Plug-in Powerboost

[DarkSkyForever]

I truly believe the reason we didn't get a bigger battery and e-motor was so it didn't cut into Lightning sales.

Agreed. A PHEV F150 would be a KILLER vehicle. Give me a truck with a 40 mile battery range that can be charged over night on a 15 amp circuit, please.

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[EricR]

In addition to our PB we own a 2016 Fusion Hybrid. We initially wanted the plugin Fusion Energi - until we saw the battery took up about 2/3 of trunk.

So we settled on the hybrid where the battery only takes up 1/3 of the trunk.

An F150 plug-in would be fantastic! I just wonder where that extra battery would go?

-Eric

 

[thudnblunder]

First off let me say I am thrilled with the increased MPG I'm getting with my PB. I also hope that down the road bigger batteries become available. BUT! A bigger battery alone will not give a huge increase. They would also have to increase the HP of the electric motor. It is only a 47 HP Motor. The electric mode requires that the battery have a high enough charge and the electric motor have sufficient power to handle the load required. I think mileage would go up with a bigger battery but not as much as some people think.

I drive a lot of rolling hills. Many times just cruising along at moderate speeds my powerboost will kick into electric as it hits a downhill and kick right back to ICE a couple seconds later as the next uphill starts. This has nothing to do with the battery charge, everything to do with the motor not producing enough power to get up the hill with out the ICE. It still gives an assist to the ICE but isn't a big boost to MPG.

I'm not an engineer but put a 150HP motor, 40-50 KW battery and a plug in and people who actually use their truck as a truck would be thrilled.

I suspect we will see after market mods to accomplish just this in a few years.

 

[FrankThompson]

I'm a flatlander and when I'm running along on cruise control and the truck goes into EV mode, the amount of time it spends in EV mode is determined by how long it takes for the electric motor to draw the battery down to the SOC that Ford chooses not to go below.
So for discussions sake, let's say it ran in EV mode for 45 seconds.
Then if the battery was a 3KW battery, the truck would have stayed in EV mode for twice as long before reaching that same SOC.
At 6 KW battery, still tiny by Hybrid standards, it might cruise for 3 minutes straight in EV mode.

So in those kind of circumstances a bigger, but still small battery could have a HUGE impact on fuel mileage. Without changing anything else.

Obviously I am describing static load driving. "Cruising" at a speed that the existing motor is capable of sustaining.

It would run longer in electric but that electric isn't free. It would spend more time having to charge it back up. I wonder how much of that extra could be gained in regen braking which is the only "free" energy you're getting. The rest it's using gas to charge. Also curious how much the adds weight would affect it (probably not that much, but Im not sure).

I'm not saying the mileage wouldn't go up, but I'm not sure how much a batter 2 or 4 times as big would help, esp on flat land.

The beauty of the plugin is you get that energy from a cheaper source, your outlet.

I also never thought about needing a bigger electric motor if you wanted to do phev.

 

[mbouck3]

If Ford offered the Powerboost in F150 HDPP chassis, (they don't argggghh) they could increase the battery size significantly and still have room for a healthy 1/2 ton Payload capacity.
It would absolutely be a Lightning killer though. Think about it.

Don't get me wrong...... I would absolutely own one and it WOULD be the most amazing and versatile 1/2 ton in all the land. Can you imagine running in EV mode 3 or 4x's the percentage of the current Powerboost? Having 2000lbs of Cargo Capacity? And of course you have to have the 6.5' bed for HDPP chassis, so all the advantages of that when it comes to a towing platform.

What's so torturing to ponder is that it still wouldn't take a huge battery. Look what has been accomplished with that teeny tiny battery in the Powerboost. It's remarkably small. Isn't it 1.3 kw, or something like that?
So just give it a 10KW battery. Still 1/10th the Standard Lightning. Yet it could deliver that increase in EV mileage percentage by 3 or 4 fold.

Oh how I want one. A Powerboost almost exactly like the one I have except getting 35mpg or more.

I have a Honda clarity plug in and I will NEVER go back to a only Ice vehicle again. It has a 15 KWH battery and gets about 50 miles electric. Surprising what you can do on 50 miles and its a large car, bigger than a Accord.. Then charge it at home and go out again or just let it change over to hybrid at 50MPG. If the F150 had a 30KWH pack and a 100 HP motor that wood be a truck that's hard to beat

 

[780]

Who else thinks this would be the perfect bridge gap between ICE and EV?

