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sotek2345

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It's true that batteries' internal resistance changes at different temperatures, but to a point, a warmer battery will have less resistance and charge "easier" than a cold battery. Also, the additional cooling on the towing package wouldn't be needed to cool a battery. If the stock cooling system can't cool a charging battery adequately, it will be completely overwhelmed by the truck driving down the road. The BMS would be the same between the trucks.

On a side note, I'm not even sure what the max towing package includes on the Lightning over the tow tech package.
Per the e-mail survey that was sent around, the Max towing package is just additional cooling for the battery (edit: and motors) to support the higher sustained loads.
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TN F-150

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Yes, that’s my understanding too.
And since the Platinum trim is the only model it comes with as standard equipment, and since only the Platinum has a range exception, and since Marques Brownlee observed a longer range in his review of the Platinum, then my initial reaction is to attribute the longer range to the enhanced cooling…..
If the power curve of the battery is better with additional cooling in towing mode, then it stands to reason that that additional cooling can still be used when you’re not towing to extend your range…
 

sotek2345

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Yes, that’s my understanding too.
And since the Platinum trim is the only model it comes with as standard equipment, and since only the Platinum has a range exception, and since Marques Brownlee observed a longer range in his review of the Platinum, then my initial reaction is to attribute the longer range to the enhanced cooling…..
If the power curve of the battery is better with additional cooling in towing mode, then it stands to reason that that additional cooling can still be used when you’re not towing to extend your range…
It doesn't really work that way - Lion batteries work best (most efficient) in an pretty narrow temperature band (~70F to ~90F from memory). As long as the cooling system can keep them in that range you are getting maximum performance. The additional cooling would be needed while towing due to the higher sustained draw (most likely up steep grades in high ambient temps).

The Platinum most likely has the exception due to the larger 22" wheels and extra luxury equipment (added weight / power draw) which gives it a LOWER range. I think the reason we are seeing higher numbers in the youtube videos is a combination of ford being a little conservative with range (see Mach-e examples) and lots of low speed driving on those prototypes. It could also just be that the range indicator isn't calibrated on them since they are just prototypes!
 

TN F-150

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You may be right.
But it would be a poor marketing move on Ford’s part.
It appears that by all accounts that the number one consumer concern is the range of an EV.
If Ford is trying to sell their flagship pickup that gets less mileage than their lower grade models, it sounds to me like the kiss of death…
Give me a Platinum with more range and then I’d think hard about it.
 

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It appears that by all accounts that the number one consumer concern is the range of an EV.
For most consumers that concern is misplaced, once you get past 200 mile range or so.
 

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TN F-150

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Just saying
It seems counterintuitive when Brands like Tesla have three models that range from 250 to 500 miles and it’s the most expensive model that has the highest range.
Then there’s Ford that wants to sell the Platinum pickup with the worse range of the premium battery?
 

sotek2345

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Just saying
It seems counterintuitive when Brands like Tesla have three models that range from 250 to 500 miles and it’s the most expensive model that has the highest range.
Then there’s Ford that wants to sell the Platinum pickup with the worse range of the premium battery?
Ford did a similar thing with the Mach-e. The longest range version is the extended range battery / RWD option. The eAWD option is more expensive, but also a shorter range. the GT is the top trim model but has a lower range than the premium.

Ford differentiates their trims with features, performance, and interior quality where with Tesla it is just about range and performance.
 

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Just saying
It seems counterintuitive when Brands like Tesla have three models that range from 250 to 500 miles and it’s the most expensive model that has the highest range.
Then there’s Ford that wants to sell the Platinum pickup with the worse range of the premium battery?
Based on most reviews I've seen Tesla range numbers are somewhat aspirational (IOW overstated). With Ford Mustang Mach-E, the range numbers are proving to be very conservative. But as I said, once you get to 200 miles of real world range, it really doesn't matter for most drivers. Probably even less than 200, but I'm feeling generous.
 

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I've noticed that on the Lightning Technical Specifications, that there is an asterisk * next to the Charge Time and Range specs. Below which there is an Exception for the Platinum Trim. However the nature of the exception isn't explained.

This has got me wondering whether the Platinum Trim has a different battery chemistry, a different software management system or some other reason for the exception.

Marques Brownlee's review of his Platinum Trim Lightning alluded to an extended range beyond that of Ford's targeted range, which Ford has explained as EPA testing with a 1,000 lb. payload. Another indicator of the model's differences.

Beyond a possible battery chemistry difference than the rest of the Lightning trim's, there may be another possible explanation:

The Platinum Trim appears to be the only model where the Extended Range Battery, the 80A charging system, the 9.6 kW Pro Power Onboard and the Max Trailer Towing Package are standard Equipment. The Max Trailer package consisting of, in part, an enhanced cooling system for the batteries and motors.

My question to the forum experts more learned than myself (and that is most of you) is:

Is it possible that the the combination of an enhanced cooling system and possible other battery software management capabilities brought about by other hardware choices might increase the Lightning's range?

Pete
I think the reason the Platinum gets the asterisk is because it is the only trim with the Extended Range battery.

