Options for gaining payload

[kavm]

I have been planning buy a fairly loaded Platinum (PB, 701A, FX4, Max trailer Tow, Tow mirrors, 7.5kW gen, layflat seats, interior work surface, lockable storage, retractable tonneau...) but the payload numbers are worrying me...

My towing needs are such that 100-150 lbs difference in payload (say, 1300 vs 1450 lbs) could make the difference between being able to buy PB or not. So, I have been looking at where I can shave off weight... Only the following areas come to mind:

• Swap FX4 out for plan 4x4 - I do want the 4x4 but could do without the weight of skid plates (and off-road shocks, rock crawl). Not ideal but doable. Estimated weight gain - 50 lbs.
• Skip bedspray - Estimated weight gain - 40 lbs.
• Drop tonneau - I was planning retractable tonneau but could drop that - may be soft tonneau. Estimated weight gain - 60 lbs (retractable - 100 lbs; soft - 40 lbs)
• [Not applicable to me as I am not getting it] Drop the moonroof

So, I am thinking that the top thee could gain me about 150 lbs. I would love some advice on the first two or all three...

• What do I really lose by dropping FX4 but keeping 4x4?
  • We will drive some on the dirt roads - mainly to get to the hiking trailheads that require driving the dirt road but can drive slowly. So, skid plates are definitely nice to have but 40-50 pounds in weight might be nicer.
  • Off road shock absorbers - probably not too critical are are aren't truly off-roading
  • Hill descent - This could be helpful with a trailer in tow but don't know how critical
  • Rock crawl - Not useful from what I can tell
• Bedspray-
  • How critical is bedspray / bed covering? We are only using it for camping - trailer + some camping gear in the truck bed.
  • Having never owned a truck, I just don't know whether thinking of dropping it a really stupid idea or something I should continue considering

My understanding is that

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[melthon]

I have been planning buy a fairly loaded Platinum (PB, 701A, FX4, Max trailer Tow, Tow mirrors, 7.5kW gen, layflat seats, interior work surface, lockable storage, retractable tonneau...) but the payload numbers are worrying me...

My towing needs are such that 100-150 lbs difference in payload (say, 1300 vs 1450 lbs) could make the difference between being able to buy PB or not. So, I have been looking at where I can shave off weight... Only the following areas come to mind:

• Swap FX4 out for plan 4x4 - I do want the 4x4 but could do without the weight of skid plates (and off-road shocks, rock crawl). Not ideal but doable. Estimated weight gain - 50 lbs.
• Skip bedspray - Estimated weight gain - 40 lbs.
• Drop tonneau - I was planning retractable tonneau but could drop that - may be soft tonneau. Estimated weight gain - 60 lbs (retractable - 100 lbs; soft - 40 lbs)
• [Not applicable to me as I am not getting it] Drop the moonroof

So, I am thinking that the top thee could gain me about 150 lbs. I would love some advice on the first two or all three...

• What do I really lose by dropping FX4 but keeping 4x4?
  • We will drive some on the dirt roads - mainly to get to the hiking trailheads that require driving the dirt road but can drive slowly. So, skid plates are definitely nice to have but 40-50 pounds in weight might be nicer.
  • Off road shock absorbers - probably not too critical are are aren't truly off-roading
  • Hill descent - This could be helpful with a trailer in tow but don't know how critical
  • Rock crawl - Not useful from what I can tell
• Bedspray-
  • How critical is bedspray / bed covering? We are only using it for camping - trailer + some camping gear in the truck bed.
  • Having never owned a truck, I just don't know whether thinking of dropping it a really stupid idea or something I should continue considering

My understanding is that

What did you estimate your payload is at with all the options? How much do you need it to be?

 

[kavm]

@melthon - While it would be ideal to have 1500 lbs, my lower limit is around 1450 lbs.

As I am special ordering and the trucks aren't in the lot -i am guesstimating the numbers. I haven't got a list by option anywhere. [I know some PDFs have been shared on the board but I could honestly not figure all that much out from them.]

• FX4 estimate: I saw somewhere 40-50 lbs weight with the skid plates. I am unsure of this estimate.
• Spray Bedliner: Again, the range on internet (after market) seems to be between 40-70 lbs. So, I am guessing 40 lbs.
• Retractable Tonneau: Retrax has a shipping weight of 110 lbs. I am guessing that effective weight is around 105 lbs. The had folding ones weigh around 70-80 lbs and soft ones around 20-30 lbs.

 

[DaHealey]

@melthon - While it would be ideal to have 1500 lbs, my lower limit is around 1450 lbs.

