Sponsored

Philosphy Behind Building the Current F-150 Powerboost Hybrid

don_wagner57

New member
Joined
Mar 25, 2022
Threads
2
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
Location
earth
Vehicles
F-150
In the current as-designed configuration for the hybrid powerboost vehicle in question, why were there no consideration for plug-in charging power versatility? After all, there are ports for plugging in and charging other hybrid vehicles built into the truck. Why not charge the F-150 battery that way at home?

Secondly, why is the battery capacity for the hybrid so small at a puny 1.5 KW. It stands to reason that stored electrical power produces less emissions and is easier, cheaper and safer to use than fossil fuel. The battery probably needs to double in size to be an effective aspect of vehicle performance.

During configuration design I wonder how the tradeoff's were conducted between engine size (mass and torque), battery size (energy density), and electric motor size (tractive effort ouput, mass).

It appears to be obvious that the addition of a battery and electric motor operation appeared almost as an after thought to an ordinary eco-boost F-150.

I have yet to see any Powerboost run any signigicant distance (10 miles or further) purely on battery power only. All electric operation is when drivers see a real fuel mileage improvement. I would expect more consumer demand for increased distance on battery only operation next generation.

The places where RV's go, and what they haul and trailer, make most "all-electric" vehicles impractical. Hence the need for a hybrid will always exist when high fuel costs continue.
Sponsored

 

Bluesman

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2022
Threads
4
Messages
390
Reaction score
413
Location
Iowa
Vehicles
1965 Factory Five MK IV Roadster, 2022 F150 Platty
The name says it all, it's about power, not saving the planet.

The new Tundra is the same concept.
 

Jeff1024

Well-known member
First Name
Jeff
Joined
Nov 18, 2021
Threads
14
Messages
354
Reaction score
387
Location
Louisville, KY
Vehicles
2022 F150
The PowerBoost is all about marketing the onboard Generator, Extra HP and Extra torque. As you noted the battery and electric motor are too small to make a significant difference in MPG in a heavy truck shaped like a brick. I have heard the electric motor will keep the truck out of boost for a bit longer when going up a hill for instance, but in the end the turbos are going to spool to make power.

It's a cool proof of concept for the technology. I would expect the second gen to continue to improve on the design. I do like the idea of being able to run the A/C with only the battery, but as you can see in my sig I ordered a normal 3.5 EcoBoost with plans to order the PowerBoost in a few years as the battery tech improves.
 

jcaspar

Well-known member
First Name
Jeff
Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
445
Reaction score
414
Location
Sacramento CA
Vehicles
2021 F-150 4x4
Bigger battery would mean less payload which is low enough already. I don't think that would work. I agree about the plug in aspect. Would like it mainly as it would get me carpool lane stickers here in California!
This is a totally different concept than a car like the Prius. WIth the Prius they put in the smallest possible engine that could just get by with the electric motor. Ford took their most powerful motor and ADDED an electric motor to increase power and torque (oh, and mileage too). Glad they did it this way! When I was getting my Powerboost in Feb, 2001, the Toyota Tundra had 35 less hp and nearly HALF the mpg in town. And no generator. Not a tough decision...
 

jfried

Well-known member
First Name
Jason
Joined
Jan 9, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
197
Reaction score
127
Location
Ontario, Canada
Vehicles
Lightning Reserved, 2022 Platinum on Order
In the current as-designed configuration for the hybrid powerboost vehicle in question, why were there no consideration for plug-in charging power versatility? After all, there are ports for plugging in and charging other hybrid vehicles built into the truck. Why not charge the F-150 battery that way at home?

Secondly, why is the battery capacity for the hybrid so small at a puny 1.5 KW. It stands to reason that stored electrical power produces less emissions and is easier, cheaper and safer to use than fossil fuel. The battery probably needs to double in size to be an effective aspect of vehicle performance.

During configuration design I wonder how the tradeoff's were conducted between engine size (mass and torque), battery size (energy density), and electric motor size (tractive effort ouput, mass).

