Installing Onboard Scale?

[ROBB1]

Hey man. So I know this isn't F150 related but I just put in an order for a 23 F350 Lariat with Lariat ultimate package. The on board scale wasn't an option for me to choose, however ford will be introducing it as an option on lariat in the spring. I did not realize this was going to become an option for superduty till today when I saw it on fords website. However, it states it will be available for Lariat, King Ranch, Platinum, and Limited. Im assuming since ill be getting the ultimate package, I will be up there with the other 3 wiring wise. So far the main difference was massaging seats (which ford has now put a stop too, due to part availably), power up tailgate, and ascetics that I that I can tell. Plus I can order Lariat now, not the other 3. I am curious to see how they equip the 23 Lariat against the other 3, and how possible it would be to add. I am assuming I will run into the same issues yall F150 guys are running into. I too would like to see if I can do this and possibly get it up and running especially since we dont have the CCD and its not an option.

My guess is you will be missing a fair amount of hardware. They are rare but there were F150s with scales, but without CCD. If the F350 is similar you’d be missing 2 height sensors, a VDM module, and some not insignificant amount of wiring. The F350 might be completely different though.

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[Snakebitten]

I could be wrong, but you might still have the VDM module if you have auto-leveling LED headlights.

Yea, it'd be a job to retrofit. But it's already been proven that with the necessary tenacity, just about any retrofit is possible.
I have CCD/Scales. They definitely share the same tech onboard. I'm kinda surprised Ford would make it possible to get scales without CCD. And it makes little sense to have CCD and not scales. CCD literally provides scales, from a technology point of view.

 

[DK4]

I have scales without CCD on my truck. Let me know if there is anything I can help with.

 

[crazywayne311]

i have on board scales but not CCD but i have the FX4 package. I remember seeing a post a few months ago saying if you have scales you have CCD but i checked my window sticker and saw no mention. i did see something saying that if you had the FX4 package it negated the CCD.

 

[Snakebitten]

Yes, FX4 is not compatible with CCD.
I'm sure Ford can explain. But I haven't seen an explanation.
FX4 isn't just a different shock/damper than non-FX4, but maybe Ford just didn't go through the trouble of breaking the "package" for accomodating substituting hardware?
Without doing so there WOULD be 4 extra dampers on the assembly line for every FX4 CCD build.
I can't think of any FX4 components that would be incompatible otherwise.

 

[Taco1588]

My guess is you will be missing a fair amount of hardware. They are rare but there were F150s with scales, but without CCD. If the F350 is similar you’d be missing 2 height sensors, a VDM module, and some not insignificant amount of wiring. The F350 might be completely different though.

Yeah thats what I was thinking, but maybe, just maybe ford might make it more of an add on since it's a superduty? But thats why im curious. I cant wait for it to come in to really take a look at the truck and see what im working with.

I could be wrong, but you might still have the VDM module if you have auto-leveling LED headlights.

Yea, it'd be a job to retrofit. But it's already been proven that with the necessary tenacity, just about any retrofit is possible.
I have CCD/Scales. They definitely share the same tech onboard. I'm kinda surprised Ford would make it possible to get scales without CCD. And it makes little sense to have CCD and not scales. CCD literally provides scales, from a technology point of view.

Im sure I have the VDM because ill have the LED headlights and I read that they will be auto leveling. Since the superyduty's dont have CCD as an option at all, im assuming it would be easier to study those trucks and see how they are doing it.

I have scales without CCD on my truck. Let me know if there is anything I can help with.

Sounds good, thanks

 

[dolsen]

Unfortunately the news is not great. I reviewed the wiring diagrams in preparation for ordering a VDM and trying to add this to my truck. The auto leveling sensors we all have on the LH side of the truck are indeed used for onboard scales as well. There is a slightly different wiring harness that routes their signal to the VDM instead of the HCM for the head lights as it currently is. Now the the really unfortunate part is that the scales system uses two more of those same sensors installed on the RH side of the truck. We lack those completely, but it appears at least portions of the wiring exist.

So I would say it is technically possible to add scales, the scope of work makes it more than it’s worth for me. At a minimum we need: VDM, 2 additional height sensors, some wiring harnesses or custom wiring, and a boat load of programming.

The height sensors get calibrated using FDRS so it might be possible to address suspension changes by recalibrating after changing a suspension part.

Not quite relevant to the thread, but I have a question about this.

I am adding the LHS ride height sensors to my 501A with projector headlamp swap to get the auto-level. Does this mean that my ride height sensors will not work unless I calibrate them with FDRS? I am not adding a VDM, I am wiring the ride height sensors directly to the HCM as is done with all 502A trucks without CCD/scales

 

[Snakebitten]

@dolsen

When you scan with Forscan or FDRS, do you not discover a VDM?

It's mounted on the driver's side underbelly in plain view if you lay on your side.

 

[dolsen]

@dolsen

When you scan with Forscan or FDRS, do you not discover a VDM?

It's mounted on the driver's side underbelly in plain view if you lay on your side.