As I am special ordering and the trucks aren't in the lot -i am guesstimating the numbers. I haven't got a list by option anywhere. [I know some PDFs have been shared on the board but I could honestly not figure all that much out from them.]

• FX4 estimate: I saw somewhere 40-50 lbs weight with the skid plates. I am unsure of this estimate.
• Spray Bedliner: Again, the range on internet (after market) seems to be between 40-70 lbs. So, I am guessing 40 lbs.
• Retractable Tonneau: Retrax has a shipping weight of 110 lbs. I am guessing that effective weight is around 105 lbs. The had folding ones weigh around 70-80 lbs and soft ones around 20-30 lbs.

Kavm,

CurryBob took some pictures at the drive event and just happened to take a photo of a PB Limited. The payload came in at 1371lbs.

Now, from what I’ve read, 1371lbs does *not* include a 150lb driver. The yellow sticker is payload + 150 lbs driver, so maybe the total payload is 1521 lbs?

What I do see is the moonroof on that model, so taking that off will add a bit more weight.

It does have the max recline seats, not sure about FX4. I think it’s safe to assume no FX4 in that number.

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/thr...ions-for-your-f-150-test-drives.371/post-3485

The Limiteds also include a bunch of other add ons that probably bump their base weight up by 50 to ~100 lbs compared to a 702A platinum. Small things like the wheel liners and other stuff. Atleast, that’s what I’ve figured out from looking at the two.

I will say, if you’re really that tight then you might want to forget the bed liner and tonneau for now and see what the number comes in at. Same with the FX4. I also plan on going on forest roads and don’t plan on getting guards. I have them on my current truck (Taco TRD OffRoad and really haven’t needed them).

 

[kavm]

@DaHealey - Thank you! You are right. I will drop tonneau and bed liner altogether. Perhaps FX4 too - and go for just 4x4. If that can get to somewhere between 1450-1500 lbs range, I’d be happy as a clam!

I am not sure about the payload not including the driver wait. It is GVWR - Base Weight. Base weight includes fuel, etc. but not the driver. That’s what I find on the internet, for example - https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/28488124.cfm

THanks again!

 

[Roger350]

@DaHealey - Thank you! You are right. I will drop tonneau and bed liner altogether. Perhaps FX4 too - and go for just 4x4. If that can get to somewhere between 1450-1500 lbs range, I’d be happy as a clam!

I am not sure about the payload not including the driver wait. It is GVWR - Base Weight. Base weight includes fuel, etc. but not the driver. That’s what I find on the internet, for example - https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/28488124.cfm

THanks again!

You are correct.

I believe the Payload Sticker number, such as the 1371 referenced above, is maximum added payload the truck can handle, period. The weight of the driver, passengers, gear, and the trailer tongue weight all have to be subtracted from that Payload number to see if you can carry everything you need to carry.

I think the maximum trailer weight ratings are based on that Payload number, minus a 150 lb driver, and the rest of the Payload rating is then devoted to trailer tongue rating, to calculate the highest weight trailer you can tow with a totally empty truck with a 150 lb driver. That is where the 150 lb driver comes into play.

They had to subtract the driver weight to come up with the trailer rating, but you still have to subtract the actual driver weight from the Payload rating when you are seeing if you are within the payload limits of the truck.

 

[kavm]

@Roger350 - Thank you so much for that clarification. I have seen the 150 number before and have not been very clear what that was about. You explanation helps make that clear.

Any ideas on my predicament? We have -

• 5-th wheel trailer pin weight - 720 lbs (mfr rating is 630 lbs - I added the rest based on owner feedback). The dry trailer weight is 3500 and weight rating (loaded) is 5500 lbs,
• Driver + passenger weight - 280 lbs
• 5th wheel hitch weight - 100 lbs (Anderson ultimate 5th wheel hitch with rail mount = 40 lbs + 60 lbs for the rail mount)

All that adds up to 1100 lbs. Adding anther 100 lbs for optimistic estimation above - I am looking at a min payload hit of about 1200. If I add another 250 lbs for camping gear or one visitor (very rare), we could get away with something like 1450 lbs.

That’s why I came up with the list of

• Drop FX4 and get simple 4x4
• Drop spray bedliner
• Drop tonneau (may be add soft later if payload permits)

I’d love to get your advice.

Thanks!

 

[ilkhan]

My goal is 1500 on a powerboost 4x4 lariat. My '17 3.5EB 501A 4x4 was 1629. Dropping moon roof and fx4 for powerboost, should be ok.

