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Lightning Efficiency - MPGe?

Maxx

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Does anyone know what MPGe for Lightning is? Rivian just published theirs. This is with road tires. You will have 5%-15% hit with other options. I will be happy if we get similar numbers. I don’t expect better. If we don’t have any numbers from Ford, what is your best guess of what we will get?

Ford F-150 Lightning Lightning Efficiency - MPGe? 1630890117337
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sotek2345

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I am expecting similar for the Lightning. Larger frontal area offset by less ground clearance for aero drag.
 

GarageMahal

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I am expecting similar for the Lightning. Larger frontal area offset by less ground clearance for aero drag.
While I would love to see numbers like those, I am expecting closer to 50MPGe. Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised when the actual values are released.
 

Blainestang

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Ford gives the charge rate for 1 hour of charging at 32A/240V as 14 miles for the SR battery.

240V*32A*0.9efficiency=6.9kW

So, ~6.9kWh reach the truck in an hour. If that's 14 miles worth of capacity, then:

14mi/6.9kWh = 2.0 mi/kWh

230 miles / 2.0 mi/kWh = 115 kWh battery

33.7 kWh/gal * 2.0 mi/kWh = 67.4 mpge


Doing the same calls for the ER battery, which is rated a 13 miles/hr on 32A/240V:

13/6.9 = 1.88 mi/kWh

300 miles / 1.88mi/kWh = 160 kWh

So, those are my guesses based on the info Ford has provided.

33.7 kWh/gal * 1.88 mi/kWh = 63.4 mpge


This is just a ballpark for several reasons, such as Ford's rounding of the miles/hr charging, etc.
 

Whiskey

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Ford gives the charge rate for 1 hour of charging at 32A/240V as 14 miles for the SR battery.

240V*32A*0.9efficiency=6.9kW

So, ~6.9kWh reach the truck in an hour. If that's 14 miles worth of capacity, then:

14mi/6.9kWh = 2.0 mi/kWh

230 miles / 2.0 mi/kWh = 115 kWh battery

33.7 kWh/gal * 2.0 mi/kWh = 67.4 mpge


Doing the same calls for the ER battery, which is rated a 13 miles/hr on 32A/240V:

13/6.9 = 1.88 mi/kWh

300 miles / 1.88mi/kWh = 160 kWh

So, those are my guesses based on the info Ford has provided.

33.7 kWh/gal * 1.88 mi/kWh = 63.4 mpge


This is just a ballpark for several reasons, such as Ford's rounding of the miles/hr charging, etc.
I need a bit of help understanding your statement from a “Cost point of view”, maybe you can help? I’m on TOU so, my cost per kWh is.06 during a set time range. If I can go 2.0 miles per .06 then doesn’t that mean it cost me .03 per mile? Last time I filled up my PB, I paid $3.22 per gallon. Hmmmm….
$3.22/$0.03=107.33 for the cost of 1-gallon of gas? So, does MPGe stand for miles per gallln equivalent? I’m lost on MPGe???
 

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sotek2345

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I need a bit of help understanding your statement from a “Cost point of view”, maybe you can help? I’m on TOU so, my cost per kWh is.06 during a set time range. If I can go 2.0 miles per .06 then doesn’t that mean it cost me .03 per mile? Last time I filled up my PB, I paid $3.22 per gallon. Hmmmm….
$3.22/$0.03=107.33 for the cost of 1-gallon of gas? So, does MPGe stand for miles per gallln equivalent? I’m lost on MPGe???
MPGe is a made up number that has little basis in how a car is driven. A gallon of gas has 33.7kwhrs in available thermal energy (note: a vehicle only uses a fraction of this). Based on this, MPGe was set on how many miles and EV could get from 33.7kwhrs of electricity. Marginally useful for comparing models but mostly useless for any real world calculations.

Ok, now let's talk cost per mile. Your 0.03 cost per mile for electric is correct, so let's look at gas. I will use my 2016 F150 as a comparison. I get an average of 15 mpg in mixed driving and a gallon of 87 octane is a little over $3 (let's just use $3 for easy math and giving the ICE truck an advantage). $3 divided by 15 miles gives you $0.20 per mile. The ice truck costs almost 7x as much per mile to drive. Probably closer to 10x when you factor in maintenance.
 

gorwell

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I am expecting aero similar for the Lightning. Larger frontal area offset by less ground clearance for aero drag.

Rivian and f150 have very similar ground clearance while driving.

Rivian just has an option for more while off roading (and gets even lower when you park)

F150 will certainly get worse efficiency than rivian, but not much more ( both are big and inefficient, but that's a truck). The f150 shape isn't as aerodynamic (e.g., rivian has a spoiler for reduced drag). Plus it's slighty wider, and taller.

Rivian cab height is 72 inches, f150 is 78.

Rivian width is(with mirrors) is 87 inches. , f150 is 96.


Rivian official numbers for ride height for their standard drive mode is 9.7 inches, while f150 is 8.9. certainly rivian could tweak their ride height more if they found it safe as well. I have heard they have an aero drive mode at 9.4 but don't see official numbers.

F150 doesn't have enough tweaks to make it as efficient bad rivian.
 

Roy2001

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Ford gives the charge rate for 1 hour of charging at 32A/240V as 14 miles for the SR battery.

240V*32A*0.9efficiency=6.9kW

So, ~6.9kWh reach the truck in an hour. If that's 14 miles worth of capacity, then:

14mi/6.9kWh = 2.0 mi/kWh

230 miles / 2.0 mi/kWh = 115 kWh battery

33.7 kWh/gal * 2.0 mi/kWh = 67.4 mpge


Doing the same calls for the ER battery, which is rated a 13 miles/hr on 32A/240V:

13/6.9 = 1.88 mi/kWh

300 miles / 1.88mi/kWh = 160 kWh

So, those are my guesses based on the info Ford has provided.

33.7 kWh/gal * 1.88 mi/kWh = 63.4 mpge


This is just a ballpark for several reasons, such as Ford's rounding of the miles/hr charging, etc.
Charge rate varies with different SoC. But yes it should be very close to 2miles per kWh, MPGe of F150 should be 60-65, I would say 65.
 

Blainestang

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Charge rate varies with different SoC.
Usually, yeah, but not always. (etron is basically 150kW from 0-80%, for instance.)

And the info we have from Ford indicates the ER is basically exactly 150kW all the way up to 80%.

If it's ~1.88 mi/kWh, then 300 miles means 160kWh usable battery capacity.

65% (15-80%) of 160kWh is ~104kWh. In order to reach 104kWh delivered in 41 mins (per Ford), you'd have to *average* just over 150kW... 151.7kW.

If the truck maxes out at 150kW, as Ford says, then to average 150kW, it has to be 150kW the whole time from 15% to 80%.

Now, maybe it will actually peak higher than that, but based on the info we currently have, the only way for it all to add up is for the ER to charge at ~150kW from 0% to 80%.
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