Is it possible that the efficiency of the batteries can be influenced for the better by the ability to control their temperature, and if so, would adding additional cooling capacity hardware via the Max Towing package give the battery management software additional tools to improve efficiency and range?
It is unlikely any sort of enhanced cooling will impact range. What it could definitely impact is the charging curve. I suspect the enhanced cooling may improve the ability to cool the battery so that you can maintain a higher output while towing or a higher input while charging. My guess is the exclusion of the Platinum is because those big 22" wheels will lose efficiency.
 

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The Lariat Premium also comes standard with the extended range battery, but the Max Towing package is still optional even at that trim level; it only becomes standard in the Platinum trim…
 

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Shutterbug:
Do you mind clarifying your statement regarding a 200 mile range?
 

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Shutterbug:
Do you mind clarifying your statement regarding a 200 mile range?
My point is that an EV with 200 mile range will cover nearly all daily driving situations. An average person drives less than 30 miles per day. So range anxiety is not based on facts. There are exceptions of course, but additional range is not free. If you never drive more than 100 miles, do you really need a car that can go 500 miles on a charge?
 

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If you never drive more than 100 miles, do you really need a car that can go 500 miles on a charge?
The problem with superlatives is that they are never 100% right (see what I did there?) Most people's daily commuting is indeed well-served by vehicles with well under 300 miles of range, but you're rarely able to reach that rated range in most cases. Add in inclement weather, highway speeds over 70 mph, heavier loads, or elevation increases and your range drops significantly. The extra capacity is needed to maintain a reasonable range between charging stops even when conditions aren't ideal enough to make the rated range.

My car only gets 243 miles on a full charge, but I could still use a bigger buffer in the cold, and I sure as heck wouldn't tow anything with it (even if I could). I still haven't hit my battery degradation plateau, however. It's pretty common for batteries to degrade 10-12% in the first few years and then stay there, so 300 becomes 270 down the road a ways.

Tesla seems to think passenger cars should plateau at ~400 miles of new range given the recent battery capacity decrease in the latest Model S. I think that's pretty reasonable. For trucks I can see people wanting as much capacity as they can get if they intend to tow.

Just saying
It seems counterintuitive when Brands like Tesla have three models that range from 250 to 500 miles and it’s the most expensive model that has the highest range.
Then there’s Ford that wants to sell the Platinum pickup with the worse range of the premium battery?
Tesla's highest-tier performance vehicles have (I think) always had worse range than the trim just below them. The performance motors are not quite as efficient, and there is a range penalty on those cars as well for running the larger wheel option, just like we're likely to see on the Platinum F150 trim. It's too bad Ford doesn't offer 20" wheels on the Platinum model. If the 20" wheels reach an EPA estimate of 300 miles, I'd wager the 22's will net you 285.
 

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The problem with superlatives is that they are never 100% right (see what I did there?) Most people's daily commuting is indeed well-served by vehicles with well under 300 miles of range, but you're rarely able to reach that rated range in most cases. Add in inclement weather, highway speeds over 70 mph, heavier loads, or elevation increases and your range drops significantly. The extra capacity is needed to maintain a reasonable range between charging stops even when conditions aren't ideal enough to make the rated range.

My car only gets 243 miles on a full charge, but I could still use a bigger buffer in the cold, and I sure as heck wouldn't tow anything with it (even if I could). I still haven't hit my battery degradation plateau, however. It's pretty common for batteries to degrade 10-12% in the first few years and then stay there, so 300 becomes 270 down the road a ways.

Tesla seems to think passenger cars should plateau at ~400 miles of new range given the recent battery capacity decrease in the latest Model S. I think that's pretty reasonable. For trucks I can see people wanting as much capacity as they can get if they intend to tow.
Over at Mustang Mac-E forum, there are plenty of people commenting that they don't bother plugging their car every night, since they barely scratch their range, and that includes those with AWD and standard battery (nominal range 210 miles). I have a coworker with an elderly Model S, who plugs in 2 times a week. There exceptions of course, but most people don't need 300, 400, 500 miles of range. That extra range comes at a cost. I happen to think that 200 miles of real world range is a good compromise. It may be a bit more, but in either case, range anxiety is misplaced.
 

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Yes, "200 miles of real world range is a good compromise" is one I agree with, but to get 200 miles of real world range on a car that's only 3-4 years old, you may need 300 miles of EPA advertised range to get there unless you're always driving in ideal unloaded conditions on flat land.

Range anxiety is handled with some trip planning, but in some cases you just "can't get there from here" without that extra range. This is especially true right now if making a round trip to a semi-remote area without destination charging. If you only use your EV for commuting a reasonable distance and have an ICE vehicle for anything outside of that range, sure you can make do with even less range, but a lot of people only have one vehicle and it needs to be able to "do it all" including handling the fringe cases which are not always as uncommon as you think.

I don't think anyone said the extra range was free or without its own compromises either. Rivian, for example, offers a "max pack" with 400 miles of range, but it is reported to reduce the load capability of the truck, storage, and acceleration due to the added weight.
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