cab. That sounds more comfortable for a serious nap. For how I plan to use the truck, I don’t think I’ll nap in the truck, but it’s fun to think about.
I think it’s 60 inches inside width. I’ll definitely try and jam a air mattress in there and get some actual sleep!
 

sotek2345

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I think it’s 60 inches inside width. I’ll definitely try and jam a air mattress in there and get some actual sleep!
during a 30 to 40 minute charging session, do you really think you will have time to get an air mattress inflated and situation and get any actual sleep in?
 
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during a 30 to 40 minute charging session,
“during a 30 to 40 minute charging session*”

* During a 30-40 minute charging session where Electrify America has enough available, functional charging points operating at full capacity, and/or Elon Musk keeps his word and opens up the Supercharger network”

there, I fixed it . . .
 
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