Ordering for 2021 F-150 3.0L Power Stroke Diesel Closes July 16

[Platinum Peasant]

The problem with this engine is not the engine. The engine is fabulous, among the best in the lineup from a smoothness and refinement perspective. A little gutless in stock form but they come alive with some programming. The issue is the way it was marketed (or lack thereof) and the price point. I've tried to buy one since it came out and it never made sense to get it over a gas job.

If they'd have slotted it somewhere between the 2.7L and 3.5L from a price point perspective they'd have done a lot better with it, which is why GM is selling the sh*t out of their 3.0 Duramax. It's priced exactly the same as the flagship 6.2L engine so it gives customers a really strong value proposition of big power from the 6.2 or big MPG from the Duramax. Ford has their flagship 3.5 which puts down big power, gets decent mpg on paper and can tow alot, and then beyond that way over in la-la land there's the diesel which is another $3,000-7,000 over the flagship engine depending on configuration, so 98% of customers can't find the value in it. Hell, Mercedes used to slot in their diesels as the base engines in some configurations when they used to sell diesel in North America. When VW sold diesel cars in North America the TDI engine was an upgrade over the base engine, but priced the same as the larger gas pots in the lineup. The value proposition with that was, again, "do you want big power, or do you want big MPG?"

The problem is that that proposition contradicts Ford's own marketing plan of Ecoboost, which is supposed to be both worlds. We all know the Ecoboost engines are capable of good MPG in ideal scenarios, but as soon as you hook up so much as a feather behind it it will get half or 1/3 the mileage it is capable of getting unloaded. That also goes for the Powerboost, where the spread between unloaded and loaded MPG is even larger. TFL truck got 29mpg unloaded and I believe 9mpg with a trailer when they tested it. A 20mpg spread is asinine, but it goes to show that you simply cannot make a GTDI engine easier on fuel with a load, hybrid or not.

In Canada this engine is $7000 to upgrade to over the 2.7L on a Lariat, and $5000 over the 3.5. There is absolutely no value in it for the average customer who drives average miles. For a guy like me this engine would've been absolutely perfect. I put on higher than average mileage a year, and I'm a weekend warrior with a camper, but not enough to ever be able to get that initial investment out of it in fuel savings. So either way I'm either paying up for the diesel engine or the horrendous fuel economy towing with the Ecoboost, so I'd rather have reserves of power in the hills and take the fuel bill up the arse.

I'd make the power sacrifice for MPG if I had the choice between power and MPG for the same money. Ecoboost is always one of the two, but never both.

The price point was a huge mistake by Ford for sure. And only offering it in lariat or platinum initially sealed its fate a bit too. Ford just threw it in the lineup to match Ram and Chevy but stopped there. Chevy is killing it with the Duramax in their SUV lineup. I thought maybe the expedition would get a 3.0 option to compete but I guess not now.

Long live the 6.7!

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[xtraman122]

I get the price is a little high, but it's not THAT wild. It's $1500 more than the 3.5, $500 more than the PowerBoost. I think if they made it match the price of the PowerBoost or be between the 3.5 and PB that would have been fair.

I honestly probably would have considered it if it was a little more powerful. Not that I need the power, I just want it. If I'm spending $5k for the engine upgrade (Over the base V6 on an XLT) I at least want it to be powerful. Being a diesel they could have so easily spec'd it to have around 500lb ft of torque and a little closer to 300hp and had it look much more impressive on paper, my only guess is that they'd rather be selling their flagship 3.5 EcoBoost and at those specs it would have been cannibalizing that business they spent so much on R&D in.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

The problem with this engine is not the engine. The engine is fabulous, among the best in the lineup from a smoothness and refinement perspective. A little gutless in stock form but they come alive with some programming. The issue is the way it was marketed (or lack thereof) and the price point. I've tried to buy one since it came out and it never made sense to get it over a gas job.

If they'd have slotted it somewhere between the 2.7L and 3.5L from a price point perspective they'd have done a lot better with it, which is why GM is selling the sh*t out of their 3.0 Duramax. It's priced exactly the same as the flagship 6.2L engine so it gives customers a really strong value proposition of big power from the 6.2 or big MPG from the Duramax. Ford has their flagship 3.5 which puts down big power, gets decent mpg on paper and can tow alot, and then beyond that way over in la-la land there's the diesel which is another $3,000-7,000 over the flagship engine depending on configuration, so 98% of customers can't find the value in it. Hell, Mercedes used to slot in their diesels as the base engines in some configurations when they used to sell diesel in North America. When VW sold diesel cars in North America the TDI engine was an upgrade over the base engine, but priced the same as the larger gas pots in the lineup. The value proposition with that was, again, "do you want big power, or do you want big MPG?"