I do 100% city driving daily and pull a TT on weekends. It’ll be a long time before the Lightning would work for my lifestyle without being a massive inconvenience, and judging by the discussions of range anxiety it won’t work for a lot of people quite yet. Powerboost is the ideal engine choice for me and many others, but the Powerboost just gets better mileage around town than a regular Ecoboost. It can’t be run on full EV.

Agreed. I have a similar use case as you do. A PHEV F150 with the HDPP (302a min) would have been the truck I would have ordered if if was available.

 

[VTbuckeye]

The f150 is big and heavy. To drive EV only it will need a sufficiently powerful electric motor. 150hp would probably be enough. Which wheels would it drive. The Volvo XC90 and xc60 phev drive the rear axle with the electric motor and the front wheels with a transverse inline 4 turbo/super charged engine. The transmission tunnel area contains the battery. Phev f150 could use the same setup if the rear electric motor is powerful enough. Also with a powerful motor you need bigger batteries because it uses more we electricity than a lower power motor and it is harder/more stressful for the battery to release a greater percent of its capacity over a short period of time. Another problem with phev vehicles is that most are not designed to be EV only. My Volvo loves to turn on the engine if it is remotely cold (high 40s to low 50s if unplugged all day at work). The engine rarely warms up. Long trips, yes it is gets up to operating temperature, but on most drives where it turns on (cold or for the last mile or two of a commute) it never gets warm (oil dilution???? with fuel and condensation). Anyone who then tells you to just drive longer than us necessary, burning fuel when it isn't really needed in order to warm up the engine properly can go F themselves. That is not the purpose of a phev. If you want to read more about this, check out the Jeep forums we ith the 4xe drivetrain and "FORM" (essentially an engine/oil maintenance process that in the cold takes away EV only operation due to fuel dilution concerns). The oil on my xc90 phev smelled like gasoline coming right out of the pump after 1650 winter miles and less than 20 gallons of fuel usage. (I am waiting for the Blackstone lab results). My current tank is averaging almost 200mpg, but in the winter it falls to maybe 50mpg with probably 5 to 10 cold starts per drive (direct injection and forced induction leads to cylinder walls being washed with fuel).

If they could make it with a big enough battery and a strong enough motor and a real EV only option that would only engage the engine upon wide open throttle, then a phev would be great. The Chevy volt drivetrain/concept was great, but most phev vehicles available now are HYBRID primarily with EV like operations possible if the right conditions are met. From May through late September I can spend most miles within those parameters, but it is frustrating October through April when the operations of the vehicle are slowly killing it (as designed).

 

[DEEPDOWN]

First off let me say I am thrilled with the increased MPG I'm getting with my PB. I also hope that down the road bigger batteries become available. BUT! A bigger battery alone will not give a huge increase. They would also have to increase the HP of the electric motor. It is only a 47 HP Motor. The electric mode requires that the battery have a high enough charge and the electric motor have sufficient power to handle the load required. I think mileage would go up with a bigger battery but not as much as some people think.

I drive a lot of rolling hills. Many times just cruising along at moderate speeds my powerboost will kick into electric as it hits a downhill and kick right back to ICE a couple seconds later as the next uphill starts. This has nothing to do with the battery charge, everything to do with the motor not producing enough power to get up the hill with out the ICE. It still gives an assist to the ICE but isn't a big boost to MPG.

I'm not an engineer but put a 150HP motor, 40-50 KW battery and a plug in and people who actually use their truck as a truck would be thrilled.

............... It is only a 47 HP Motor .... Grandpa: "in my day sonny, my Model T only had 22 TOTAL horsepower!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[HCFX]