No, I do not have a VDM. I have compared my as-builts against other trucks with projector headlamps from the factory that also do not have a VDM.

My truck did not come with projector headlamps, it came with LED reflector headlamps. I swapped the projector headlamps in myself

 

[mrtull]

So reading this thread makes me feel like a kindergartener in a Calculus class!! {At least I think I'd be a smart Kinder } So I'm going to ask what may be stupid questions. I've got a 2022 Build2 XLT, and reviewing the order guide, smart scales should be an option:

It makes no reference to CCD or Adjustable headlights, neither of which are available for the XLT (I think). Does this mean the wiring should be in place on all trucks (it's listed as optional for the XL also)? Assuming it's legitimately an option, I'm curious as to why the upper trims have requirements but the lower trims do not.

It seems everyone posting is Lariat or higher (I've been wrong before) so I don't know if anyone has chimed in with an XLT. Its the one feature that was not on any of the XLT in stock (and I did not want to play order Roulette) but the nearly sole purpose for having a truck is towing my RV. Is it even fathomable to retrofit an XLT? Remember, everywhere is walking distance if you have the time!

 

[dolsen]

So reading this thread makes me feel like a kindergartener in a Calculus class!! {At least I think I'd be a smart Kinder } So I'm going to ask what may be stupid questions. I've got a 2022 Build2 XLT, and reviewing the order guide, smart scales should be an option:

It makes no reference to CCD or Adjustable headlights, neither of which are available for the XLT (I think). Does this mean the wiring should be in place on all trucks (it's listed as optional for the XL also)? Assuming it's legitimately an option, I'm curious as to why the upper trims have requirements but the lower trims do not.

It seems everyone posting is Lariat or higher (I've been wrong before) so I don't know if anyone has chimed in with an XLT. Its the one feature that was not on any of the XLT in stock (and I did not want to play order Roulette) but the nearly sole purpose for having a truck is towing my RV. Is it even fathomable to retrofit an XLT? Remember, everywhere is walking distance if you have the time!

I'm totally guessing here, but I wouldn't be surprised if the scales were originally an option separate from CCD, using 4 ride heights sensors (1 at each wheel), but due to parts shortages, these were largely "deleted".

Like I said, that's just pure speculation on my part

EDIT: apparently it is still available for the 23's on every trim level

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm totally guessing here, but I wouldn't be surprised if the scales were originally an option separate from CCD, using 4 ride heights sensors (1 at each wheel), but due to parts shortages, these were largely "deleted".

Like I said, that's just pure speculation on my part

EDIT: apparently it is still available for the 23's on every trim level

Originally Scales and CCD options were similar to Max Tow and HDPP.

You can get Max Tow without HDPP
But you can't get HDPP without Max Tow.

You could get Scales without CCD, but you had to choose scales to get CCD.

If that's not the case any longer I suspect it's because Ford came up with rear height sensors that were independent of the CCD height sensor that is encased in the shock absorber casing. I have seen pictures of rear height sensors that are lever actuated very similarly to the front suspension height sensors. So that supports the idea of two different approaches to rear height sensors.

 

[dolsen]

Originally Scales and CCD options were similar to Max Tow and HDPP.

You can get Max Tow without HDPP
But you can't get HDPP without Max Tow.

You could get Scales without CCD, but you had to choose scales to get CCD.

If that's not the case any longer I suspect it's because Ford came up with rear height sensors that were independent of the CCD height sensor that is encased in the shock absorber casing. I have seen pictures of rear height sensors that are lever actuated very similarly to the front suspension height sensors. So that supports the idea of two different approaches to rear height sensors.

Yea you’re probably right. There are left and right side, front and rear ride height sensors for these trucks. So there are ride height sensors for all 4 corners. And they’re all ML3Z part numbers, so I’m guessing that means they’ve been around since the 21’s came out.

The lever style ride height sensors are what the trucks without scales/CCD with projector LED headlamps use for the auto level function

I haven’t looked at a wiring diagram, but I bet those 4 ride height sensors (without CCD but with VDM) along with the scales specific tail lights are how the non CCD scales would work

 

[ROBB1]

Yea you’re probably right. There are left and right side, front and rear ride height sensors for these trucks. So there are ride height sensors for all 4 corners. And they’re all ML3Z part numbers, so I’m guessing that means they’ve been around since the 21’s came out.

The lever style ride height sensors are what the trucks without scales/CCD with projector LED headlamps use for the auto level function

I haven’t looked at a wiring diagram, but I bet those 4 ride height sensors (without CCD but with VDM) along with the scales specific tail lights are how the non CCD scales would work

In the F150 non-ccd or scales, there are only two height sensors. One front and one rear both on the drivers side. They send a analog signal to the HCM for leveling. No VDM.

CCD or Scales get 4 sensors (the sensors are different for CCD vs non-CCD) they feed into the VDM, they are calibrated in the VDM, and for leveling the HCM gets the "height" info over the CAN bus from the VDM.

 

[Snakebitten]

Well there you have it!

Great information. Thanks

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