 

[kavm]

1500 is ideal for us as well, but on a Plat with 6.5K box. Moonroof was never in. Looks like FX4 will have to give way for a plain 4x4, but that might not be enough to get to 1450, let alone 1500 lbs.

 

[Roger350]

@Roger350 - Thank you so much for that clarification. I have seen the 150 number before and have not been very clear what that was about. You explanation helps make that clear.

Any ideas on my predicament? We have -

• 5-th wheel trailer pin weight - 720 lbs (mfr rating is 630 lbs - I added the rest based on owner feedback). The dry trailer weight is 3500 and weight rating (loaded) is 5500 lbs,
• Driver + passenger weight - 280 lbs
• 5th wheel hitch weight - 100 lbs (Anderson ultimate 5th wheel hitch with rail mount = 40 lbs + 60 lbs for the rail mount)

All that adds up to 1100 lbs. Adding anther 100 lbs for optimistic estimation above - I am looking at a min payload hit of about 1200. If I add another 250 lbs for camping gear or one visitor (very rare), we could get away with something like 1450 lbs.

That’s why I came up with the list of

• Drop FX4 and get simple 4x4
• Drop spray bedliner
• Drop tonneau (may be add soft later if payload permits)

I’d love to get your advice.

Thanks!

How long is the trailer? I think fifth wheel trailers and half tons are an odd mix, but Ford does allow for them, so nothing wrong with it.

I think you are making all the right decisions with regard to removing weight. The only one I haven't seen you mention was the electronic running boards, but I think you would have to drop down to a KR 600A or Lariat to remove those, which would be a big concession, for a small weight difference.

I also think you need to look at how often you will tow versus the other uses you have planned for this truck. Is it going to be a daily driver where fuel mileage is a consideration, or is it strictly a weekend tool for pulling this camper? If the later, then I might consider going with the EcoBoost, since fuel mileage shouldn't matter much, but If it is going to accumulate more miles unloaded than with the trailer on it, then I'd stick with the PowerBoost. Plus, I think the PowerBoost will actually pull the trailer better than the EcoBoost, if you turn a blind eye to the payload sticker.

Your trailer weight is significantly below the max weights this truck/powertrain is capable of towing. Are you concerned about being stopped by authorities or having to check in at weigh stations where you are from? I cannot imagine anyone would stop a truck pulling such a small load, but being outside of vehicle ratings could cause a problem in those situations. But being polite and saying you didn't understand all the numbers, and that you would never purposely do anything dangerous with your family in the vehicle would probably get a pass from any reasonable authority, once...

But realistically, the Platinum you are trying to spec out will probably be fine for what you want to use it for, you may just exceed the payload rating a little. Helper springs like the "Add-A-Leaf" type or airbags would help if the extra weight makes your truck sag more than you like, but they do not add payload ratings per say, and the sticker will always be the sticker.

If you had a 14,000 lb trailer you were trying to skimp by with on this truck I would tell you to stop and order an F-250. But you are just actually trying to understand and follow the ratings Ford puts on these trucks from the factory, which is more than about 75% of the people you see pulling trailers with half tons have ever done.

But everyone has to do what they are comfortable with, and I would never suggest anyone pull or haul beyond Ford's published numbers for their own safety. I applaud your concern for trying to get it right, and wish everyone followed the rules.

 

[kavm]

@Roger350 - Thank you so so much for your detailed response!

The camping trailer is 21’2” long. The towing guidance lists

The truck is going to almost exclusively be for camping. A large part of that will be towing and the rest will be recreational use like getting to trailheads, etc. while the camping trailer is parked.

The attraction of the PB is not so much due to the mpg, though that is welcome. We are attracted to PB as it gives 7.5 kW generator as an option. That's worth quite a lot when camping in non-commercial sites, which is likely in the type of places we like to visit and hike in.

We would prefer keep Plat and 701A, if we can.

We are definitely trying very hard to educate ourselves and make responsible decisions. We strive to stay on the right side of the law - so will do whatever we can to stay within it. Once we have the truck and the trailer, we will definitely go to a weigh station to get real readings for our calibration. That said, I am certain being 50 lbs over the payload (the max we might stray towards) is not going to be a safety issue. And, in the event we were stopped and found in minor violation, I am sure some of the weight could be shifted to the rear of the camping trailer to get within the limits.

The insurance and liability in the event of an accident (slightly elevated concern early on as we get used to driving the big truck and trailer) - being within the limits would definitely be important.

I have followed your thoughtful and knowledgeable posts and really appreciate getting your point of view - and an affirmation that we are on the right track.

Thanks again!

 

[DaHealey]

You are correct.