The problem is that that proposition contradicts Ford's own marketing plan of Ecoboost, which is supposed to be both worlds. We all know the Ecoboost engines are capable of good MPG in ideal scenarios, but as soon as you hook up so much as a feather behind it it will get half or 1/3 the mileage it is capable of getting unloaded. That also goes for the Powerboost, where the spread between unloaded and loaded MPG is even larger. TFL truck got 29mpg unloaded and I believe 9mpg with a trailer when they tested it. A 20mpg spread is asinine, but it goes to show that you simply cannot make a GTDI engine easier on fuel with a load, hybrid or not.

In Canada this engine is $7000 to upgrade to over the 2.7L on a Lariat, and $5000 over the 3.5. There is absolutely no value in it for the average customer who drives average miles. For a guy like me this engine would've been absolutely perfect. I put on higher than average mileage a year, and I'm a weekend warrior with a camper, but not enough to ever be able to get that initial investment out of it in fuel savings. So either way I'm either paying up for the diesel engine or the horrendous fuel economy towing with the Ecoboost, so I'd rather have reserves of power in the hills and take the fuel bill up the arse.

I'd make the power sacrifice for MPG if I had the choice between power and MPG for the same money. Ecoboost is always one of the two, but never both.

100% correct - the PowerBoost (and EcoBoost) are designed to ideal results under empty conditions. The TFL Powerboost test showed 5MPG towing. I have been getting 5.5 to 6.1 MPG towing - and I do know how to drive it for mileage - I get close to 24 when empty (my primary car is a Tesla, so hypermiling is in our vocabulary). The PB is simply the wrong tool for the job for folks with heavy towing needs, so I was just considering switching over to the 3.0. Oh well. My bad for trading down from a Superduty diesel and hoping Ford's hype was correct(our Florida HOA bans anything over half-ton). The real issue isn't so much the relatively poor efficiency compared to diesels - I don't care so much about the cost - it's the friggin range. With only a 32 gallon tank, I am getting 150 miles range per tank from the PB (just did a long tow from south FL to upstate NY, then back to VA), so had to stop constantly to refuel. The old powerstroke F-350 with 48-gallon tank got nearly twice the mileage, and had about THREE times that range. I'm used to range anxiety driving an EV - but in a pickup truck?

 

[Antimatter Tremor]

The price point was a huge mistake by Ford for sure. And only offering it in lariat or platinum initially sealed its fate a bit too. Ford just threw it in the lineup to match Ram and Chevy but stopped there. Chevy is killing it with the Duramax in their SUV lineup. I thought maybe the expedition would get a 3.0 option to compete but I guess not now.

Long live the 6.7!

The price, for what the 3.0 costs, for what it puts out for HP & TQ is definitely one of the things that killed it. And like you said, WTF were they not thinking when only fleet orders could get one in an XL or XLT in 2018. Also, like mentioned before, the cost of diesel fuel being the same as or higher than 87 octane in many areas.. It was definitely not done right that's for sure.

100% correct - the PowerBoost (and EcoBoost) are designed to ideal results under empty conditions. The TFL Powerboost test showed 5MPG towing. I have been getting 5.5 to 6.1 MPG towing - and I do know how to drive it for mileage - I get close to 24 when empty (my primary car is a Tesla, so hypermiling is in our vocabulary). The PB is simply the wrong tool for the job for folks with heavy towing needs, so I was just considering switching over to the 3.0. Oh well. My bad for trading down from a Superduty diesel and hoping Ford's hype was correct(our Florida HOA bans anything over half-ton). The real issue isn't so much the relatively poor efficiency compared to diesels - I don't care so much about the cost - it's the friggin range. With only a 32 gallon tank, I am getting 150 miles range per tank from the PB (just did a long tow from south FL to upstate NY, then back to VA), so had to stop constantly to refuel. The old powerstroke F-350 with 48-gallon tank got nearly twice the mileage, and had about THREE times that range. I'm used to range anxiety driving an EV - but in a pickup truck?

? You couldn't pay me to live anywhere that has a HOA

 

[Infotroll]

LOL THEY ARE EVIL?

 

[Infotroll]

Has anyone actually seen a memo that they are discontinuing the motor . Not saying that they won't but not taking any more orders considering the logistics of today might be a prudent move. The thing is made over seas and chip rubber etc etc shortages . Over seas is still crazy compared to US . So if they sell more 3.5 pushing the PB cause that the craze these day
( nothing against the PB) . Yes under marketed under power but still pretty good . 20 years ago F -350 7.3 made by International and Allison transmission the best set up by far with an expected life span of 400- 500 k real word miles. That thing made only 210 HP and 410 of TQ . Yeah I hear some of you saying back in the day LOL .? Point being if that set up moved 10k truck on a cat scale what will it do with half the weight of the 150 set up. If get 200K out I will call it good if I get more then I will call it great.How many of us will trade it in way before a 100k miles no matter which engine you have ?

 

[Infotroll]

Its official here

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