The f150 is big and heavy. To drive EV only it will need a sufficiently powerful electric motor. 150hp would probably be enough. Which wheels would it drive. The Volvo XC90 and xc60 phev drive the rear axle with the electric motor and the front wheels with a transverse inline 4 turbo/super charged engine. The transmission tunnel area contains the battery. Phev f150 could use the same setup if the rear electric motor is powerful enough. Also with a powerful motor you need bigger batteries because it uses more we electricity than a lower power motor and it is harder/more stressful for the battery to release a greater percent of its capacity over a short period of time. Another problem with phev vehicles is that most are not designed to be EV only. My Volvo loves to turn on the engine if it is remotely cold (high 40s to low 50s if unplugged all day at work). The engine rarely warms up. Long trips, yes it is gets up to operating temperature, but on most drives where it turns on (cold or for the last mile or two of a commute) it never gets warm (oil dilution???? with fuel and condensation). Anyone who then tells you to just drive longer than us necessary, burning fuel when it isn't really needed in order to warm up the engine properly can go F themselves. That is not the purpose of a phev. If you want to read more about this, check out the Jeep forums we ith the 4xe drivetrain and "FORM" (essentially an engine/oil maintenance process that in the cold takes away EV only operation due to fuel dilution concerns). The oil on my xc90 phev smelled like gasoline coming right out of the pump after 1650 winter miles and less than 20 gallons of fuel usage. (I am waiting for the Blackstone lab results). My current tank is averaging almost 200mpg, but in the winter it falls to maybe 50mpg with probably 5 to 10 cold starts per drive (direct injection and forced induction leads to cylinder walls being washed with fuel).

If they could make it with a big enough battery and a strong enough motor and a real EV only option that would only engage the engine upon wide open throttle, then a phev would be great. The Chevy volt drivetrain/concept was great, but most phev vehicles available now are HYBRID primarily with EV like operations possible if the right conditions are met. From May through late September I can spend most miles within those parameters, but it is frustrating October through April when the operations of the vehicle are slowly killing it (as designed).

I have a similar problem currently with my 2022 F350 diesel. I didn't even think about it at the time but big modern diesel + short commute has become a massive inconvenience. I don't get any heat in the winter even if I warm it up for 25+ minutes and the particulate filter fills up and needs a blast up the highway every 4-5 days to complete a regeneration cycle properly. Not really working for me. Most of the time the truck sits on my driveway and I work from home or drive my other vehicle (also diesel, but no after treatment system) because I don't really feel like going on a 40+ minute highway run once a week if I don't have to. it's turned into a really expensive driveway ornament other than to haul my trailer. My toy hauler is a lot of trailer for an F-150 but a snack for a Superduty, and it seems I'd have been better off being at the top end of an F-150's capability for 5-7 tows a year in the interest of having a better daily driver the rest of the time.

There's many longevity questions to be raised about the Powerboost and it's duty cycles. 3.5L Ecoboosts aren't known for their shining timing chain/VCT reliability and you have to wonder how so many start/stop cycles will affect the longevity of the engine. It seems as though the 3.5 Ecoboost VCT failures have been happening earlier and earlier in the truck's life since they started coming equipped with auto start stop. Not saying that Auto SS is the root cause, but it sure is a coincidence.

I figured Hybrid would be the best bet for my short commute + long towing lifestyle as it would give me the best blend of short commute fuel economy but also range for towing. Short distance is no good for any ICE, so It would just be nice to be able to have a platform that allows you to get around the city without having the gas engine fire up for several days until you're actually going to run it for awhile. I'd rather have the gas engine fire, run for awhile and complete a full heat cycle than have it start and stop 50 times in the run of a day.

 

[VTbuckeye]

I have a similar problem currently with my 2022 F350 diesel. I didn't even think about it at the time but big modern diesel + short commute has become a massive inconvenience. I don't get any heat in the winter even if I warm it up for 25+ minutes and the particulate filter fills up and needs a blast up the highway every 4-5 days to complete a regeneration cycle properly. Not really working for me. Most of the time the truck sits on my driveway and I work from home or drive my other vehicle (also diesel, but no after treatment system) because I don't really feel like going on a 40+ minute highway run once a week if I don't have to. it's turned into a really expensive driveway ornament other than to haul my trailer. My toy hauler is a lot of trailer for an F-150 but a snack for a Superduty, and it seems I'd have been better off being at the top end of an F-150's capability for 5-7 tows a year in the interest of having a better daily driver the rest of the time.

There's many longevity questions to be raised about the Powerboost and it's duty cycles. 3.5L Ecoboosts aren't known for their shining timing chain/VCT reliability and you have to wonder how so many start/stop cycles will affect the longevity of the engine. It seems as though the 3.5 Ecoboost VCT failures have been happening earlier and earlier in the truck's life since they started coming equipped with auto start stop. Not saying that Auto SS is the root cause, but it sure is a coincidence.