I believe the Payload Sticker number, such as the 1371 referenced above, is maximum added payload the truck can handle, period. The weight of the driver, passengers, gear, and the trailer tongue weight all have to be subtracted from that Payload number to see if you can carry everything you need to carry.

I think the maximum trailer weight ratings are based on that Payload number, minus a 150 lb driver, and the rest of the Payload rating is then devoted to trailer tongue rating, to calculate the highest weight trailer you can tow with a totally empty truck with a 150 lb driver. That is where the 150 lb driver comes into play.

They had to subtract the driver weight to come up with the trailer rating, but you still have to subtract the actual driver weight from the Payload rating when you are seeing if you are within the payload limits of the truck.

I decided to look up the 150lb number, because I’ve read about it enough to wonder why it comes up. I was absolutely wrong (you are right), the yellow sticker has nothing to do with the extra driver.

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/conten...neral/pdf/guides/20Towing_Ford_F150_Oct15.pdf

Look at the bottom of page 2 on payload capacities:

“Maximum payload and towing capabilities are for properly equipped base vehicles with required equipment and a 150-lb. driver and vary based on cargo, vehicle configuration, accessories and number of passengers. See label on door jamb for carrying capacity of a specific vehicle. “

It looks like Ford’s ‘base’ payload weights have an allowance for a 150 lb driver, but the yellow sticker does not.

 

[Roger350]

We're all here to help each other out. I'm glad to be of assistance, and hope I do not come across as a know-it-all. I have learned plenty from other members here too. Good luck with your choices. I forgot about the 7.2kw Pro Power, which l also ordered. I'll be watching to see what kinds of adapter plugs all you camper families need for that 240v plug to run your camper AC/lights, etc. I figure it will allow me to have a real compressor and air tools at the racetrack for myself, but a camper could be in our future too, you never know. Good luck, and happy Thanksgiving.

 

[kavm]

@Roger350 - Thank you! Your comments here and elsewhere have been helpful - at least to me coming in without any truck or towing experience. It is a learning curve to educate oneself and posters on this forum (and others) have been very generous in explaining and offering advice and opinion where requested. So, I had made the comment in that spirit.

The Pro Power (along with lithium batteries) gave us the confidence to jettison the 3-way refrigerator (including propane) for a compressor variety (without propane). So, ProPower is a very compelling addition for campers.

Thanks again for sharing your insights, and happy Thanksgiving and holiday season to you too!

 

[Blue Spruce]

@Roger350 - Thank you so so much for your detailed response!

The camping trailer is 21’2” long. The towing guidance lists

The truck is going to almost exclusively be for camping. A large part of that will be towing and the rest will be recreational use like getting to trailheads, etc. while the camping trailer is parked.

The attraction of the PB is not so much due to the mpg, though that is welcome. We are attracted to PB as it gives 7.5 kW generator as an option. That's worth quite a lot when camping in non-commercial sites, which is likely in the type of places we like to visit and hike in.

We would prefer keep Plat and 701A, if we can.

The insurance and liability in the event of an accident (slightly elevated concern early on as we get used to driving the big truck and trailer) - being within the limits would definitely be important.

I'm curious what 5th wheel you have or are planning to get. from the specs it looks like the Escape 5.0. Which by the way is the one we are eyeing once our teenagers are out of the house. Small enough to easily tow and get into smaller campsites but large enough to accommodate a couple nicely And it has a bathroom. Plus, looks to be nice quality....

Im not trying to throw a wrench in your plan but if you are struggling with the payload why not consider just the 3.5 EB and a separate quiet generator like the Honda EU2200 or a pair of them in parallel? i Think (think is the keyword) the truck needs to be idling to get the generator and I’d rather have a small quiet generator running at my campsite instead of my truck idling.

small RVs don’t take a lot of electricity depending on use. fridge is 3 way and can run off propane. furnace is the same but takes some electricity for the fan. Lights are now all LED. The only real power hog if the AC unit. A lot of boondockers look to bigger battery banks and solar to keep the batteries topped off and just run a generator for the AC in the middle of the day.

I admit that the Powerboost is pretty cool and I’ve wavered back and forth on the PB with the amount of non-towing driving I do for work it would probably pay off but I’m struggling with payload capacity limits on my current 2016 XLT Sport which is one of the reasons why I’m buying a 2021. We just end up taking a lot of stuff camping. You sound more disciplined then we are with extra stuff but 2 teenage girls and my chances of discouraging bring more stuff when we have the space is limited at best.

just my thoughts. I think you’d be fine with the route you are going but just wanted throw a different perspective out there.

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