It appears to be obvious that the addition of a battery and electric motor operation appeared almost as an after thought to an ordinary eco-boost F-150.

I have yet to see any Powerboost run any signigicant distance (10 miles or further) purely on battery power only. All electric operation is when drivers see a real fuel mileage improvement. I would expect more consumer demand for increased distance on battery only operation next generation.

The places where RV's go, and what they haul and trailer, make most "all-electric" vehicles impractical. Hence the need for a hybrid will always exist when high fuel costs continue.
As others have mentioned, the powerboost is about POWER -- not any real savings / efficiency. It was a way to build a better regular truck -- a point of differntiation that might make somebody chose Ford over Ram or GM.

One of the problems with Ford's regular ecoboost f150 is the lack of instant acceleration. The transmission needs to shift, and the turbos need to spool before things really get going. This was Ford's way of eliminating both of those problems -- as the electric motors fill that "gap" perfectly. The power onboard, a nice bonus.

To stick a huge battery in it and lose payload doesn't make much sense. To put plug in functionality to charge a battery that might last 30 minutes on its own doesn't make sense either. It was always designed as a "how can we use hybrid technology to improve our gas truck".


edit: Would also add that it was likely used as a "proof of concept" to try and win over "old school truck people" that have a "no replacement for displacement" mentality. If the future is electric, taking their best selling engine, and slapping a hybrid on it to make it even better, certainly can help pave the path for vehicles like the Lightning.
 
Last edited:

Sponsored

mwf5888

Well-known member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
217
Reaction score
241
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
Vehicles
2021 KR PowerBoost FX4 & 2024 Escape Platinum
Occupation
Instructional Designer
In town I am averaging 35-40% electric miles and 21 - 26 mpg (depending on if I am using auto start in cold weather). I would never get close to that mpg with my prior 5.0 or EcoBoost engines. As someone above stated, I also love the onboard generator (I have the 7.2Kw). I don't want a fully electric truck and I agree that a plug-in hybrid and bigger battery would take the remaining payload away.

The F150 PowerBoost was made for a specific customer in mind, and I am glad I got mine last year.
 

imnuts

Well-known member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Threads
23
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
1,591
Location
Dirty Jerz
Vehicles
'21 502A Powerboost 4×4
Occupation
Facilities Engineer
Plug the truck in to 120V when you wake up to charge the battery and it would be full by the time you're ready to leave, even if it were dead. Pretty sure the battery size is why it's not a plug-in hybrid. Battery size is also why getting any significant, uninterrupted electric driving doesn't happen. It was likely a trade-off between payload, cost, unknown adoption, and avoiding cutting into Lightning sales.
 

Atlee

Well-known member
First Name
Erroll
Joined
Sep 14, 2021
Threads
21
Messages
1,145
Reaction score
1,160
Location
Mechanicsville, Virginia
Vehicles
2022 Power Boost, XLT 302A, 4x4, SCrew, 6.5' bed
Occupation
retired
Understand that larger batteries and electric motors would really eat into the payload capacity.

However, give the truck the HDPP treatment and the PB would have decent payload capacity.
 

GolfR

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
344
Reaction score
323
Location
Maryland
Vehicles
2022 F150 KR PB
I think a next logical step for ford with hybrid F150s is to pair the hybrid system with the 2.7L eco boost engine. This would give the opportunity to increase the battery size and try to improve fuel economy while also offering the generator capabilities if they choose, maybe just in the 2.4kw form. If they could get the highway EPA up to close to 30 and city over that I think it would be a big winner for people who don’t need to tow a lot. In the end, this might be a Ranger configuration rather than a F150.