I figured Hybrid would be the best bet for my short commute + long towing lifestyle as it would give me the best blend of short commute fuel economy but also range for towing. Short distance is no good for any ICE, so It would just be nice to be able to have a platform that allows you to get around the city without having the gas engine fire up for several days until you're actually going to run it for awhile. I'd rather have the gas engine fire, run for awhile and complete a full heat cycle than have it start and stop 50 times in the run of a day.

Our current vehicles are Volvo XC90 PHEV, Volvo xc40 EV (my wife loves it), and Toyota Tacoma. The Tacoma will be replaced with the Lightning that on I have on order. It's a bummer that you have such a nice driveway ornament and it isn't getting used frequently. The xc90 might become an expensive driveway ornament for us (though it is paid off, but would help cover the cost of the lightning). My wife is not convinced that EV for long traveling is going to be acceptable and the xc90 is great for that. We could sell that and the Tacoma but we really like having three cars (if one is getting fixed or is otherwise out of commission so what, we have another) and our kids are 10 and 12, so a third vehicle would be wanted in a few more years anyway. If done right (big battery, 150 to 200hp rear induction motor (not permanent magnet motor so that it could be flat towed), normally aspirated port injected 200-250hp engine (reduced fuel dilution when run cold/frequent stop/start) driving the front wheels and powering the generator) a phev f150 would be great, though I am not convinced any manufacturer will do it right.

 

[GolfR]

I like these ideas and agree that. Plug in would be handy. It might make sense to pair the 2.7EB instead of the 3.5EB if the electric HP was increased. That could save a little weight and maybe help the fuel efficiency a bit.

 

[HCFX]

Our current vehicles are Volvo XC90 PHEV, Volvo xc40 EV (my wife loves it), and Toyota Tacoma. The Tacoma will be replaced with the Lightning that on I have on order. It's a bummer that you have such a nice driveway ornament and it isn't getting used frequently. The xc90 might become an expensive driveway ornament for us (though it is paid off, but would help cover the cost of the lightning). My wife is not convinced that EV for long traveling is going to be acceptable and the xc90 is great for that. We could sell that and the Tacoma but we really like having three cars (if one is getting fixed or is otherwise out of commission so what, we have another) and our kids are 10 and 12, so a third vehicle would be wanted in a few more years anyway. If done right (big battery, 150 to 200hp rear induction motor (not permanent magnet motor so that it could be flat towed), normally aspirated port injected 200-250hp engine (reduced fuel dilution when run cold/frequent stop/start) driving the front wheels and powering the generator) a phev f150 would be great, though I am not convinced any manufacturer will do it right.

Like most, I'd still have to have a ICE truck if I went full EV as a second vehicle just due to the nature of it's use. I don't mind having a couple daily drivers to myself so that's not a problem for me, but as a swiss army knife type of do-it-all with no compromise vehicle you can't beat the idea of a PHEV F-150. As discussed though, If executed properly, the bridge gap between a FHEV truck and a full EV truck would be so perfect that they'd be competing with their own Powerboost and Lightning. Until EV technology progresses to a point of no compromise vs an ICE vehicle, a PHEV seems to be the best all-rounder for the vast majority. Surprising that more manufacturers didn't invest more time and resources into PHEV before jumping straight into full EV. The result is glaring drawbacks to full EV for a good portion of the population which I think is part of the reason EV is such a controversial subject in the automotive world.

 

[jeffcrum]

I believe plug in is crazy as designed.

The Powerboost had nothing to do with what plug ins do.

It is all about getting the best of ICE with an electric motor.

What most seem to be asking for is really a lightning with an ICE backup.

Just saying.

 

[darioa]

I think putting a big enough battery and the accompanying motor to convert the PB to a plugin means a sacrifice in payload. My PB has a 1328 lbs payload. When I tow a 6000 lbs trailer, and I add my wife, my dog, and I to the load, I only have 400 lbs left of payload. A decent plug-in battery could weigh over 1300 lbs. Ford would need to redesign the whole chassis to be able to carry it plus tow plus have some payload left. But doubling the power of the hybrid battery without increasing the weight much with new technology, would allow us to run on electric for longer times and thus increase our MPGs.

 

[Snakebitten]

Ford has an HDPP Chassis already that could increase the GVW enough for a large battery. But they have chosen so far to prohibit the Powerboost drivetrain on that chassis configuration.
You can have the 3.5 Ecoboost or the 5.0 Coyote.

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