Installed Transfer Switch in House

[Yves]

I've been reading different threads for a year now and I've finally decided to join. First thanks to all of you who got me informed in this thread. We ran out of power last weeks so I did used my Powerboost to feed my house via multiples power cords... Now I want a real generator breakers panel!! My son has one at his house and uses a Firman generator which has a bonded neutral. Yesterday, I went and tried my 7.2 KW and YES it works. He has a SIEMENS EQ Load Center, generator panel. On the picture the main panel is connected on the left hand side of the panel.

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[Gros Ventre]

You know... I don't need an "Emergency Panel" with neutral switching. I have a house with more than the 8-10-12 breaker slots that are provided by these "Emergency Panels." If one of these companies would provide a full up panel (say 30 or 40 breaker slots), I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Having to limit myself to an Emergency Panel with the typical 8 slots just doesn't get me where I need to be. In my home a small generator (eg 3 kW electric output) runs most things except: Hotwater Heater, Dryer, & Oven. Hence the only reason I need some kind of Emergency Panel is to be able to run these 3 larger loads. The 7.2 kW generator in my PowerBoost will run everything I need... If I could. Since it requries the neutral switching panel I have to install more wiring and panels just because of how Ford setup their generator. What I would like Ford to do is provide a procedure to enable shifting their generator to a Floating Neutral. This is really the simple solution to powering a home from your PowerBoost. I have pulsed Ford twice via my dealer and every time they come back with some kind of workaround. But they sidestep changing their generator (in other words a bureaucratic non-answer). Come on Ford: electrically this only requires shifitng one wire in the PowerBoost. Tell us where to do this.

 

[Yves]

You know... I don't need an "Emergency Panel" with neutral switching. I have a house with more than the 8-10-12 breaker slots that are provided by these "Emergency Panels." If one of these companies would provide a full up panel (say 30 or 40 breaker slots), I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Having to limit myself to an Emergency Panel with the typical 8 slots just doesn't get me where I need to be. In my home a small generator (eg 3 kW electric output) runs most things except: Hotwater Heater, Dryer, & Oven. Hence the only reason I need some kind of Emergency Panel is to be able to run these 3 larger loads. The 7.2 kW generator in my PowerBoost will run everything I need... If I could. Since it requries the neutral switching panel I have to install more wiring and panels just because of how Ford setup their generator. What I would like Ford to do is provide a procedure to enable shifting their generator to a Floating Neutral. This is really the simple solution to powering a home from your PowerBoost. I have pulsed Ford twice via my dealer and every time they come back with some kind of workaround. But they sidestep changing their generator (in other words a bureaucratic non-answer). Come on Ford: electrically this only requires shifitng one wire in the PowerBoost. Tell us where to do this.

From what I understand neutral bonding is safer than floating ground for a generator. If you look at Siemens they have several generator panels for bonding ground and some support 34 single breakers so 68 if you install twin breakers. Depending on the model, the panel could be for 30, 60, 80 or 100A.

https://franklinempire.com/media/do...f893236f09aee5b96cc7c5bf08bb0e4ec3547e630.pdf

I hope the link works

 

[Gros Ventre]

The issue of safety for Floating Neutral vs Bonded Neutral is moot. They are each as safe as the other. There are many floating neutral portable generators on the market, I have one, it works just fine if the rest of the house set up is in accordance the NEC. A bonded neutral generator is required by the OSHA rules (for independent jobsite use). This is because if you're using electrical tools on the generator when a gound occurs on your jobsite you want the generator to sense it and shutdown the circuits. To say that it is safer than a floating neutral ignores the separate requirements of the NEC which should govern when you hookup your generator to a house (which already has a neutral-ground bonding & you don't want two of these). The fix remains electrically simple: Ford publish a method to convert the PowerBoost generator to a floating neutral. Note that Ford knows how to do this: the 2.0 kW generator in their non-PowerBoost F-150s is a floating neutral setup.

 

[Gros Ventre]

That link works... but once again they don't offer what is a drop in unit. Their max input amps is 100... Most houses built or setup electrically in the past 20 years are 200 amp input, as is mine.

 

[JEB]

From what I understand neutral bonding is safer than floating ground for a generator. If you look at Siemens they have several generator panels for bonding ground and some support 34 single breakers so 68 if you install twin breakers. Depending on the model, the panel could be for 30, 60, 80 or 100A.

https://franklinempire.com/media/do...f893236f09aee5b96cc7c5bf08bb0e4ec3547e630.pdf

I hope the link works

Reliance Controls also makes transfer switches/subpanels compatible with bonded neutral generators. http://www.reliancecontrols.com/x-series-panel-link.aspx?pl=x_series&c=&f= I have one. Works great with the Powerboost for emergencies.