On the other hand, Ford may choose to never offer any other hybrid configurations because they want to sell Lightenings.
 

thebigdu

Well-known member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2022
Threads
18
Messages
675
Reaction score
710
Location
New Jersey
Vehicles
2022 Lariat Sport PowerBoost
Still waiting for my PB truck to arrive, but I was very interested in the Hemi eTorque RAM before deciding on Ford. If the Powerboost is an after thought, then the eTorque is basically no thought at all. They're wasting almost all of the little electric motor's output on turning a big old ICE engine before any energy trickles down into the drivetrain. The only real benefit that thing provides is smoother start/stop than the non-eTorque variant. I would agree the F150 hybrid system might make more sense paired with the 2.7EB, but then again, I haven't heard of a significant MPG advantage of the 2.7EB over the non-bybrid 3.5EB. While this first-gen PB is likely proof of concept, it's miles ahead of whatever RAM is doing. And that's a shame, because a RAM 1500 with an F150 powertrain (take your pick, they're all better than the Hemi) would be the ideal truck for me.
 

Sponsored


DBL R

Well-known member
First Name
Jarred
Joined
Oct 11, 2021
Threads
5
Messages
411
Reaction score
592
Location
Washington
Vehicles
2021 F150 powerboost
Occupation
PA
it comes down to their product lineup. They wanted a truck that would pull in new customers who want higher hp and tq numbers, but also want a fairly efficient/economic truck without diluting their sales of the lightning. Truthfully the lightning needs to be a success for electric trucks and large SUV’s to become mainstream; not only as a proof of concept, but because Ford is one of the only major manufacturers to have the ability to pump out large numbers of vehicles per day. For comparison Rivian, who has received a lot of funding from Ford, only produces approximately 1 R1t (their electric truck) daily. Ford produces a new f150 every minute. Ford wanted the PB to be good not great. That’s why they kept the battery and electric motor small. If they wanted to build a great truck they would have added the HD axel as standard for all model ranges and added the Lincoln aviator electric components for larger battery and bigger electric motor, but that would take sales away from their 100% electric powertrain, and like I said, that needs to be a success for the electric large vehicle segment to survive.

that being said. I love my PB, and I’ve never liked Ford. I grew up on a farm and all our trucks were GMC and diesel. The idea of ever owning a gasoline truck let alone a Ford truck never crossed my mind. But they did it. They made me a believer. The power, mpg, new tech/self driving features, and utility of the current PB standout in the current truck offerings.
 

EricR

Well-known member
First Name
Eric
Joined
Jul 20, 2021
Threads
9
Messages
565
Reaction score
609
Location
Boise, ID
Vehicles
"PowerBeast" - our 2021 F150 Lariat 4x4 Powerboost
We have a 2016 Fusion hybrid (great car btw) and about 1/3 of the fairly large trunk is consumed by the hybrid battery. We started out wanting the Fusion plug-in hybrid -- until we saw the battery consumed 2/3 of the trunk space.
 

GregBC

Well-known member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Jan 8, 2022
Threads
21
Messages
270
Reaction score
360
Location
Victoria, BC, Canada
Vehicles
2022 F150 XLT 5.0L 302A Carbonized Gray
Occupation
Retired US Navy; currently DND
We have a 2016 Fusion hybrid (great car btw) and about 1/3 of the fairly large trunk is consumed by the hybrid battery. We started out wanting the Fusion plug-in hybrid -- until we saw the battery consumed 2/3 of the trunk space.
I think that’s the kicker : bigger battery = bigger volume/weight penalty. Saw a video on the underside of a PB and it’s DENSE down there with the cabling/cooling work, more than I expected. Maybe the extra battery can be shoved into space saved by a smaller ICE but I don’t think that’s much space… even LiIon batteries aren’t very power dense (especially to make a difference with EV only range)

I’d love to see the next hybrid with 2.7L and larger electric motor and larger EV-only capable battery. But as others have said, that might (likely) take away from Lightning sales. A very viable idea, IMO, is have the ICE power a generator with elec motors front and back, freeing up space from the drive shaft to the rear wheels for more battery (I’d assume the generator/fed electric motor effectively replaces the transmission in space ); I think other cars use that design and simile idea works well in diesel electric submarines, lol!
Sponsored

 
 




Top