 

[Yves]

The issue of safety for Floating Neutral vs Bonded Neutral is moot. They are each as safe as the other. There are many floating neutral portable generators on the market, I have one, it works just fine if the rest of the house set up is in accordance the NEC. A bonded neutral generator is required by the OSHA rules (for independent jobsite use). This is because if you're using electrical tools on the generator when a gound occurs on your jobsite you want the generator to sense it and shutdown the circuits. To say that it is safer than a floating neutral ignores the separate requirements of the NEC which should govern when you hookup your generator to a house (which already has a neutral-ground bonding & you don't want two of these). The fix remains electrically simple: Ford publish a method to convert the PowerBoost generator to a floating neutral. Note that Ford knows how to do this: the 2.0 kW generator in their non-PowerBoost F-150s is a floating neutral setup.

I agree with you when they are connected to the house safety is the same. But when you use the generator as a standalone source of power as when you feed power for tools, the bonded neutral is safer and this is the only reason I was saying the bonded neutral generator is safer. I guess everyone has their point of view on this. For me being able to use my truck generator in any configuration in a secure manner will always prime.

 

[Yves]

Reliance Controls also makes transfer switches/subpanels compatible with bonded neutral generators. http://www.reliancecontrols.com/x-series-panel-link.aspx?pl=x_series&c=&f= I have one. Works great with the Powerboost for emergencies.

I did look at Reliance and Generac which look like as both excellent products and do work with bonded neutral. I only wanted to share different products, configuration and tested with the 7.2KW.

 

[JEB]

I did look at Reliance and Generac which look like as both excellent products and do work with bonded neutral. I only wanted to share different products, configuration and tested with the 7.2KW.

Understood. I was agreeing with you about bonded neutral. It is getting more and more popular and as a result more manufacturers are offering that option in their transfer switches. I didn’t see one from Generac, however. My electrician is a Generac dealer and when I told him that the Powerboost was bonded-neutral, he changed my quote to a Reliance Control and installed that instead. No issues at all hooking the Powerboost to it.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Got it. When used as a stand alone at a worksite when there is no gound (unlike a house) the bonded neutral setup is safer, and is required by OSHA. Appreciate the sharing of the source. Had they had a 200 Amp panel I might have split for one since that would solve my need. Still, Ford's reluctance to do anything but offer work arounds to a simple problem doesn't sit well with me. Had I known of the bonded neutral issue I would not have purchased that $750 option on my F-150 Powerboost. I already have a home generator that powers everything but my three larger loads.

 

[Yves]

Understood. I was agreeing with you about bonded neutral. It is getting more and more popular and as a result more manufacturers are offering that option in their transfer switches. I didn’t see one from Generac, however. My electrician is a Generac dealer and when I told him that the Powerboost was bonded-neutral, he changed my quote to a Reliance Control and installed that instead. No issues at all hooking the Powerboost to it.

I thought the Generac 6854 and 6894 were good for bonded neutral and were sucessfully installed by others in this thread but I may have misread...oups

 

[JEB]

I thought the Generac 6854 and 6894 were good for bonded neutral and were sucessfully installed by others in this thread but I may have misread...oups

They might be. I know the 6854 works with generators with GFCI protected outlets.

EDIT: Digging a little further, you’re correct—they are good for bonded neutral.

 

[jeffcrum]

Got it. When used as a stand alone at a worksite when there is no gound (unlike a house) the bonded neutral setup is safer, and is required by OSHA. Appreciate the sharing of the source. Had they had a 200 Amp panel I might have split for one since that would solve my need. Still, Ford's reluctance to do anything but offer work arounds to a simple problem doesn't sit well with me. Had I known of the bonded neutral issue I would not have purchased that $750 option on my F-150 Powerboost. I already have a home generator that powers everything but my three larger loads.

I get everything you said there. But, I still would have spent it on the 7.2.

We are retiring soon and about to build our 'final' house.

It will include solar with batteries. I'll use the truck to supplement on cloudy days.

I absolutely love the quietness of the generator (truck) and flexibility for other uses.

Not trying to 'save the planet' as much as I am wanting to be self sufficient and not under anyone's control. But, if it does both, it is all

 

[Gros Ventre]

Hey, got it... So when you build your home look around for a main electric panel that is a neutral switching panel. I've now seen one that can be up to 100 amp service. Common home service is 200 amps. Had I known about the neutral switching issue, when I wired my home I'd have simply put in one of those from the start, if I could find one. If you cannot find one for your home electrical service at the rated amperage, you should discuss the idea of inserting a three pole breaker as the feed into the panel. I do not know if this meets the NEC, thus the conversation with a quaified electrician. However if it does comply with the NEC being able to open that breaker (with all three wires) when you want to get power from your truck, that'll satisfy the neutral switching requirement since when you attach the truck to the house the neutral will be bonded to the ground through the truck wiring and the ground will be grounded through the house. But check your electrical codes, some require the neutral-ground bond outside of the house while some have it inside the panel.

 

[Ajzride]

If you want to just switch the entire house over to your truck and pick and choose which circuits to power, you need a 4 pole transfer switch like this one:

https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...e5TrVLwF11HiJvr8aBZZACxwXAqcbvABoCfoIQAvD_BwE

You will still need need an enclosure and handle for that one.... so you are creeping into the price of another generator at that point, but you can get what you want.

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